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Hekate

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158. The America of 2025 is not the America of 1948, as well....

Mon Jul 28, 2025, 02:47 AM

Jul 28

The America of 2025 is not the America of 1948, as well…

When my brother and I were born in California, he in 1948 and I in 1947, we grew up in a nation that had a legitimate claim to righteous heroism. The US played a large part in defeating the Axis, and the crimes of our enemies were not a secret from us. The country we were born into was having a surge of optimism.

When my husband was born in a shattered Europe to older parents who had lost nearly every relative and barely knew each other when they were introduced and decided to get married, Israel was the shining hope.

Pragmatically, his parents chose to take their 3 little boys to America in 1953, to NYC where my MIL’s surviving sister & husband had already moved. But Israel… the post-war founders of Israel also had a legitimate claim to righteous heroism. Israel shone like a beacon…

Here we are in 2025. In our household we understand one another — our hearts are broken. We each have a sense of an ending of something we held dear. For me, the America I thought I knew. For him, the Israel founded in such hope when he was only a year old. The loss is double for him, really — a naturalized citizen since early childhood, served in the US Air Force during the Vietnam era, built an entire life here.

And to whom do I turn to sort out this sorrow? Certainly not DU.

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The fall of Israel [View all] EndlessWire Jul 27 OP

There are many Israelis and Jews worldwide who decry this biophile Jul 27 #1

Haven't seen any public protests here in the states. Have you? I've only seen how pro-Palestine protesters are ARRESTED Exp Jul 27 #70

Almost every Jewish person I know in real life has been protesting Israel for decades. yardwork Jul 28 #169

I said that they are not out protesting! With signs, in large organized groups. nt Exp Jul 28 #179

They certainly are! yardwork Jul 28 #181

That is inaccurate in so many areas while trying to create an argument that seems plausible. No one is buying it. We Exp Jul 28 #233

lol! You can't think of any example of how it's wrong? yardwork Jul 28 #240

Yes, and many were at the student protests that were banned and criminalized. Hope none of them are in jail.. AloeVera Jul 27 #74

Or at least some. enid602 Jul 28 #202

Many? OrangeJoe Jul 28 #159

The never ending problem in the Middle East. travelingthrulife Jul 28 #166

Not really true OrangeJoe Jul 28 #197

Ummm...not sure of that...just a few hundred miles up the road in Syria in WWI via the Ottoman Govt. LeftInTX Jul 28 #250

Pics of the Armenian Genocide? N/T AloeVera Jul 28 #251

Yes LeftInTX Jul 28 #252

You're casting a very wide net OrangeJoe Jul 29 #266

Armenia didn't exist back then! Palestinians and Armenians were part of the Ottoman Empire. LeftInTX Jul 29 #274

Interesting and informative OrangeJoe Jul 29 #279

I saw the polls and tend to agree with you. I follow the Times of Israel and have seen some of their polls. LeftInTX Jul 29 #280

Here's an interesting article: LeftInTX Jul 29 #282

Seems the establshent of Israel as a Jewsh state did it. The next thought that comes to mind... brush Jul 29 #278

I think it's more than that. Heck Egypt attacked Israel numerous times. LeftInTX Jul 29 #281

Perhaps just a return to the region by Jews from other lands after the war... brush Jul 29 #283

I don't trust any polls involving Netanyahu's government. yardwork Jul 28 #171

Not the case here OrangeJoe Jul 28 #198

First I hear that everybody in Israel is on board with Netanyahu, then... yardwork Jul 28 #239

Not sure what you are asking OrangeJoe Jul 28 #247

The government of Israel KT2000 Jul 27 #2

Why? RobinA Jul 28 #216

Well, maybe, but I am inclined to believe it started with the 3rd creature. :) Dan Jul 28 #220

Cold dispassion? iemanja Jul 30 #287

We need to stop the amount of our dollars given to Israel Duncanpup Jul 27 #3

You forgot to add Abortions... which are legal and funded by the government, which we fund. William Gustafson Jul 27 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author Rebl2 Jul 28 #168

