General Discussion

Cirsium

(2,750 posts)

88. True?

Sat Jun 28, 2025, 03:11 PM

Jun 28

Yes, the ruling class response to people's (inevitable) dissatisfaction with Capitalism is Fascism, We are seeing that here in the US now.

Capitalists don't believe in a "free market," they strive for monopoly and government favoritism. All governments under Capitalism pick winners and losers.

"True Capitalism" is purely imaginary. Capitalism is a historical phenomenon, not a religion, and it develops and evolves over time, just as Feudalism did.

If you are going to call Capitalism "Socialism for the rich" can we then call Socialism "Capitalism for the poor?" Words lose meaning when we throw them around like that. The word is not the thing. I am talking about a system with social relations based on commodities for exchange, private ownership of the means of production; and wage labor. That is a plus or minus 500 year phenomenon, a stage in the development of human productive forces, something that actually exists no matter what we call it.

Again, the word is not the thing and Capitalism is not a religion. Yes, there is an ideology associated with Capitalism, and there are various beliefs about it - free markets, supply and demand, the invisible hand and other such fantasies . But as is the case with slavery and racism, first comes the economic drive then comes the ideology that is manufactured to justify and rationalize that economic behavior.

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The differences between Socialism & Communism [View all] TacosUberAlles Jun 27 OP

communism comes from Marx. creon Jun 27 #1

True of all politics Cirsium Jun 27 #9

I agree creon Jun 27 #35

I Mentioned Yesterday Mr.Bee Jun 27 #2

Socialism is the strategy for future communist regimes to lure the people to vote for them Escurumbele Jun 27 #3

Russia, Venezuela, and many other Latin American countries ? vanessa_ca Jun 27 #4

Russia was never Communist TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #6

Both Russia and China were communist societies but they both failed because communism... brush Jun 27 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #15

I do disagree TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #16

The video never named a successful and extant socialist society as there... brush Jun 27 #19

I'm not here to debate things TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #40

Interesting thread and that's why so many voices on this issue. Exactly what a good discussion is. Deuxcents Jun 27 #52

"Workers of the world, unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains." TheRickles Jun 27 #28

We (I live in Sweden) are NOT democratic socialist nations here in the Nordics. Celerity Jun 29 #120

Thank you. The emphasis should be on "democratic", not "social(ist)". TheRickles Jun 30 #125

This 👆 bamagal62 Jun 27 #57

Communism, like socialism, liberalism, conservatism, etc comes in many different flavors. Ping Tung Jun 27 #5

There has never been a successful socialist or communist society that has thrived and is still extant. brush Jun 27 #7

Ok but what does that have to do with Zohan Mumdani TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #41

The tread was about the seeming confusion of socialism vs social democracies. in Europe. brush Jun 27 #43

Wellp maybe I should've been more clear then I guess TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #45

His name is Zohran Mamdani. nt SunSeeker Jun 27 #62

Repeat after me Cirsium Jun 27 #10

Great summary! thought crime Jun 27 #11

What communist countries have succeeded? nt SunSeeker Jun 27 #14

Oh I dunno Cirsium Jun 27 #22

So you can't name a single successful communist country. Got it. SunSeeker Jun 27 #51

I did Cirsium Jun 28 #80

No you didn't. Name one. nt SunSeeker Jun 28 #83

Why? Cirsium Jun 28 #86

So you think success is a vicious socialist dictatorship where the vast majority of people live in oppressed poverty. SunSeeker Jun 29 #97

No Cirsium Jun 29 #103

A "vicious dictatorship where the vast majority of people live in oppressed poverty" perfectly describes Cuba. SunSeeker Jun 29 #114

Political parties? Cirsium Jun 29 #119

Your 2008 opinion piece from "Liberation School" does not dispute anything the 2025 Harvard report says. SunSeeker Jun 29 #122

Did you read it? Cirsium Jun 30 #124

Yes. There is nothing that can help that piece of dated propaganda. nt SunSeeker Jun 30 #126

+1 leftstreet Jun 27 #17

Name one successful and still thriving and extant socialist cournty. brush Jun 27 #20

Sure Cirsium Jun 27 #23

Heehee. Yugoslavia, China, Warsaw Pac. Please. Yugoslavia doesn't exist anymore and China is capitalist. brush Jun 27 #27

Of course Cirsium Jun 27 #30

I added to my post that I guess you didn't see. What about the many... brush Jun 27 #31

No Cirsium Jun 27 #33

What do you call making a profit from time, laboer and materials spent? brush Jun 27 #37

Profit Cirsium Jun 27 #42

what do you call it, bartering, trading, what? brush Jun 27 #44

ummmm Cirsium Jun 27 #49

Exchanging your skills for money is part of a capitalist economy. SunSeeker Jun 27 #54

Of course Cirsium Jun 28 #79

Slaves can be part of socialist economies as well. Nazis used slave labor in their socialist economy. SunSeeker Jun 28 #84

The Nazi party was not socialist Cirsium Jun 28 #85

Yes it was. SunSeeker Jun 29 #99

Huh Cirsium Jun 29 #102

Excellent post. Nt iemanja Jun 29 #116

Don't old cars produce significantly more pollution than new ones? MichMan Jun 27 #56

