General Discussion

sarisataka

(21,925 posts)

249. Your proposal would seem

Thu Mar 14, 2013, 01:17 PM

Mar 2013

to protect everyone and truly is a freedom of speech issue since the existence of a higher being cannot ever actually be proven or dis-proven conclusively. My guess it the writers framed it as they did given the colonial heritage of many who fled religious persecution in Britain. It seems fairly clear that while the values of the nation are based on Christian philosophy (though not unique to it) their intent was a secular country.

I would say there are two issues
1-there is no compelling reason to change the wording when the final product would provide the exact same protection
2- the bleating of the fundie side of 'god being removed' would A) give me a headache, B) likely have an electoral cost as the extreme became fully mobilized and moderates who only read headlines join them

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New Pope Elected: Centuries Of Make-Believe (Religion) Reaffirmed For The Masses [View all] stopbush Mar 2013 OP

My goodness! That's a lot of hate in such a short post. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #1

+1 cbayer Mar 2013 #2

All over DU... sarisataka Mar 2013 #3

What is interesting is that even on DU Jenoch Mar 2013 #59

It is interesting you chose to use a slander in your post dballance Mar 2013 #83

Got a link proving this> "White on rice" is a commonly used phrase to denigrate Asian-Americans KittyWampus Mar 2013 #87

Holy crapoli! "White on rice" is denigrating to brown rice, maybe. But to Asian-Americans? Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #128

I have never actually Jenoch Mar 2013 #91

I defend anyone's right to smack around any religion they so please. stopbush Mar 2013 #108

I see people writing things Jenoch Mar 2013 #112

Yeh right...funny...I don't recall corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #129

Hang around. You will. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #137

Of course. And blowback is predictable and equally acceptable. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #135

SO SO TRUE! corneliamcgillicutty Mar 2013 #127

I am pipi_k Mar 2013 #5

I like your attitude. Wish there was more of that here. kysrsoze Mar 2013 #9

+1 Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #12

I second that. Atheist here also. n/t RebelOne Mar 2013 #42

Thank you. Yours is the sounder, more mature attitude. whathehell Mar 2013 #94

The man who just became pope wants to do exactly that. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #101

If you're a Catholic and you support same-sex marriage, you have a dilemma. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #131

And the supreme court, as someone mentioned the 6 of 9 roman catholics makeup currently AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #133

Well, you might as well worry about all religions. Very few are supportive of same sex marriage. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #134

When it comes to support for same sex marriage, who would feel more comfortable with on the SCOTUS - stopbush Mar 2013 #142

Best post in the thread! etherealtruth Mar 2013 #148

But that is exactly the problem with organized religion....is it not? SammyWinstonJack Mar 2013 #166

So you should be PISSED OFF that this Church is trying to limit Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #199

What hate? oldhippie Mar 2013 #29

A Lot of Hate? Really? dballance Mar 2013 #64

Just stop. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #75

+1 Hekate Mar 2013 #71

It was all so predictable, too BeyondGeography Mar 2013 #85

+1000 Katashi_itto Mar 2013 #92

Logic is hate? CentristLiberal Mar 2013 #115

There is not an ounce of logic in the OP, just intolerance. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #130

Exactly!!!!!!! HuckleB Mar 2013 #172

Why do you hate John Lennon? 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #162

Uh, yeah. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #177

Facts are not hate. HuckleB Mar 2013 #171

I agree. Facts are not hate. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #178

Really? HuckleB Mar 2013 #180

Golly! I just don't know. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #183

Sarcasm is so cool to use when you can't back up your claims. HuckleB Mar 2013 #184

Oh, grow up. mr blur Mar 2013 #264

Ok. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #266

what a stupid op. impressive. cali Mar 2013 #4

And your comment, lacking any foundation is equally impressive dballance Mar 2013 #68

I hope someone posts the jury results Capt. Obvious Mar 2013 #6

Thank you for that fine report pintobean Mar 2013 #16

Nice inflammatory, dickish post kysrsoze Mar 2013 #7

Seriously---can't you chill for one day? trumad Mar 2013 #8

Tweets is going into 'Romanist' mode. Dawson Leery Mar 2013 #10

They must all hope that they get an interview with the new pope. LiberalFighter Mar 2013 #37