It's important to check your sources and facts before you post Mossfern Jul 28 #186

We need to stop the billions in tax deals to billionaires. yardwork Jul 28 #184

Consequences for the obvious war crimes and ethnic cleansng will be felt for decades. brush Jul 27 #4

Why are Jews held responsible for the actions of Israel? sarisataka Jul 27 #7

Tradition JoseBalow Jul 27 #10

It's unfortunate, not fair, but Netanyahu's/IDF war crimes are seen by the world which notices... brush Jul 27 #12

I do not disagree with your evaluation of Netanyahu sarisataka Jul 27 #24

I see what you're saying. Perhaps it's because the US is complicit in supplying the weapons used by... brush Jul 27 #31

+ 100 the US supplied the weapons. nt cliffside Jul 27 #53

Wait, wait.... Mossfern Jul 28 #189

"Is the US now a Jewish nation?" What are you talking about? brush Jul 28 #205

The suggestion that the fabulously wealthy Arab nations need our help is laughable. yardwork Jul 28 #190

Nice summary of talking points. AloeVera Jul 28 #200

What talking points? yardwork Jul 28 #241

Ridiculous. Oil wealth does not buy them the superior US weapons that Israel uses to... brush Jul 28 #207

Israel doesn't have oil wealth. yardwork Jul 28 #242

Please. Stop degending ethnic cleansing, starvation and killing people daily who line up trying to get food and water. brush Jul 28 #243

Where in my posts did I defend what Israel is doing? yardwork Jul 28 #249

Your reply to my post. brush Jul 29 #262

The same is exactly true of us in the U.S. yardwork Jul 28 #185

I say none of that. Why would you think I would agree with that crap? brush Jul 28 #208

I think that one reason might be BadgerMom Jul 27 #21

Judaism is also a religion sarisataka Jul 27 #26

Isreel itself conflates. AIPAC conflates. The new definition of anti-semitism conflates. AloeVera Jul 27 #76

" Non-Israeli Jews really should look at their unwavering support for Israel" sarisataka Jul 27 #78

Not one mainstream US Jewish organization or leader spoke out during the war. AloeVera Jul 27 #112

This seems to fly in the face of what was said about the protests supporting the Palestinians sarisataka Jul 27 #114

Lol. I said mainstream. You know, those representing - the mainstream. n/t AloeVera Jul 27 #117

So we have changed the subject from "non Israeli Jews" sarisataka Jul 27 #122

Surely you know the meaning of mainstream and the role of leaders in a community? AloeVera Jul 27 #127

Thankfully, my generation overwhelmingly doesn't. vanessa_ca Jul 27 #132

That is so encouraging! AloeVera Jul 27 #137

*Every* action? Mossfern Jul 28 #192

Why do they need to? Violet_Crumble Jul 28 #244

They don't Mossfern Jul 28 #246

Let's talk about these 'purity tests' Violet_Crumble Jul 28 #253

OMG! Mossfern Jul 28 #254

I'm thinking...despite the fact that Israel Does Have a Mixed Population w Non-Jews it Still is The Jewish State, ... electric_blue68 Jul 27 #25

But it is wrong to hold all Muslims responsible for mcar Jul 27 #83

I never held all Muslims responsible for Islamic terrorists actions. I hold Netanyahu, and certain IDF troops... electric_blue68 Jul 27 #107

Israelis can be held responsible for the actions of their government Bettie Jul 27 #32

Not all Jews are Israeli sarisataka Jul 27 #40

I was speaking to my own opinions Bettie Jul 27 #43

True iemanja Jul 28 #157

Jews are not responsible for the actions of Israel but TomSlick Jul 27 #38

It is a unique cause and effect, wouldn't you agree? sarisataka Jul 27 #42

Of course. TomSlick Jul 27 #61

When you put it that way sarisataka Jul 27 #80

Antisemitism has existed for centuries. Jews have never brought it on themselves. TomSlick Jul 27 #109