Yes Cirsium Jun 27 #58

China isn't' socialist or communist anymore iemanja Jun 27 #55

Crazy Cirsium Jun 27 #59

China scored below the US and Russia on the Global Health Security index. SunSeeker Jun 28 #65

Yep, they copied Yugos SEZ and scaled it and still allowed rich to take from poor and middle uponit7771 Jun 28 #70

Do you know anyone who lives or lived in China? iemanja Jun 28 #67

China is a socialist country, according to the Webster's Dictionary definition of socialism. SunSeeker Jun 28 #63

There is a great deal of free enterprise in China iemanja Jun 28 #66

There is nothing free about the enterprise in China. It is all state controlled. SunSeeker Jun 28 #68

"subject to the whims" .... That's 100% of all US corps if "whims" is the deciding factor. China has SOE cause they have uponit7771 Jun 28 #72

That simply isn't true. Nt iemanja Jun 28 #90

It is sadly very true. See my below reply to your post about Chinese billionaires. SunSeeker Jun 29 #98

Here is a list of Chinese billionaires and the industries they own iemanja Jun 28 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author SunSeeker Jun 29 #95

All of these billionares exist because they serve the CCP's interests. SunSeeker Jun 29 #96

I don't doubt that iemanja Jun 29 #113

Socialism is defined as government ownership of the means of production. That's China. SunSeeker Jun 29 #117

Webster is not the authority iemanja Jun 29 #123

You can't make definitions up. Words have meaning. SunSeeker Jun 30 #127

Private corps and SEO exist in China it's NO LONGER a socialist country at all. uponit7771 Jun 28 #71

The "private" corps in China are still controlled by the CCP. SunSeeker Jun 28 #82

There are corps that are not directly controlled like SOEs that are majority owned by CCP gov. uponit7771 Jun 29 #100

Exceptions don't make the rule. SunSeeker Jun 29 #101

Private Chinese corp's are ***NOT*** the exception uponit7771 Jun 29 #104

So did fascist Germany iemanja Jun 29 #115

Hitler's Germany managed to combine socialism with fascism. SunSeeker Jun 29 #118

Yugoslavia was text book hybrid and even came up with idea of SEZ that China repeated uponit7771 Jun 28 #69

Exactly. How well has Capitalism worked? mjvpi Jun 27 #21

This message was self-deleted by its author uponit7771 Jun 28 #73

Yep, I. Other its are called social Democrats uponit7771 Jun 28 #74

Seems to me both Russia and China, the two large examples of socialism... brush Jun 27 #46

From the movie Mank ITAL Jun 27 #12

Bullshit. She does a terrible job of explaining what socialism and communism are, let alone their differences. SunSeeker Jun 27 #13

Are you ok? TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #18

Are you ok? SunSeeker Jun 27 #26

Are you the manager? TacosUberAlles Jun 27 #39

Lies are not kindness. SunSeeker Jun 27 #47

It's not educational if it's not true. beaglelover Jun 27 #48

Democratic Socialism is more of a hybrid of what works. mjvpi Jun 27 #24

Bernie's "Democratic Socialism" is just well regulated capitalism. SunSeeker Jun 27 #53

***EXACTLY!!*** I call it Caged Capitalism which is mostly common sense uponit7771 Jun 28 #77

But if the "socialism" part is left out it's not edgy or trendy. BannonsLiver Jun 29 #110

It's the naming, they shouldn't have issues with terms they call themselves uponit7771 Jun 28 #76

Thank you. This is the best explanation and clarification I've seen on this thread so far. TheRickles Jun 27 #29

So nostalgic Cirsium Jun 27 #34

Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland are all succesful, well regulated capitalist countries. SunSeeker Jun 27 #50

Maybe Cirsium Jun 27 #60

Nonsense. nt SunSeeker Jun 27 #61

👆🏿👆🏿👆🏿 LAST PARAGRAPH!! uponit7771 Jun 28 #78

Thank you, very well put and explained. The video of the young woman was BS. brush Jun 27 #38

Sounds like social Democrats .. they should call themselves that uponit7771 Jun 28 #75

Don't forget that Nazis were/are a form of socialist, it's even in the name... AntiFascist Jun 27 #25

Ludicrous Cirsium Jun 28 #81

For years some of us have been calling it socialism for the rich... AntiFascist Jun 28 #87

True? Cirsium Jun 28 #88

I could say the same thing about Communism... AntiFascist Jun 28 #89

No Cirsium Jun 28 #94

Exactly my point... AntiFascist Jun 29 #106

Huh? Cirsium Jun 29 #107

Exactly my point again... AntiFascist Jun 29 #108

I guess I don't understand Cirsium Jun 29 #109

Directly quoting from Google AI... AntiFascist Jun 29 #111

Pretty funny Cirsium Jun 29 #112

ism's OC375 Jun 27 #32

Idealism? Cirsium Jun 29 #121

I find that in the US, snot Jun 27 #36

I must express my admiration for your choice of username--- Jack Valentino Jun 28 #64

Hi & thank you XD TacosUberAlles Jun 28 #92

Telling someone who says they're Communist that it doesn't work... gulliver Jun 28 #91

The 1950s called Cirsium Jun 29 #105