Tweety is an excitable boy Hekate Mar 2013 #73

As an atheist, this thread makes me sad LittleBlue Mar 2013 #11

Ask the new pope what he thinks of an Atheist, and let me know if respect is a two way street. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #48

Who cares? alcibiades_mystery Mar 2013 #69

While on the subject of ethics AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #72

+1, n/t RKP5637 Mar 2013 #80

I won't ask him what he thinks of my religious views Hekate Mar 2013 #79

6 of 9 SCOTUS judges are Roman Catholic, and some - like Scalia - are overt stopbush Mar 2013 #111

Justice Sotomayor is also a Roman Catholic. And a liberal. Hekate Mar 2013 #117

And Sotomayor has not issued any opinions negative toward same sex marriage to my knowledge. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #122

I imagine it's rather convenient to predicate one's behavior LanternWaste Mar 2013 #99

Perceived? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #113

I see nothing wrong with your OP. Apophis Mar 2013 #13

ridiculous post - no reason for this much hate - how about a little respect for others whether DrDan Mar 2013 #14

Respect? You want respect? Zoeisright Mar 2013 #43

From Richard Dawkins: stopbush Mar 2013 #44

hmmm DrDan Mar 2013 #47

I guess when he was supporting the repressive right wing government he was "a champion"... Walk away Mar 2013 #88

You don't have to be religious to be respectful. SpartanDem Mar 2013 #15

My family are Huguenots, and I find this post offensive. riqster Mar 2013 #17

How is it any more "over the top" than celebrating the election of a new pope? HuckleB Mar 2013 #173

One can celebrate without crapping on others riqster Mar 2013 #175

It's also insulting for an institution such as this to put so many resources into faniciful BS. HuckleB Mar 2013 #176

Read up on what the Church did to my ancestors sometime riqster Mar 2013 #182

Use of a red herring is not a valid argument. HuckleB Mar 2013 #186

If this is your definition of "Criticism" riqster Mar 2013 #187

It's no more sophomoric than the whole spectacle put on in Rome. HuckleB Mar 2013 #260

Nope, no point. You lack the ability to see anything but that which you wish to see. riqster Mar 2013 #265

Get a mirror, dude. HuckleB Mar 2013 #273

Good work, riqster. Your points were substantial. nt patrice Mar 2013 #277

I pronounce you at the pinnacle of wit and style. Dreamer Tatum Mar 2013 #18

I voted to let your op stand warrprayer Mar 2013 #19

What was the vote tally? Capt. Obvious Mar 2013 #21

I was the infamous "juror #4" :) warrprayer Mar 2013 #22

4-2 DrDan Mar 2013 #24

Says the person with a JFK avatar (nt) The Straight Story Mar 2013 #20

Lol. Good point. nt pintobean Mar 2013 #23

+1000 SpartanDem Mar 2013 #32

HA! Well spotted! (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #136

LOL jsr Mar 2013 #236

Seems a lot of DU can't handle criticism of religion yet... MellowDem Mar 2013 #25

here's a good reason warrprayer Mar 2013 #26

That's not a good reason MellowDem Mar 2013 #30

goodbye n/t warrprayer Mar 2013 #34

Might as well add me to your ignore list too while the link is hot. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #52

LOL, nice retort! N-t Logical Mar 2013 #201

You showed him! Iggo Mar 2013 #205

seems to me a lot of DU cannot handle religion yet DrDan Mar 2013 #27

This is a discussion forum... MellowDem Mar 2013 #39

I do not make fun of atheists/agnostics - I happen to be one DrDan Mar 2013 #41

So it's ok to applaud a homophobic amuse bouche Mar 2013 #51

did I say that? or was that a convenient insult. DrDan Mar 2013 #56

I've gotten that before Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #234

one would think that is not necessary DrDan Mar 2013 #245

"This is a discussion forum" amuse bouche Mar 2013 #76

Here's the thing about respect. It's a two way street. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #54