You seemed to imply there was dual loyalty: sarisataka Jul 27 #110

The attacks against Muslims after 9/11 was wrong mcar Jul 27 #86

It's not at all difficult to say. It is self evident. TomSlick Jul 27 #111

No, this happened with Arabs after 9-11. Eko Jul 27 #79

IIRC, there was a lot of opposition to Islamophobia sarisataka Jul 27 #87

And there is a lot of opposition to antisemitism going on now as well. Eko Jul 27 #97

I wouldn't say a lot of opposition sarisataka Jul 27 #100

How many of our elected party members have not called out antisemitism? Eko Jul 27 #101

I don't know, do you have the numbers? sarisataka Jul 27 #106

Exactly what are basing your opinion on? Eko Jul 27 #113

I am basing my opinion on the number of times I read "Antisemitism is wrong" sarisataka Jul 27 #116

Of course antisemitism is wrong. Eko Jul 27 #118

I wish more could make that definitive statement sarisataka Jul 27 #120

I have seen people say that antisemitism is on the rise in part due to the actions of Israel against Gaza. Eko Jul 27 #125

This!!!! This is it in a nutshell. Well-analyzed and well-said! AloeVera Jul 27 #94

Some have iemanja Jul 30 #288

They shouldn't be EdmondDantes_ Jul 27 #54

Sure but those regular Isrealis are supporting the government in this genocide. erodriguez Jul 27 #130

Easy guess is the same reason that people who are "anti-Israel" are labeled as "anti-semetic" by Israelis. nt Exp Jul 27 #67

??? progressoid Jul 27 #71

I do recall the increase sarisataka Jul 27 #98

And why are Gazans not held responsible for the actions mcar Jul 27 #81

I looks like they are. Eko Jul 27 #103

Yeah they are being brutalized. Their homes are bombed erodriguez Jul 27 #131

Gazans, including children, are enduring collective punishment. thought crime Jul 28 #146

Israel itself conflates criticism of state actions with antisemitism... mike_c Jul 27 #104

Once again, why does the actions of Israel sarisataka Jul 27 #108

no, I don't believe so mike_c Jul 27 #126

They elected Netanyahu and continue to support his genocidal government. Lonestarblue Jul 28 #178

Americans elected Trump and continue to support his horrific border policies. yardwork Jul 28 #183

So "Jews" elected Netanyahu? sarisataka Jul 28 #204

It's completely unreasonable. yardwork Jul 28 #182

Awesome so we can blame all Muslims EllieBC Jul 27 #62

Go ahead if you want to, but it's pretty obvious that the attacks are connected to heinous war crimes against the Gazan brush Jul 27 #69

So you are fine with collective EllieBC Jul 27 #77

I dont think Brush is saying that at all. Eko Jul 27 #82

But it is people here mcar Jul 27 #88

But you were replying back to Brush. Not other people or liberals. Eko Jul 27 #92

Do what you want with your flawed premise. It doesn't change the facts... brush Jul 27 #128

Our complicity in this is horrifying, nauseating. snot Jul 27 #5

the pic Celerity Jul 27 #27

And I'll say again: snot Jul 27 #6

Are Jews responsible for the actions of Israel? sarisataka Jul 27 #8

It seems that some people believe so. Mossfern Jul 27 #14

No one here has said that. Eko Jul 27 #85

This is close Mossfern Jul 27 #90

Not even. Eko Jul 27 #95

CORRECT Skittles Jul 28 #151

that question begs this one/ Are we US citizens responsable for (some of) the effects of the bombs drop on Gaza Vthestate Jul 27 #15

Hells yes we are responsible. erodriguez Jul 27 #134

I spoke of Israel's responsiblity; but since you ask, snot Jul 27 #16

I was thinking not of Israeli Jews sarisataka Jul 27 #28

Well it isn't "Understandable".. It's Vicious, Cha Jul 27 #58

As we are seeing here on this thread mcar Jul 27 #93

I wouldn't use the word "understandable", "predictable" is better. . . Stargleamer Jul 28 #235

