General Discussion

OrangeJoe

(535 posts)

266. You're casting a very wide net

Tue Jul 29, 2025, 02:24 AM

Jul 29

Pulling Armenia into this is stretching things a bit. My comment was centered on the fact that historically there wasn't nearly as much the violence in Palestine between Jews & Arabs before 1948. Now is everybody there a bunch of peace loving hippies chanting the words "Give peace a chance", far from it, but the systematic theft of land, denial of human rights, crop destruction, murder and now genocide through starvation, that's all new.

To your statement about the Mazrahis I don't really know the actual breakdown in Israel. The google says it's about 50/50. All I know is there are a heck of a lot of settlers from Europe and the USA kicking Palestinians out of their homes all over the West Bank. I saw and listened to them when I was there (can't say I talked to them because none of them are what you would call a polite listener.)

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vanessa_ca Crunchy Frog

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The fall of Israel [View all] EndlessWire Jul 27 OP

There are many Israelis and Jews worldwide who decry this biophile Jul 27 #1

Haven't seen any public protests here in the states. Have you? I've only seen how pro-Palestine protesters are ARRESTED Exp Jul 27 #70

Almost every Jewish person I know in real life has been protesting Israel for decades. yardwork Jul 28 #169

I said that they are not out protesting! With signs, in large organized groups. nt Exp Jul 28 #179

They certainly are! yardwork Jul 28 #181

That is inaccurate in so many areas while trying to create an argument that seems plausible. No one is buying it. We Exp Jul 28 #233

lol! You can't think of any example of how it's wrong? yardwork Jul 28 #240

Yes, and many were at the student protests that were banned and criminalized. Hope none of them are in jail.. AloeVera Jul 27 #74

Or at least some. enid602 Jul 28 #202

Many? OrangeJoe Jul 28 #159

The never ending problem in the Middle East. travelingthrulife Jul 28 #166

Not really true OrangeJoe Jul 28 #197

Ummm...not sure of that...just a few hundred miles up the road in Syria in WWI via the Ottoman Govt. LeftInTX Jul 28 #250

Pics of the Armenian Genocide? N/T AloeVera Jul 28 #251

Yes LeftInTX Jul 28 #252

You're casting a very wide net OrangeJoe Jul 29 #266

Armenia didn't exist back then! Palestinians and Armenians were part of the Ottoman Empire. LeftInTX Jul 29 #274

Interesting and informative OrangeJoe Jul 29 #279

I saw the polls and tend to agree with you. I follow the Times of Israel and have seen some of their polls. LeftInTX Jul 29 #280

Here's an interesting article: LeftInTX Jul 29 #282

Seems the establshent of Israel as a Jewsh state did it. The next thought that comes to mind... brush Jul 29 #278

I think it's more than that. Heck Egypt attacked Israel numerous times. LeftInTX Jul 29 #281

Perhaps just a return to the region by Jews from other lands after the war... brush Jul 29 #283

I don't trust any polls involving Netanyahu's government. yardwork Jul 28 #171

Not the case here OrangeJoe Jul 28 #198

First I hear that everybody in Israel is on board with Netanyahu, then... yardwork Jul 28 #239

Not sure what you are asking OrangeJoe Jul 28 #247

The government of Israel KT2000 Jul 27 #2

Why? RobinA Jul 28 #216

Well, maybe, but I am inclined to believe it started with the 3rd creature. :) Dan Jul 28 #220

Cold dispassion? iemanja Jul 30 #287

We need to stop the amount of our dollars given to Israel Duncanpup Jul 27 #3

You forgot to add Abortions... which are legal and funded by the government, which we fund. William Gustafson Jul 27 #124

This message was self-deleted by its author Rebl2 Jul 28 #168

It's important to check your sources and facts before you post Mossfern Jul 28 #186

We need to stop the billions in tax deals to billionaires. yardwork Jul 28 #184

Consequences for the obvious war crimes and ethnic cleansng will be felt for decades. brush Jul 27 #4