I never said you should respect him, now did I DrDan Mar 2013 #55

MY ASS. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #58

barking up the wrong tree, pardner DrDan Mar 2013 #61

Respect is earned. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #70

once again . . . DrDan Mar 2013 #102

I have respect for DU'ers, even those of this particular sect of faith. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #109

Disrespect is earned. Respect for others is the default LanternWaste Mar 2013 #103

Well, fortuitious since he earned my disrespect before he acquired this new job. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #116

Well said amuse bouche Mar 2013 #77

Love your analogy! n/t displacedtexan Mar 2013 #237

I can't take credit for it. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #238

+1 HuckleB Mar 2013 #286

I hope by now you realize the burden on proof is on the believers... Logical Mar 2013 #202

I feel the same . . . I see no difference in the arguments DrDan Mar 2013 #223

Can you point some out? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #232

my statement was made relative to the non-believer DrDan Mar 2013 #243

How many of those non-believer's do you know that make a positive statement that no god AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #247

there are certainly some here on this forum DrDan Mar 2013 #248

Logic is hard for you I guess...... Logical Mar 2013 #250

I really have no need for your insults - DrDan Mar 2013 #251

Thanks. At least one DUer gets it. stopbush Mar 2013 #38

exactly fascisthunter Mar 2013 #152

Can we mock Ramadan yet? J/S. WinkyDink Mar 2013 #28

Hell, I'll draw Mohammed if I want Taverner Mar 2013 #35

Sure! progressoid Mar 2013 #67

Hell yeah. Why should religion have a protective bubble around it? Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #81

"Fatwa Envy" msanthrope Mar 2013 #160

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition." WinkyDink Mar 2013 #167

Spot fucking on! Capt. Obvious Mar 2013 #253

There are people who seem to actually fantasize Mariana Mar 2013 #255

Of course Capt. Obvious Mar 2013 #256

How many attitudes towards stopbush's OP will be altered by ChisolmTrailDem Mar 2013 #31

Yep. It's still OK to hire a raging homophobe to run your business stopbush Mar 2013 #40

Apparently it's ok to celebrate homophobic leaders here amuse bouche Mar 2013 #62

Maybe 5%. The intolerance toward Catholics for other reasons is centuries old. Buzz Clik Mar 2013 #132

"If you don't want people to make fun of your beliefs, don't have funny beliefs!" Taverner Mar 2013 #33

One of these days the hierarchy of the church will let the truth slip and we will have Arcanetrance Mar 2013 #36

K&R MotherPetrie Mar 2013 #45

You mean the Vatican Mafia has chosen a new Don? Dash87 Mar 2013 #46

Be careful the religies are in amuse bouche Mar 2013 #49

"Cardinals hire new manager" krispos42 Mar 2013 #50

Funny. :) Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #66

And you wonder why atheists get a bad rep by many. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #53

They get a bad rep? amuse bouche Mar 2013 #60

Yes. Yes they do. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #65

But the great atheists amuse bouche Mar 2013 #74

What's it to them? I mean, really. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #78

It matters because most of us are amuse bouche Mar 2013 #86

Of course if you are claiming that religious people are "reality deniers"... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #90

Common sense gets some panties in a bunch amuse bouche Mar 2013 #95

Okay. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2013 #96

Oh no. Not a pissing match. A matter of self-defense. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #124

Self defense? sarisataka Mar 2013 #139

This is the single largest religious denomination in the United States. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #140

And you hope to win those people over by sarisataka Mar 2013 #141

I'm not here to make friends. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #143

It is easier to get legislation passed with friends sarisataka Mar 2013 #144

Amen (the non-religious kind of "amen")! stopbush Mar 2013 #147

Who is looking to win people over? stopbush Mar 2013 #145

Interesting... sarisataka Mar 2013 #146

Yep. I would say that it's time to amend the Constitution to clearly treat religious thought stopbush Mar 2013 #149