The difference being that no one here said the anti-Muslim hate was understandable mcar Jul 28 #248

well among responses listed here in this thread, DiverDave did say. . . Stargleamer Jul 28 #256

Didn't happen after Oct 7 mcar Jul 28 #257

There was literally celebration in the streets sarisataka Jul 29 #264

I believe it had to have been pre-planned mcar Jul 29 #267

It begs the question JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #275

It is chilling mcar Jul 29 #277

Are you for real?? Violet_Crumble Jul 30 #285

Understandable and tragically predictable, yes, snot Aug 3 #291

Its wrong. electric_blue68 Jul 28 #153

It IS understandable DiverDave Jul 28 #155

Out of curiosity, if there was sarisataka Jul 28 #173

Of course DiverDave Jul 28 #174

..To the extent that they support Netanyahu whathehell Jul 27 #34

They did not say that at all. Eko Jul 27 #84

Israelis are responsible for the actions of Israel. erodriguez Jul 27 #141

Do you say this in regards to Muslim EllieBC Jul 27 #63

Why are you speculating about opinions I've never expressed and that are not relevant to the OP? snot Jul 27 #75

Are Muslims responsible for the actions of Islamic terrorists like Hamas? mcar Jul 27 #91

A great OP malaise Jul 27 #9

I remember Donald Rumsfeld's question during the Iraq War? surfered Jul 27 #11

This goes beyond the October 7th attack and the current war on Gaza. lees1975 Jul 27 #13

Ah, but what about the Jewish people who were expelled from "Palestine" Mossfern Jul 27 #19

But why start at that point in history? whathehell Jul 27 #44

So you agree that Mossfern Jul 27 #49

Of course, as were the Caananites.. whathehell Jul 27 #64

Agree Mossfern Jul 27 #65

Your deflection means you approve of the Genocide Brenda Jul 27 #46

Bullshit Mossfern Jul 27 #48

So you say "bullshit" in response Brenda Jul 27 #55

It's all the reply Mossfern Jul 27 #57

I agree.. so there's that. Cha Jul 27 #66

So us Hungarians can go back to the Ural mountain region, claim it as our ancestral homeland AloeVera Jul 27 #50

That's not analogous Mossfern Jul 27 #52

It wasn't Balfour that physically drovebout the Palestinians, burned their villages etc AloeVera Jul 27 #59

Honestly? Mossfern Jul 27 #96

I did not say you condone it. AloeVera Jul 27 #121

I have spoken out Mossfern Jul 27 #129

Then there's things you can do that I can't do AloeVera Jul 28 #209

My rabbi and synagogue have official statements regarding Israel's right wing government Mossfern Jul 28 #211

Not sure how I would know that. AloeVera Jul 28 #212

Why do you think that Jewish people Mossfern Jul 28 #213

You too! AloeVera Jul 28 #214

Where are the Canaanites? The Philistines? Ping Tung Jul 27 #89

There was never a Palestine nor an Israel IbogaProject Jul 27 #60

Palestine is the regional name, it was not the name used for the political states that occupied the area. lees1975 Jul 28 #215

Thank you IbogaProject Jul 28 #218

Yes, the Jewish people were expelled from Palestine by the Romans, the biggest exile occurring after 70 A.D. lees1975 Jul 27 #133

The reality here is the religion that has affected the course of history. lees1975 Jul 27 #139

I think no one here is defending the Romans. thought crime Jul 28 #147

Who could have envisioned that imperialistic colonialism would lead to conflict? snot Jul 27 #22

This is not the best link, but the US State Dept and Trumans advisors did vanessa_ca Jul 27 #143

Post removed Post removed Jul 27 #17

Post removed Post removed Jul 27 #18

Never Again! BidenRocks Jul 27 #20

I always took it to be a brilliant altruistic resolution. mjvpi Jul 27 #99

If we were a just country right now, we'd be showing Netanyahu what we used to do to terrorists. Initech Jul 27 #23

