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Silent3

(15,909 posts)

159. Are you sure *every* fact of science was "once Damned"? *Every* invention considered impossible?

Tue Jun 4, 2013, 04:51 PM

Jun 2013

Really? There's not, in fact, a large body of invention that more or less fulfills expectations of what might come next? You're sure there's not a large body of scientific knowledge that has been built incrementally and not-too-surprisingly from known science?

And yes, "refusal to bow to authority" and "disobedience" have their place in scientific discovery, but it's "survivor bias" (Google it) to not realize what low yields those things produce.

Most of what is laughed at deserves to be laughed at, and thankfully never goes anywhere.

Most crazy ideas are just that, crazy ideas.

The problem is, when a crazy, laughed-at idea hits the big time, everyone hears about it. Most of the vastly larger supply of bad ideas is quickly forgotten. To make matters worse, the degree of rejection and controversy about some scientific ideas that had a bit of struggle getting started gets greatly exaggerated by popularizing biographers and historians of science, just to make their stories seem more dramatic.

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Robert F Kennedy Jr compares childhood vaccines to Nazi Death Camps... [View all] Godhumor Jun 2013 OP

My Psychological Grandmother had Polio. She could have lived a MichiganVote Jun 2013 #1

To have someone like Kennedy corrupted just hurts Godhumor Jun 2013 #3

Autism is a pretty desperate thing. Sadly, in my experiene, very good experience MichiganVote Jun 2013 #5

I disagree. Autism is as prevelent as they say. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #31

It is a real diagnosis of that there is not doubt. But physicians do not account for MichiganVote Jun 2013 #33

that is why a family physician who spots early warning signs will refer you to a liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #34

Then your guy did the right thing. Unfortunatly others do not. MichiganVote Jun 2013 #35

How do you know they aren't? liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #37

Because I work in this domain and you don't. Now stop with the stuff. MichiganVote Jun 2013 #38

of course they are not always correct. That does not mean there is some overdiagnosis crisis. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #39

Begging your pardon, I did not state that there is an overdiagnosis crisis. MichiganVote Jun 2013 #41

He has a good heart, he means well, but he's not the sharpest knife, and he's easily led. MADem Jun 2013 #53

"Wrong" isn't the same as "corrupted", surely? N.T. Donald Ian Rankin Jun 2013 #111

Yes, I am with you Taverner Jun 2013 #201

What if i may ask is a... Bay Boy Jun 2013 #6

I'm pretty curious about that one myself. LuvNewcastle Jun 2013 #8

I hope not. See below. MichiganVote Jun 2013 #12

:) She was a retired School Social Worker. They used to call them MichiganVote Jun 2013 #10

Facist arely staircase Jun 2013 #7

Oh I'm far worse than that. I am a realist in an unreal age. :) MichiganVote Jun 2013 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jun 2013 #26

Agreed. I realize that our drug companies are suspect of many things, MichiganVote Jun 2013 #27

My wife is now bedridden from polio in 1935. Bet she would have liked for a Salk/Sabin-type indepat Jun 2013 #90

I Got Polio One Month Before Vaccine otohara Jun 2013 #109

So I followed links and found that RFK Jr. has a taped conversation between Offit.... Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #2

Ah yes, his infamous claim that he will rat out the government if they don't clean up vaccines Godhumor Jun 2013 #4

Not to worry. After reading this thread no one will even THINK.... Junkdrawer Jun 2013 #14

Vaccines need to be cleaned up! - you are the fruit loop! womanofthehills Jun 2013 #44

There is a fund because Are_grits_groceries Jun 2013 #49

My question would be Heywood J Jun 2013 #129

step out of the hills for a bit snooper2 Jun 2013 #133

And there are people who have serious reactions to Tylenol and ibuprofin XemaSab Jun 2013 #202