I appreciate your honesty sarisataka Mar 2013 #153

Thanks for your tolerance. stopbush Mar 2013 #154

This message was self-deleted by its author Occulus Mar 2013 #158

"I" sarisataka Mar 2013 #163

How can one not accept that? stopbush Mar 2013 #188

I believe the Constitutional protection should remain sarisataka Mar 2013 #197

But do we really need the language in 1A that is specific to the exercising of religious belief? stopbush Mar 2013 #217

Your proposal would seem sarisataka Mar 2013 #249

Well, I would disagree with you that the present language gives equal protection. stopbush Mar 2013 #279

I see what you are saying sarisataka Mar 2013 #280

What of the people who just want to live their lives AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #118

well said - exactly right! DrDan Mar 2013 #224

It is silly. earthside Mar 2013 #57

The media is pathetic amuse bouche Mar 2013 #89

Thank goodness it won't last long. earthside Mar 2013 #107

this is going straight to the trash where it belongs liberal_at_heart Mar 2013 #63

I would have been well-advised to do so also - not worth a breath of discussion DrDan Mar 2013 #106

Care to say that about Islam? The make believe part? Zax2me Mar 2013 #82

As far as I'm concerned all religions are evil alarimer Mar 2013 #84

Thank you amuse bouche Mar 2013 #93

No more and no less imaginary than many other human constructs... LanternWaste Mar 2013 #97

Party Dress bpj62 Mar 2013 #98

Thanks. And I'm happy you got the point of the JFK avatar in this discussion. stopbush Mar 2013 #119

it's a personal choice. i choose not to participate. many do. spanone Mar 2013 #100

Funny and wickedly biting. 99Forever Mar 2013 #104

And how are the Tea Party, Republican Party, Libertarian Party and Democratic Party... aristocles Mar 2013 #105

None of them believe they are channeling the thoughts of some god to justify their stopbush Mar 2013 #121

Certainly some members of those parties do. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #126

In the Republican Party and the Tea Party Nevernose Mar 2013 #170

Joe Biden is a Roman Catholic. Do you think he also has a "raging boner"? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #110

Did Joe Biden get a tingle up his leg when Obama was elected in 2008? stopbush Mar 2013 #220

You know, I'm Christian OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #114

"tolerant of others" amuse bouche Mar 2013 #123

I MEANT OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #155

I think that holding others to a higher standard LanternWaste Mar 2013 #125

Michigan. Marriage amendment. Occulus Mar 2013 #174

It's true many OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #189

An article on today's HuffPo says that 40% of liberals are non-believers. stopbush Mar 2013 #221

Here is the good thing about how OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #235

But ... Arugula Latte Mar 2013 #259

Yeah they can try OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #270

completely agree - from the other side DrDan Mar 2013 #225

why are people so hurt ??? olddots Mar 2013 #120

"unscientific self glorifying dribble" amuse bouche Mar 2013 #157

I don't think you're garbage OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #161

and this children is what happens when whistler162 Mar 2013 #138

hahaha... true fascisthunter Mar 2013 #150

Unfortunately the homophobia and misogyny of this religion aren't make believe. forestpath Mar 2013 #151

Exactly amuse bouche Mar 2013 #156

They might as well be enabling and celebrating the Republican party. forestpath Mar 2013 #159

Some are too blind to see amuse bouche Mar 2013 #164

That's what I just don't understand... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #181

Well I don't believe God OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #192

So the fact that the institution they belong to hates gays and women... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #194

What I'm saying OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #210

And that is sort of my point...if YOU as the believer felt that god actually DID love Teh gays.... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #226

Ok, I'm going to say this again OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #230

I wasn't asking you anything, my point was that I couldn't see how THEY square that circle... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #252

To be honest I really don't know OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #269

You're right OwnedByCats Mar 2013 #165

That's a pretty crappy thing to post today. Very bad form. NaturalHigh Mar 2013 #168

I missed the announcement that The Roman church was the official religion... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #169

2/3 of the Supreme Court justices are paid up adherents, so sadly their nonsense influences policy. LeftyMom Mar 2013 #211