Why are Jews held responsible for the actions of Israel? sarisataka Jul 27 #7

Tradition JoseBalow Jul 27 #10

It's unfortunate, not fair, but Netanyahu's/IDF war crimes are seen by the world which notices... brush Jul 27 #12

I do not disagree with your evaluation of Netanyahu sarisataka Jul 27 #24

I see what you're saying. Perhaps it's because the US is complicit in supplying the weapons used by... brush Jul 27 #31

+ 100 the US supplied the weapons. nt cliffside Jul 27 #53

Wait, wait.... Mossfern Jul 28 #189

"Is the US now a Jewish nation?" What are you talking about? brush Jul 28 #205

The suggestion that the fabulously wealthy Arab nations need our help is laughable. yardwork Jul 28 #190

Nice summary of talking points. AloeVera Jul 28 #200

What talking points? yardwork Jul 28 #241

Ridiculous. Oil wealth does not buy them the superior US weapons that Israel uses to... brush Jul 28 #207

Israel doesn't have oil wealth. yardwork Jul 28 #242

Please. Stop degending ethnic cleansing, starvation and killing people daily who line up trying to get food and water. brush Jul 28 #243

Where in my posts did I defend what Israel is doing? yardwork Jul 28 #249

Your reply to my post. brush Jul 29 #262

The same is exactly true of us in the U.S. yardwork Jul 28 #185

I say none of that. Why would you think I would agree with that crap? brush Jul 28 #208

I think that one reason might be BadgerMom Jul 27 #21

Judaism is also a religion sarisataka Jul 27 #26

Isreel itself conflates. AIPAC conflates. The new definition of anti-semitism conflates. AloeVera Jul 27 #76

" Non-Israeli Jews really should look at their unwavering support for Israel" sarisataka Jul 27 #78

Not one mainstream US Jewish organization or leader spoke out during the war. AloeVera Jul 27 #112

This seems to fly in the face of what was said about the protests supporting the Palestinians sarisataka Jul 27 #114

Lol. I said mainstream. You know, those representing - the mainstream. n/t AloeVera Jul 27 #117

So we have changed the subject from "non Israeli Jews" sarisataka Jul 27 #122

Surely you know the meaning of mainstream and the role of leaders in a community? AloeVera Jul 27 #127

Thankfully, my generation overwhelmingly doesn't. vanessa_ca Jul 27 #132

That is so encouraging! AloeVera Jul 27 #137

*Every* action? Mossfern Jul 28 #192

Why do they need to? Violet_Crumble Jul 28 #244

They don't Mossfern Jul 28 #246

Let's talk about these 'purity tests' Violet_Crumble Jul 28 #253

OMG! Mossfern Jul 28 #254

I'm thinking...despite the fact that Israel Does Have a Mixed Population w Non-Jews it Still is The Jewish State, ... electric_blue68 Jul 27 #25

But it is wrong to hold all Muslims responsible for mcar Jul 27 #83

I never held all Muslims responsible for Islamic terrorists actions. I hold Netanyahu, and certain IDF troops... electric_blue68 Jul 27 #107

Israelis can be held responsible for the actions of their government Bettie Jul 27 #32

Not all Jews are Israeli sarisataka Jul 27 #40

I was speaking to my own opinions Bettie Jul 27 #43

True iemanja Jul 28 #157

Jews are not responsible for the actions of Israel but TomSlick Jul 27 #38

It is a unique cause and effect, wouldn't you agree? sarisataka Jul 27 #42

Of course. TomSlick Jul 27 #61

When you put it that way sarisataka Jul 27 #80

Antisemitism has existed for centuries. Jews have never brought it on themselves. TomSlick Jul 27 #109