No he has a rational mind and he has the facts. truedelphi Jun 2013 #103

sure, let me refute everything with one point. Godhumor Jun 2013 #106

uh actually there was ONE case that made the headlines truedelphi Jun 2013 #108

it did not cause autism, it caused autism-like symptoms Godhumor Jun 2013 #110

Actruallyt he pre-existing condition was a mitochondrial disorder truedelphi Jun 2013 #112

well, there are deluded parents who believe vaccines caused autism in their children Godhumor Jun 2013 #114

Oh baloney! truedelphi Jun 2013 #123

Uh huh... Scootaloo Jun 2013 #126

I won't hear a word said against Flinstones Chewables, because they're so damn tasty. Orrex Jun 2013 #132

Thanks Scootaloo Jun 2013 #136

Are you aware that in countless governmental agencies across the world truedelphi Jun 2013 #147

Horseshit... SidDithers Jun 2013 #151

Your entire argument boils down to a Post Hoc-Ergo Propter Hoc logical fallacy stevenleser Jun 2013 #161

Putting that argument aside, how do you (also Godhumor, Sid) interpret these historical facts. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #162

You haven't posted any facts. Link to a mainstream modern science or medical site please. nt stevenleser Jun 2013 #181

Preposterous. See post #144. Go directly to the Stanford link provided and skip the analysis by AOA. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #185

Here are facts I presented. truedelphi Jun 2013 #187

Fifteen separate citations found by one single parent truedelphi Jun 2013 #191

Which of my arguments? truedelphi Jun 2013 #186

What a load of hooey MattBaggins Jun 2013 #165

+100 zappaman Jun 2013 #139

Great post! LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #152

Thank you and very nice to find a few truedelphi Jun 2013 #160

I was replying to Scootaloo's post, so don't thank me! LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #199

Vaccines caused a mitochondrial disorder? MattBaggins Jun 2013 #164

Not proven. Zoeisright Jun 2013 #122

"there is no credible proof that the autism/vaccine situation is not worrisome" MattBaggins Jun 2013 #163

Scroll down, please. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #195

You know, I was content to let this thread die, but holy shit your link is just awful Godhumor Jun 2013 #198

FOCUS. I linked to a post reproducing package inserts citing adverse reactions ONLY, as described. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #200

I addressed the inserts Godhumor Jun 2013 #203

Let's take the site off the table then, although the site authors did the research. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #205

RFK Jr. A shameful, ignorant buffoon. longship Jun 2013 #9

I think it is more the unfortunate influence of Hollywood betterdemsonly Jun 2013 #121

This message was self-deleted by its author alp227 Jun 2013 #156

Hasn't the vaccines-autism thing been comprehensively debunked? (nt) Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #13

Yes and I find it sad as a mom of an autistic child to see him repeat these claims maddezmom Jun 2013 #16

me too and getting my son vaccinated was hell but I did it. liberal_at_heart Jun 2013 #36

There was no de-bunking. However, due to how Americans have been brain washed, truedelphi Jun 2013 #206

Only if you buy into that sciency stuff. Dr. Strange Jun 2013 #92

Lost all respect for Kennedy when he published his dumbass anti-vax article... SidDithers Jun 2013 #15

The green our vaccines thing in 2009 was pretty bad, too Godhumor Jun 2013 #18

Yup... SidDithers Jun 2013 #22

I don't get why RFK Jr. would drink the kool-aide on this issue... Blue_Tires Jun 2013 #134

Maybe (obviously) he knows more than he's being given credit for on this thread. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #145

Or perhaps his law firm sees the money to be made MattBaggins Jun 2013 #166

On the enviroment the young Kennedy is a great man who should be listened to dsc Jun 2013 #17

I have been very reluctant for reasons below, but you made me do it. Check it out, all 9:07 minutes. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #146

Well, that really sucks. TransitJohn Jun 2013 #19

Nut...job. eom NaturalHigh Jun 2013 #20

Too bad we don't have an antistupidity vaccine. hobbit709 Jun 2013 #21

/thread...nt SidDithers Jun 2013 #23

This is what woo can do. Archae Jun 2013 #24

Childhood diseases are returning due to the anti-vaxxers cpwm17 Jun 2013 #32

Some of them like to say that they're only endangering themselves Mariana Jun 2013 #42