It's almost the whole Congress who keeps voting to give Israel unlimited money womanofthehills Jul 27 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda Jul 27 #51

I hold back because this is the goal of Hamas/Palestinians. To sacrifice their kids in order to discredit Israel Pompoy Jul 27 #29

Do not equate Palestinian victims with Hamas terrorists. Not the same thing. That's like saying... brush Jul 27 #39

That is BS Israeli propaganda and demonization of Palestinians. AloeVera Jul 27 #56

Speaking of bovine excrement Pompoy Jul 28 #162

Lol. You're in a bubble. AloeVera Jul 28 #167

For Israel too Mossfern Jul 28 #195

About Defendant muriel_volestrangler Jul 28 #188

The perpetrators and defenders of the atrocities are "playing the victim" when challenged Ping Tung Jul 28 #193

They love their kids - you can see how loving the father's are to their kids womanofthehills Jul 27 #68

Have you heard of the concept: Blame the victim. Big Blue Marble Jul 28 #201

And I'm saying that the Palestinians share even greater responsibility for this disaster. It's what they want. Pompoy Jul 28 #226

I would substitute "Hamas" for "Palestinians" in your statement Mossfern Jul 28 #232

Oh Please! nt RobinA Jul 28 #221

Where did you hear that crap? Got any links? Violet_Crumble Jul 30 #286

In a normal world, Israel should be treated as a beloved family member suffering Maru Kitteh Jul 27 #30

That's a kind thought. But it's a 77-year old mental health crisis. AloeVera Jul 27 #145

In other words, Israel needs an "intervention." Intractable Jul 28 #163

That is correct, I believe. nt Maru Kitteh Jul 28 #194

Biden gets blamed for everything. EndlessWire Jul 28 #236

In my opinion, Biden should have withheld awesome offensive weapons from the Israelis. Intractable Jul 28 #238

He should of stopped supplying the weapons questionseverything Jul 29 #276

The ultra orthodox on both sides are to blame. multigraincracker Jul 27 #33

History Godot51 Jul 27 #35

We have seen the lengths a man, with no conscience, will go to dlk Jul 27 #36

+1 dalton99a Jul 27 #123

A quick summary about Israel's current government PghTiny Jul 27 #37

Agree Mossfern Jul 27 #41

Thank you. It's very important to keep this in mind. thought crime Jul 28 #148

Bibi agrees with it, let's be real. AloeVera Jul 28 #175

Lol. Gaza was independent, why was it the Gazans who attacked and not the West Bank Palestinians? Pompoy Jul 28 #227

Joining the conversation 22 months into the slaughter, I wonder why now? AloeVera Jul 28 #234

The Israel of 2025 is not the Israel of 1948. OrlandoDem2 Jul 27 #45

The America of 2025 is not the America of 1948, as well.... Hekate Jul 28 #158

It's exactly like Israel of 1948. AloeVera Jul 28 #259

It's not an accident, & not due to one maniacal Bibi Netanhayu...but decades of policies with an intended purpose. Passages Jul 27 #72

Yes. Driving Gazan refugees into the Sinai has been the goal since 1948. AloeVera Jul 27 #140

Sad to say, but that would have worked out better in the long run for everybody. As in the Balkans etc Pompoy Jul 28 #228

Although the Arabs who stayed in Israel are doing ok, doctors, scientists, politicians, tv presenters. Pompoy Jul 28 #229

Just as I thought. AloeVera Jul 28 #237

Lol, lighten up Frances. Obviously Israel hasn't done any ethnic cleansing. That's why things are as they are now. Pompoy Jul 28 #255

"Pleasing the Palestinians" AloeVera Jul 28 #258

Bye Pompoy Jul 28 #260

Ah, a Hungarian whose favorite subject is Israel/Palestine. Pompoy Jul 28 #261

A Canadian citizen for nearly 60 years, actually. AloeVera Jul 30 #284

Bye Felicia Pompoy Jul 30 #290

This is a great post but the speaking out should have started about 22 months ago. Even decades ago. AloeVera Jul 27 #73

