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In reply to the discussion: Robert F Kennedy Jr compares childhood vaccines to Nazi Death Camps... [View all]Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)126. Uh huh...
But the vaccine industry rules over so many aspects of American and British life, so that when tens of thousand of parents of children who were perfectly normal and who ahd reached every developmental point exactly on time, yet once a certain vaccine or set of vaccines was concluded, these parents who watched their kids immediately and as a direct response tot he shot(s) begin to convulse, scream, become diarrhetic and having the diarrhea last for days, and then autism descended, our government suddenly adopted the "that is a mere anecdotal experience and doesn't count.'
One, prove that it happened. The problem with anecdotal evidence is this; "My son got diarrhea after he got a vaccine." or "after her vaccine, my 13 year old girl started being very argumentative and unresponsive!" As if the only thing in the world that could explain a bad case of the runs is the vaccine? As if the vaccine somehow turned a 13 year old into a snarky asshat? They're usually such doting sweethearts!
There's also the problem there's no rhyme or reason. It's all "random bad things," even from identical shots. Going into convulsions is a very different reaction to catching a case of the runs. You inject a toxin into someone, and it will have about the same effect every time. It's reliable. It's one way of diagnosing poison exposure, because toxin A has a different effect than Toxin F, and both behave consistently.
What it looks like is parents arbitrarily linking something to the vaccination. Their son has an undercooked burger, oh, the vaccine gave him the shits. The parent suddenly realizes their teenager is a teenager, oh no,the shot must have done it.
Two, prove that it was linked to the vaccine. Reactions tend to be acute and fairly immediate. There's a reason they ask if you have allergies, after all. There's also the fact that the whole point of a vaccine is to trigger your body's immune system which, let's face it, is no fucking fun at all. And yes, that can be dangerous, leading to dehydration and high fevers. Nobody's ever said that there are no risks. But...
Three, expound on what magical,substance can cause this life-shattering reaction with one injection. This is the real trouble, because there isn't one. Anti-vaccers imagine some mystical witches brew of eeeeeevil compounds that when mixed juuuuust right, have all these random bad effects... Unfortunately this isn't the case; even if it were, the results would be regular and consistent, as I've just noted. Instead you get random and weird. Again it's not that there are no risks, but if we're talking chemicals, the major concern is exposure... and one injection of something, unless it's something super-scary, just isn't going to do anything. Long term exposure is what does it, and even then, it can be years and years for it to add up. Do you have any idea how much arsenic is in your water? More than you'd be comfortable with, I assure you. And you're chucking that down your gullet with regularity, and you think an injection is going to magically transform your child into a werewolf?
Which brings me to the main problem... Most anti-vaccers are caareer idiots. And I don't say that just to be insulting, but because they fucking are. They believe in black helicopters, homeopathy, and contacting deceased pets through seances. They're what is termed "magical thinkers," where everything that happens in the world is the result of direct agency, and wild intuitive leaps are exactly as valid as studied reasoning.
All the stuff above? The random bad effects, the assumption of grand conspiracies, and the belief that a single injection of some substance can magically - yes, magically - re-engineer a personality overnight? it's bullshit, and it's bullshit nobody believed until Andrew Wakefield and Jenny McCarthy joined forces.
While you're waving your torches and pitchforks about the "vaccine industry" and how evil it is, please to realize your entire argument is based on the claims of a man who faked research and launched a media scare campaign specifically to turn the public against a competing vaccine, enabling him to (in his imagination) command that market, and a former playmate whose knowledge of medicine seems to stretch only so far as eating flintstones chewables and buying dollar store magnet bracelets.
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Robert F Kennedy Jr compares childhood vaccines to Nazi Death Camps... [View all]
Godhumor
Jun 2013
OP
Autism is a pretty desperate thing. Sadly, in my experiene, very good experience
MichiganVote
Jun 2013
#5
It is a real diagnosis of that there is not doubt. But physicians do not account for
MichiganVote
Jun 2013
#33
that is why a family physician who spots early warning signs will refer you to a
liberal_at_heart
Jun 2013
#34
of course they are not always correct. That does not mean there is some overdiagnosis crisis.
liberal_at_heart
Jun 2013
#39
Begging your pardon, I did not state that there is an overdiagnosis crisis.
MichiganVote
Jun 2013
#41
He has a good heart, he means well, but he's not the sharpest knife, and he's easily led.
MADem
Jun 2013
#53
My wife is now bedridden from polio in 1935. Bet she would have liked for a Salk/Sabin-type
indepat
Jun 2013
#90
So I followed links and found that RFK Jr. has a taped conversation between Offit....