And then there are kids who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons, and babies who are too young LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #97

Wow, just wow!!!! Beacool Jun 2013 #25

i'm not anti-vaccine, but i DesertFlower Jun 2013 #28

You may be interested in the CDC info. MichiganVote Jun 2013 #29

You may be interested to know that CDC decided, in 1969, to continue the Tuskeegee syphilis HiPointDem Jun 2013 #46

The problem is the mercury... davidn3600 Jun 2013 #51

You lack even a basic understanding of science EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2013 #63

And what did they replace it with? davidn3600 Jun 2013 #99

Again, you demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of science, and the medicine tied to it EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2013 #115

salt water is toxic MattBaggins Jun 2013 #170

You are wasting your time MattBaggins Jun 2013 #168

Death by a thousand cuts Mr. Baggins EvolveOrConvolve Jun 2013 #176

Most vaccines don't contain mercury nowadays. LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #100

Sodium, in small amounts, will kill you, so will Lithium, yet both are consumed in quantities... Humanist_Activist Jun 2013 #149

As a Europaean - we get almost as many vaccines as you do. LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #98

There may be something to PART Carolina Jun 2013 #141

exactly. i'm almost 72. DesertFlower Jun 2013 #148

60 here and glad of it Carolina Jun 2013 #155

i rarely eat fruit. it doesn't taste DesertFlower Jun 2013 #175

We could start our Carolina Jun 2013 #204

my grandparents were 5 houses away. most of my DesertFlower Jun 2013 #207

I'll be on the look out for you, DesertFlower Carolina Jun 2013 #210

Does anybody know if RFK Jr. has choie Jun 2013 #30

He is a lawyer MattBaggins Jun 2013 #171

Very sad. Starry Messenger Jun 2013 #40

i really have a problem with people like him madrchsod Jun 2013 #43

May I point out that RFK Jr claims that Thimerosal, *NOT* vaccination, ucrdem Jun 2013 #45

And all you offer are some lousy FACTS about what he REALLY said and about thimerosal!?!? DeSwiss Jun 2013 #47

+1 ucrdem Jun 2013 #48

What he really said... Major Nikon Jun 2013 #50

Yes, ''woo'' -- the place from whence science was born..... DeSwiss Jun 2013 #52

Advocating for locking people up for the "crime" of saving lives with science based on pseudoscience Major Nikon Jun 2013 #54

Heard of Dr. Poul Thorsen? proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #192

Scathing April Fool's spoof post inspired by actual events. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #193

Fucking materialists. Everybody knows autism is caused by an imbalancing of the mind-sense. mathematic Jun 2013 #55

You got me.. Is that woo or satire? MattBaggins Jun 2013 #173

''woo'' -- the place from whence science was born..... SidDithers Jun 2013 #56

Thanks so very much for the links. Your post is why I continue to come to DU. It is possible to KittyWampus Jun 2013 #94

Really? MattBaggins Jun 2013 #174

+1000 for RAW Newest Reality Jun 2013 #154

Thanks for always being there with the comic relief MattBaggins Jun 2013 #172

Are you sure *every* fact of science was "once Damned"? *Every* invention considered impossible? Silent3 Jun 2013 #159

Well, he's still full of shit Orrex Jun 2013 #69

Some in Congress agree with him... ucrdem Jun 2013 #71

It's still bullshit, no matter who endorses it Orrex Jun 2013 #72

I just checked and RFK doesn't mention Wakefield anywhere in either article. ucrdem Jun 2013 #74

Wakefield is the source of anti-Thimerosal hysteria Orrex Jun 2013 #75

Why don't you just read the article, or at least the footnotes ucrdem Jun 2013 #77

I'm not going to read a 66 page article of bullshit Orrex Jun 2013 #79

You didn't read it, but you know it's bullshit. Okay. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #80

