What people here who demand Catholics leave their church don't understand.

[MellowDem]

16. I perfectly understand...

having been raised religious and involved in my local church from a very young age. I engaged in all sorts of intellectual dishonesty and cognitive dissonance to stay in my church for a long time, because it was tradition, it was community, it was familiar, it was comfortable.

I'm not suggesting or telling people to leave the Catholic Church (or any other religions), people will do what they do. I'm trying to change the perspective of those who choose to remain with a religion they fundamentally disagree with.

Plenty of Catholics HAVE left the Catholic Church, just to rejoin other churches that still provide them with that same sense of community they had before AND also have official positions that align with their beliefs. And plenty of Protestants have done the with their churches.

So why not then individual local parishes "secede" from the Church? That way, some might say, the social structure of the parish is kept intact but it is free from the control of the dysfunction of the heirarchy. Well, I hate to tell you, but that's not going to work, either. Besides the fact it would be incredibly burdensome to do logistically, having countless little splinter churches out there that run the risk of diluting the Catholic identity, especially when it comes to faith doctrine and matters of liturgy. People would quickly lose interest. Despite all its misgivings, the heirarchy does serve some useful function in creating a sense of cohesion, nothwithstanding all its other problems.

You see, it HAS worked. That's what the Protestant reformation worked. Of COURSE individual parishes could secede. The whole Episcopalian Church has broke away from the Anglican Church. The Methodist Church is schisming over gay marriage as we speak. You complain about "diluting the Catholic identity" while simultaneously saying there IS no Catholic identity, all the members have different beliefs and quite a few disagree with the fundamental beliefs of the heirarchy. And people don't quickly lose interest, UNLESS the only reason they were part of the church to begin with was for very superficial reasons (not related to the beliefs or community). The heirarchy DOES create a sense of cohesion, but of course that's what's causing so many Catholics to leave, because they don't identify with the heirarchy.

Essentially, people who choose to go to a church and stay in the church only because of the tradition and community it provides (and that is exactly what you're talking about), even while opposing the fundamental beliefs of the belief system, are engaging in cognitive dissonace and intellectual dishonesty.

When they choose to identify with an organization that is fundamentally bigoted and actively working to spread that bigotry, they are making a trade off. Sure, they may be identifying with and supporting indirectly a bigoted organization, BUT they like the tradition and community the organization provides to them personally. But quite a few on here won't admit that that is exactly the trade off they are making. There are plenty of ways to try to rationalize away identifying and supporting a bigoted organization, and we've seen quite a few in your post.

You can say that you don't identify with the heirarchy, just your local organization. You could say that local organizations can't survive without the heirarchy. These are not good rationalizations. They don't refute the fact that people are identifying with, and, in some indirect ways, supporting an organization that spreads homophobia and misogyny in a trade off for tradition and community. There ARE other ways to have tradition and community.

It seems some would rather like to cover their ears and pretend this wasn't the case. Or just scream "bigot!" nonsensically at anyone who points out these inconvenient facts, attacking the messenger so to speak. Religion has gotten a pass for a VERY long time, as a matter of tradition and community, but it shouldn't. Yes, liberals who identify with a bigoted organization, religious or not, are engaging in cognitive dissonance or intellectual dishonesty of some sort, and pointing that out isn't bigoted.