Junkdrawer
Jun 2013
#2
Ah yes, his infamous claim that he will rat out the government if they don't clean up vaccines
Godhumor
Jun 2013
#4
well, there are deluded parents who believe vaccines caused autism in their children
Godhumor
Jun 2013
#114
I won't hear a word said against Flinstones Chewables, because they're so damn tasty.
Orrex
Jun 2013
#132
Your entire argument boils down to a Post Hoc-Ergo Propter Hoc logical fallacy
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#161
Putting that argument aside, how do you (also Godhumor, Sid) interpret these historical facts.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#162
You haven't posted any facts. Link to a mainstream modern science or medical site please. nt
stevenleser
Jun 2013
#181
Preposterous. See post #144. Go directly to the Stanford link provided and skip the analysis by AOA.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#185
"there is no credible proof that the autism/vaccine situation is not worrisome"
MattBaggins
Jun 2013
#163
You know, I was content to let this thread die, but holy shit your link is just awful
Godhumor
Jun 2013
#198
FOCUS. I linked to a post reproducing package inserts citing adverse reactions ONLY, as described.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#200
Let's take the site off the table then, although the site authors did the research.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#205
Yes and I find it sad as a mom of an autistic child to see him repeat these claims
maddezmom
Jun 2013
#16
There was no de-bunking. However, due to how Americans have been brain washed,
truedelphi
Jun 2013
#206
Lost all respect for Kennedy when he published his dumbass anti-vax article...
SidDithers
Jun 2013
#15
Maybe (obviously) he knows more than he's being given credit for on this thread.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#145
I have been very reluctant for reasons below, but you made me do it. Check it out, all 9:07 minutes.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#146
And then there are kids who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, and babies who are too young
LeftishBrit
Jun 2013
#97
You may be interested to know that CDC decided, in 1969, to continue the Tuskeegee syphilis
HiPointDem
Jun 2013
#46
Again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of science, and the medicine tied to it
EvolveOrConvolve
Jun 2013
#115
Sodium, in small amounts, will kill you, so will Lithium, yet both are consumed in quantities...
Humanist_Activist
Jun 2013
#149
And all you offer are some lousy FACTS about what he REALLY said and about thimerosal!?!?
DeSwiss
Jun 2013
#47
Advocating for locking people up for the "crime" of saving lives with science based on pseudoscience
Major Nikon
Jun 2013
#54
Fucking materialists. Everybody knows autism is caused by an imbalancing of the mind-sense.
mathematic
Jun 2013
#55
Thanks so very much for the links. Your post is why I continue to come to DU. It is possible to
KittyWampus
Jun 2013
#94
Are you sure *every* fact of science was "once Damned"? *Every* invention considered impossible?
Silent3
Jun 2013
#159
If it's the piece that he published in 2005, then it was bullshit when I read it eight years ago.
Orrex
Jun 2013
#82
Okay you didn't read it, except you did, and you asked for a citation, except you didn't.
ucrdem
Jun 2013
#86
One of DU's biggest conspiracy theorist is trying to defend his hero RFK Jr...
SidDithers
Jun 2013
#61
I guess it's somewhat better to defend RFK Jr, rather than defending Lee Harvey Oswald, eh?
zappaman
Jun 2013
#73
As opposed to what, mentioning how George Herbert Walker Bush was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963?
Octafish
Jun 2013
#81
Let's see, RFK Jr. a genuine Democrat and a Liberal not known for being a CT v Sid.
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#124
Well, I've never seen you be right about too many things frankly, so if you did turn out to be
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#131
Most telling you find humor in the assassinations of President Kennedy and Sen. Kennedy.
Octafish
Jun 2013
#135
science does not show mercury, even in trace amounts, to be safe for humans
MattBaggins
Jun 2013
#177
He's completely jumped the shark. No telling how many people around the world have been kept from
kestrel91316
Jun 2013
#83
Disappointed to see RFK Jr. put his name down supporting this lethal woo. n/t
backscatter712
Jun 2013
#119
This thread is filled with distortions. Read what remains online of the original pulled post.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#125
Here's a new video which provides historical evidence suggesting otherwise.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#137
You won't multitask and simply listen to the narration ONCE while doing something else?
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#182
The video summarizes explosive historical findings about the first cases of autism ever documented.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#184
These are astonishing historical facts, aren't they? Find any alternate interpretations anywhere?
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#213
One non sequitur deserves another. Read, then look in a mirror, please.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#212
Lack of nuance does great disservice to that argument and is out-of-date among experts except Offit.
proverbialwisdom
Jun 2013
#144
he shouldn't host Ring of Fire anymore. And does he not understand science at all?
alp227
Jun 2013
#158