You seemed to imply there was dual loyalty: sarisataka Jul 27 #110

The attacks against Muslims after 9/11 was wrong mcar Jul 27 #86

It's not at all difficult to say. It is self evident. TomSlick Jul 27 #111

No, this happened with Arabs after 9-11. Eko Jul 27 #79

IIRC, there was a lot of opposition to Islamophobia sarisataka Jul 27 #87

And there is a lot of opposition to antisemitism going on now as well. Eko Jul 27 #97

I wouldn't say a lot of opposition sarisataka Jul 27 #100

How many of our elected party members have not called out antisemitism? Eko Jul 27 #101

I don't know, do you have the numbers? sarisataka Jul 27 #106

Exactly what are basing your opinion on? Eko Jul 27 #113

I am basing my opinion on the number of times I read "Antisemitism is wrong" sarisataka Jul 27 #116

Of course antisemitism is wrong. Eko Jul 27 #118

I wish more could make that definitive statement sarisataka Jul 27 #120

I have seen people say that antisemitism is on the rise in part due to the actions of Israel against Gaza. Eko Jul 27 #125

This!!!! This is it in a nutshell. Well-analyzed and well-said! AloeVera Jul 27 #94

Some have iemanja Jul 30 #288

They shouldn't be EdmondDantes_ Jul 27 #54

Sure but those regular Isrealis are supporting the government in this genocide. erodriguez Jul 27 #130

Easy guess is the same reason that people who are "anti-Israel" are labeled as "anti-semetic" by Israelis. nt Exp Jul 27 #67

??? progressoid Jul 27 #71

I do recall the increase sarisataka Jul 27 #98

And why are Gazans not held responsible for the actions mcar Jul 27 #81

I looks like they are. Eko Jul 27 #103

Yeah they are being brutalized. Their homes are bombed erodriguez Jul 27 #131

Gazans, including children, are enduring collective punishment. thought crime Jul 28 #146

Israel itself conflates criticism of state actions with antisemitism... mike_c Jul 27 #104

Once again, why does the actions of Israel sarisataka Jul 27 #108

no, I don't believe so mike_c Jul 27 #126

They elected Netanyahu and continue to support his genocidal government. Lonestarblue Jul 28 #178

Americans elected Trump and continue to support his horrific border policies. yardwork Jul 28 #183

So "Jews" elected Netanyahu? sarisataka Jul 28 #204

It's completely unreasonable. yardwork Jul 28 #182

Awesome so we can blame all Muslims EllieBC Jul 27 #62

Go ahead if you want to, but it's pretty obvious that the attacks are connected to heinous war crimes against the Gazan brush Jul 27 #69

So you are fine with collective EllieBC Jul 27 #77

I dont think Brush is saying that at all. Eko Jul 27 #82

But it is people here mcar Jul 27 #88

But you were replying back to Brush. Not other people or liberals. Eko Jul 27 #92

Do what you want with your flawed premise. It doesn't change the facts... brush Jul 27 #128

Our complicity in this is horrifying, nauseating. snot Jul 27 #5

the pic Celerity Jul 27 #27

And I'll say again: snot Jul 27 #6

Are Jews responsible for the actions of Israel? sarisataka Jul 27 #8

It seems that some people believe so. Mossfern Jul 27 #14

No one here has said that. Eko Jul 27 #85

This is close Mossfern Jul 27 #90

Not even. Eko Jul 27 #95

CORRECT Skittles Jul 28 #151

that question begs this one/ Are we US citizens responsable for (some of) the effects of the bombs drop on Gaza Vthestate Jul 27 #15

Hells yes we are responsible. erodriguez Jul 27 #134

I spoke of Israel's responsiblity; but since you ask, snot Jul 27 #16

I was thinking not of Israeli Jews sarisataka Jul 27 #28

Well it isn't "Understandable".. It's Vicious, Cha Jul 27 #58

As we are seeing here on this thread mcar Jul 27 #93

I wouldn't use the word "understandable", "predictable" is better. . . Stargleamer Jul 28 #235

The difference being that no one here said the anti-Muslim hate was understandable mcar Jul 28 #248

well among responses listed here in this thread, DiverDave did say. . . Stargleamer Jul 28 #256