The college kids have been screaming about this, but their message was branded by others to be antisemitism. mjvpi Jul 27 #105

What was done to the college protesters was terrible. Branded, criminalized, banned, jailed, lost jobs, deported. AloeVera Jul 27 #115

I agree totally. In my opinion, Biden's blind support of Israeli actions cost the Dems the election. mjvpi Jul 27 #119

Yes, it did. It's awful, but it's the truth AloeVera Jul 27 #135

Respectfully, knowing what Trump was like, knowing he could be no-holds-barred bc 2nd term it was wrong to stay home... electric_blue68 Jul 28 #156

I don't disagree at all! AloeVera Jul 28 #210

Now we can blame those too for Trump. Thank you for admitting that. Pompoy Jul 28 #230

I'll vouch for that. Most young people I know refused to vote for that reason vanessa_ca Jul 28 #161

Thanks for your bravery. AloeVera Jul 28 #191

I cringed when I heard about it. Of all places, he did that in Michigan? vanessa_ca Jul 28 #217

More here: 2004 The plans were all there, you merely need to follow the time line. Passages Jul 27 #102

I've always been in favor of a two state solution. EndlessWire Jul 28 #152

I think it will just be Israel and - Greater Israel. AloeVera Jul 28 #187

Israel is going down a very dangerous road WSHazel Jul 27 #136

Where Would They Go? RobinA Jul 28 #223

Well said UpInArms Jul 27 #138

The US and any other country who have armed Israel is just as responsible for the needless murder going on ImNotGod Jul 27 #142

Hamas had nothing to do with it? Mossfern Jul 27 #144

THEY DID THIS, THEY DID THAT Skittles Jul 28 #150

their reputation is SHIT now Skittles Jul 28 #149

Israel's most recent history Jack Valentino Jul 28 #154

Just in time for Project Esther... live love laugh Jul 28 #160

Israel has certainly fallen in my eyes. Intractable Jul 28 #164

The Nazis blamed Jews for all sorts of nonsense and BS IronLionZion Jul 28 #165

There is no antisemitism on the left. nt LexVegas Jul 28 #170

Is that a joke? yardwork Jul 28 #172

??? lostincalifornia Jul 28 #176

Genocide maliaSmith Jul 28 #177

To be fair, they are also Bettie Jul 29 #271

I'm so old that I remember when there was a country of Palestine. Dafuq happened to it? OMGWTF Jul 28 #180

There was a *territory* called Palestine. Mossfern Jul 28 #196

When was there a country called Palestine? sarisataka Jul 28 #206

The "country" was the UK and if you born before 1920, it was the Ottoman Empire. LeftInTX Jul 29 #263

I'm not anti Israel but sho nuff anti BB, America would turn into same thing under 1 or 3 Trump admins... uponit7771 Jul 28 #199

netanyahoou is clinging to power + resists a 2 state solution + pushes settlements. pansypoo53219 Jul 28 #203

Mandy Patinkin is both articulate and emotional on the blowback to all Jews that Netanyahu is driving. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 28 #219

Truth Mossfern Jul 28 #222

love Mandy Skittles Jul 28 #231

Scorching Truth, Mandy. TY. electric_blue68 Jul 29 #265

So passionate about this Bettie Jul 29 #268

Always loved him and mow love him more. AloeVera Jul 29 #269

You can feel his frustration and anger Bettie Jul 29 #272

Painful even to listen to and watch. His heartbreak is real. AloeVera Jul 29 #273

Like moths to a flame JoseBalow Jul 28 #224

I'm not an anti-semite swong19104 Jul 28 #225

That's a great way to put it. David__77 Jul 28 #245

No need to label it Mossfern Jul 29 #270

You hit the nail on the head EndlessWire. The architects of the Balfour Declaration should have akbacchus_BC Jul 30 #289