And that is the truly scary thing... truebrit71 Mar 2013 #227

Your post is completely offensive. hrmjustin Mar 2013 #179

Always classy BainsBane Mar 2013 #196

Some of the posts here today were just awful. hrmjustin Mar 2013 #198

I know BainsBane Mar 2013 #203

I saw that as well. hrmjustin Mar 2013 #204

I think part of the problem BainsBane Mar 2013 #207

Insensitive tacky tasteless post. You could have the Raine Mar 2013 #185

Yes. In retrospect, I should have put away the anger and disgust I feel towards stopbush Mar 2013 #191

More comedy MFrohike Mar 2013 #190

"Imagine no religion." - John Lennon Raffi Ella Mar 2013 #193

Religion isn't make believe BainsBane Mar 2013 #195

Lord of the Rings isn't make believe, but only in the sense that it's a real series of books... Silent3 Mar 2013 #208

it's true as in the sense that literature as an art form is real BainsBane Mar 2013 #212

When people take it so seriously that they base how they live on it... Silent3 Mar 2013 #213

Few people do that BainsBane Mar 2013 #215

When did I say anything about hating anyone? Silent3 Mar 2013 #216

so the beliefs of conservatives are real BainsBane Mar 2013 #241

You're the one who said " Few people do that (in response to me... Silent3 Mar 2013 #257

Okay BainsBane Mar 2013 #261

How do I deal with the "crux of (your) argument" if you won't make a clear crux? Silent3 Mar 2013 #262

Let's review BainsBane Mar 2013 #271

No, you're focussed on turning any nuance you can't grasp into a simplistic strawman... Silent3 Mar 2013 #272

That's a perfectly sound sociological argument. nyquil_man Mar 2013 #222

I know what he meant BainsBane Mar 2013 #240

If you know what he means, why do you reply as if you don't? n/t nyquil_man Mar 2013 #246

+1 BainsBane Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #229

Oh. So because it's part of culture it's okay to be misogynistic and homophobic? Apophis Mar 2013 #231

Did I say that? BainsBane Mar 2013 #239

Actually, you did. Apophis Mar 2013 #254

not even remotely BainsBane Mar 2013 #258

You know, there's a limited character count available on DU title lines for an OP, stopbush Mar 2013 #283

The word God takes up fewer characters than religion BainsBane Mar 2013 #287

Not all religions have gods in them. stopbush Mar 2013 #288

This belongs in Atheists & Agnostics (Group) Lady Freedom Returns Mar 2013 #200

Amazing how this post isn't locked yet though my similar post CAG Mar 2013 #206

not really surprising BainsBane Mar 2013 #209

I've gotta say I'm surprised this thread I started is still alive. stopbush Mar 2013 #219

Why do you have Livluvgrow Mar 2013 #214

Our "first Catholic president" spent a lot of time fucking Marilyn Monroe stopbush Mar 2013 #218

Got a link for that, stopbush? Octafish Mar 2013 #233

Your post makes no sense. It addresses nothing I wrote. stopbush Mar 2013 #242

You smear JFK and pretend it's a normal thing to do. Same for Roman Catholics. Octafish Mar 2013 #244

It's not a smear if it's true, and JFK's philandering while married to Jackie stopbush Mar 2013 #263

No , what you write is a smear, stopbush. Octafish Mar 2013 #268

This message was self-deleted by its author stopbush Mar 2013 #274

Didn't take long for your fantasies about the plot to kill JFK to come up, did it? stopbush Mar 2013 #275

No fantasy. Abraham Bolden tells the truth. Octafish Mar 2013 #278

+1 patrice Mar 2013 #276

I've been everything, catholic, atheists, agnostic, bhuddist, vedic Puzzledtraveller Mar 2013 #228

Unfortunately, some of those beliefs lead to harm done to others. HuckleB Mar 2013 #285

What an excellent opportunity to deploy reasoned argumentation against delusional thinking Coyotl Mar 2013 #267

God ... napkinz Mar 2013 #281

someone else posted this recently ... very funny ... and spot on napkinz Mar 2013 #282

+1 HuckleB Mar 2013 #284