Didn't happen after Oct 7 mcar Jul 28 #257

There was literally celebration in the streets sarisataka Jul 29 #264

I believe it had to have been pre-planned mcar Jul 29 #267

It begs the question JustAnotherGen Jul 29 #275

It is chilling mcar Jul 29 #277

Are you for real?? Violet_Crumble Jul 30 #285

Understandable and tragically predictable, yes, snot Aug 3 #291

Its wrong. electric_blue68 Jul 28 #153

It IS understandable DiverDave Jul 28 #155

Out of curiosity, if there was sarisataka Jul 28 #173

Of course DiverDave Jul 28 #174

..To the extent that they support Netanyahu whathehell Jul 27 #34

They did not say that at all. Eko Jul 27 #84

Israelis are responsible for the actions of Israel. erodriguez Jul 27 #141

Do you say this in regards to Muslim EllieBC Jul 27 #63

Why are you speculating about opinions I've never expressed and that are not relevant to the OP? snot Jul 27 #75

Are Muslims responsible for the actions of Islamic terrorists like Hamas? mcar Jul 27 #91

A great OP malaise Jul 27 #9

I remember Donald Rumsfeld's question during the Iraq War? surfered Jul 27 #11

This goes beyond the October 7th attack and the current war on Gaza. lees1975 Jul 27 #13

Ah, but what about the Jewish people who were expelled from "Palestine" Mossfern Jul 27 #19

But why start at that point in history? whathehell Jul 27 #44

So you agree that Mossfern Jul 27 #49

Of course, as were the Caananites.. whathehell Jul 27 #64

Agree Mossfern Jul 27 #65

Your deflection means you approve of the Genocide Brenda Jul 27 #46

Bullshit Mossfern Jul 27 #48

So you say "bullshit" in response Brenda Jul 27 #55

It's all the reply Mossfern Jul 27 #57

I agree.. so there's that. Cha Jul 27 #66

So us Hungarians can go back to the Ural mountain region, claim it as our ancestral homeland AloeVera Jul 27 #50

That's not analogous Mossfern Jul 27 #52

It wasn't Balfour that physically drovebout the Palestinians, burned their villages etc AloeVera Jul 27 #59

Honestly? Mossfern Jul 27 #96

I did not say you condone it. AloeVera Jul 27 #121

I have spoken out Mossfern Jul 27 #129

Then there's things you can do that I can't do AloeVera Jul 28 #209

My rabbi and synagogue have official statements regarding Israel's right wing government Mossfern Jul 28 #211

Not sure how I would know that. AloeVera Jul 28 #212

Why do you think that Jewish people Mossfern Jul 28 #213

You too! AloeVera Jul 28 #214

Where are the Canaanites? The Philistines? Ping Tung Jul 27 #89

There was never a Palestine nor an Israel IbogaProject Jul 27 #60

Palestine is the regional name, it was not the name used for the political states that occupied the area. lees1975 Jul 28 #215

Thank you IbogaProject Jul 28 #218

Yes, the Jewish people were expelled from Palestine by the Romans, the biggest exile occurring after 70 A.D. lees1975 Jul 27 #133

The reality here is the religion that has affected the course of history. lees1975 Jul 27 #139

I think no one here is defending the Romans. thought crime Jul 28 #147

Who could have envisioned that imperialistic colonialism would lead to conflict? snot Jul 27 #22

This is not the best link, but the US State Dept and Trumans advisors did vanessa_ca Jul 27 #143

Post removed Post removed Jul 27 #17

Post removed Post removed Jul 27 #18

Never Again! BidenRocks Jul 27 #20

I always took it to be a brilliant altruistic resolution. mjvpi Jul 27 #99

If we were a just country right now, we'd be showing Netanyahu what we used to do to terrorists. Initech Jul 27 #23

It's almost the whole Congress who keeps voting to give Israel unlimited money womanofthehills Jul 27 #47

This message was self-deleted by its author Brenda Jul 27 #51

I hold back because this is the goal of Hamas/Palestinians. To sacrifice their kids in order to discredit Israel Pompoy Jul 27 #29

Do not equate Palestinian victims with Hamas terrorists. Not the same thing. That's like saying... brush Jul 27 #39

That is BS Israeli propaganda and demonization of Palestinians. AloeVera Jul 27 #56

Speaking of bovine excrement Pompoy Jul 28 #162

Lol. You're in a bubble. AloeVera Jul 28 #167

For Israel too Mossfern Jul 28 #195

About Defendant muriel_volestrangler Jul 28 #188

The perpetrators and defenders of the atrocities are "playing the victim" when challenged Ping Tung Jul 28 #193

They love their kids - you can see how loving the father's are to their kids womanofthehills Jul 27 #68

Have you heard of the concept: Blame the victim. Big Blue Marble Jul 28 #201

And I'm saying that the Palestinians share even greater responsibility for this disaster. It's what they want. Pompoy Jul 28 #226

I would substitute "Hamas" for "Palestinians" in your statement Mossfern Jul 28 #232

Oh Please! nt RobinA Jul 28 #221

Where did you hear that crap? Got any links? Violet_Crumble Jul 30 #286

In a normal world, Israel should be treated as a beloved family member suffering Maru Kitteh Jul 27 #30

That's a kind thought. But it's a 77-year old mental health crisis. AloeVera Jul 27 #145

In other words, Israel needs an "intervention." Intractable Jul 28 #163

That is correct, I believe. nt Maru Kitteh Jul 28 #194

Biden gets blamed for everything. EndlessWire Jul 28 #236

In my opinion, Biden should have withheld awesome offensive weapons from the Israelis. Intractable Jul 28 #238

He should of stopped supplying the weapons questionseverything Jul 29 #276

The ultra orthodox on both sides are to blame. multigraincracker Jul 27 #33

History Godot51 Jul 27 #35

We have seen the lengths a man, with no conscience, will go to dlk Jul 27 #36

+1 dalton99a Jul 27 #123

A quick summary about Israel's current government PghTiny Jul 27 #37

Agree Mossfern Jul 27 #41

Thank you. It's very important to keep this in mind. thought crime Jul 28 #148

Bibi agrees with it, let's be real. AloeVera Jul 28 #175

Lol. Gaza was independent, why was it the Gazans who attacked and not the West Bank Palestinians? Pompoy Jul 28 #227

Joining the conversation 22 months into the slaughter, I wonder why now? AloeVera Jul 28 #234

The Israel of 2025 is not the Israel of 1948. OrlandoDem2 Jul 27 #45

The America of 2025 is not the America of 1948, as well.... Hekate Jul 28 #158

It's exactly like Israel of 1948. AloeVera Jul 28 #259

It's not an accident, & not due to one maniacal Bibi Netanhayu...but decades of policies with an intended purpose. Passages Jul 27 #72

Yes. Driving Gazan refugees into the Sinai has been the goal since 1948. AloeVera Jul 27 #140

Sad to say, but that would have worked out better in the long run for everybody. As in the Balkans etc Pompoy Jul 28 #228

Although the Arabs who stayed in Israel are doing ok, doctors, scientists, politicians, tv presenters. Pompoy Jul 28 #229

Just as I thought. AloeVera Jul 28 #237

Lol, lighten up Frances. Obviously Israel hasn't done any ethnic cleansing. That's why things are as they are now. Pompoy Jul 28 #255

"Pleasing the Palestinians" AloeVera Jul 28 #258

Bye Pompoy Jul 28 #260

Ah, a Hungarian whose favorite subject is Israel/Palestine. Pompoy Jul 28 #261

A Canadian citizen for nearly 60 years, actually. AloeVera Jul 30 #284

Bye Felicia Pompoy Jul 30 #290

This is a great post but the speaking out should have started about 22 months ago. Even decades ago. AloeVera Jul 27 #73

The college kids have been screaming about this, but their message was branded by others to be antisemitism. mjvpi Jul 27 #105

What was done to the college protesters was terrible. Branded, criminalized, banned, jailed, lost jobs, deported. AloeVera Jul 27 #115

I agree totally. In my opinion, Biden's blind support of Israeli actions cost the Dems the election. mjvpi Jul 27 #119

Yes, it did. It's awful, but it's the truth AloeVera Jul 27 #135

Respectfully, knowing what Trump was like, knowing he could be no-holds-barred bc 2nd term it was wrong to stay home... electric_blue68 Jul 28 #156

I don't disagree at all! AloeVera Jul 28 #210

Now we can blame those too for Trump. Thank you for admitting that. Pompoy Jul 28 #230

I'll vouch for that. Most young people I know refused to vote for that reason vanessa_ca Jul 28 #161

Thanks for your bravery. AloeVera Jul 28 #191

I cringed when I heard about it. Of all places, he did that in Michigan? vanessa_ca Jul 28 #217

More here: 2004 The plans were all there, you merely need to follow the time line. Passages Jul 27 #102

I've always been in favor of a two state solution. EndlessWire Jul 28 #152

I think it will just be Israel and - Greater Israel. AloeVera Jul 28 #187

Israel is going down a very dangerous road WSHazel Jul 27 #136

Where Would They Go? RobinA Jul 28 #223

Well said UpInArms Jul 27 #138

The US and any other country who have armed Israel is just as responsible for the needless murder going on ImNotGod Jul 27 #142

Hamas had nothing to do with it? Mossfern Jul 27 #144

THEY DID THIS, THEY DID THAT Skittles Jul 28 #150

their reputation is SHIT now Skittles Jul 28 #149

Israel's most recent history Jack Valentino Jul 28 #154

Just in time for Project Esther... live love laugh Jul 28 #160

Israel has certainly fallen in my eyes. Intractable Jul 28 #164

The Nazis blamed Jews for all sorts of nonsense and BS IronLionZion Jul 28 #165

There is no antisemitism on the left. nt LexVegas Jul 28 #170

Is that a joke? yardwork Jul 28 #172

??? lostincalifornia Jul 28 #176

Genocide maliaSmith Jul 28 #177

To be fair, they are also Bettie Jul 29 #271

I'm so old that I remember when there was a country of Palestine. Dafuq happened to it? OMGWTF Jul 28 #180

There was a *territory* called Palestine. Mossfern Jul 28 #196

When was there a country called Palestine? sarisataka Jul 28 #206

The "country" was the UK and if you born before 1920, it was the Ottoman Empire. LeftInTX Jul 29 #263

I'm not anti Israel but sho nuff anti BB, America would turn into same thing under 1 or 3 Trump admins... uponit7771 Jul 28 #199

netanyahoou is clinging to power + resists a 2 state solution + pushes settlements. pansypoo53219 Jul 28 #203

Mandy Patinkin is both articulate and emotional on the blowback to all Jews that Netanyahu is driving. SleeplessinSoCal Jul 28 #219

Truth Mossfern Jul 28 #222

love Mandy Skittles Jul 28 #231

Scorching Truth, Mandy. TY. electric_blue68 Jul 29 #265

So passionate about this Bettie Jul 29 #268

Always loved him and mow love him more. AloeVera Jul 29 #269

You can feel his frustration and anger Bettie Jul 29 #272

Painful even to listen to and watch. His heartbreak is real. AloeVera Jul 29 #273

Like moths to a flame JoseBalow Jul 28 #224

I'm not an anti-semite swong19104 Jul 28 #225

That's a great way to put it. David__77 Jul 28 #245

No need to label it Mossfern Jul 29 #270

You hit the nail on the head EndlessWire. The architects of the Balfour Declaration should have akbacchus_BC Jul 30 #289