If it's the piece that he published in 2005, then it was bullshit when I read it eight years ago. Orrex Jun 2013 #82

Okay you didn't read it, except you did, and you asked for a citation, except you didn't. ucrdem Jun 2013 #86

So you've got nothing. Orrex Jun 2013 #88

I have ignore, and you're not making sense, so goodbye. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #93

And thus the cause of science is advanced. Orrex Jun 2013 #102

All roads lead to Rome. Chan790 Jun 2013 #76

Lilly has known about this since 1935. ucrdem Jun 2013 #78

p.s. here is the complete citation: ucrdem Jun 2013 #96

Thank you for the link. Petrushka Jun 2013 #127

Oh sure. "Unsatisfactory as a serum intended for use on dogs.” ucrdem Jun 2013 #143

Until I began reading that article, I didn't know . . . Petrushka Jun 2013 #150

Adding neurotoxic ethyl mercury germicide to required pediatric vaccinations, ucrdem Jun 2013 #190

Wrong? Wrong? Well . . . for one thing . . . Petrushka Jun 2013 #208

Ah, yes. Congress. The arbiter of good science. Liberal Veteran Jun 2013 #211

RFK Jr. has slipped over the edge of reason on this one. MineralMan Jun 2013 #57

Woo etherealtruth Jun 2013 #58

Discover magazine found 'upper class' leans republican. Octafish Jun 2013 #59

Honest question, in am not sure of what you are stating Godhumor Jun 2013 #60

One of DU's biggest conspiracy theorist is trying to defend his hero RFK Jr... SidDithers Jun 2013 #61

Labels are so you, siddithers. Octafish Jun 2013 #62

No, octafish... SidDithers Jun 2013 #64

That must be why, when I ask you to show where I'm wrong, you can't. Octafish Jun 2013 #65

I guess it's somewhat better to defend RFK Jr, rather than defending Lee Harvey Oswald, eh? zappaman Jun 2013 #73

As opposed to what, mentioning how George Herbert Walker Bush was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963? Octafish Jun 2013 #81

Let's see, RFK Jr. a genuine Democrat and a Liberal not known for being a CT v Sid. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #124

I look forward to your apology... SidDithers Jun 2013 #128

Well, I've never seen you be right about too many things frankly, so if you did turn out to be sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #131

Well Sid Dithers... zappaman Jun 2013 #113

I had hundreds of journal posts, with incredible details about JFK... SidDithers Jun 2013 #117

Most telling you find humor in the assassinations of President Kennedy and Sen. Kennedy. Octafish Jun 2013 #135

Meet blogger Keith Kloor Octafish Jun 2013 #66

yes, yes he had a spat with another blogger Godhumor Jun 2013 #67

I'll side with RFK, Jr. Octafish Jun 2013 #68

Then, quite simply, you are choosing wrong Godhumor Jun 2013 #70

You know he said those things? You heard a recording? You read a transcript? Octafish Jun 2013 #85

talking in circles now. Kennedy is wrong Godhumor Jun 2013 #87

"Kennedy is making the situation thousands of times worse... zappaman Jun 2013 #91

Maybe "gullible people" actually read his articles. ucrdem Jun 2013 #189

science does not show mercury, even in trace amounts, to be safe for humans MattBaggins Jun 2013 #177

Dude you can't even spell it. n/t ucrdem Jun 2013 #188

I can't even spell what? MattBaggins Jun 2013 #197

Bookmarking... SidDithers Jun 2013 #84

You better believe it! zappaman Jun 2013 #89

Gotta say, I don't miss the daily David Michael Green updates. name not needed Jun 2013 #95

Well, there's a blast from the past... SidDithers Jun 2013 #116

At least you didn't have to sit through his lectures. name not needed Jun 2013 #120

He's completely jumped the shark. No telling how many people around the world have been kept from kestrel91316 Jun 2013 #83

Apart from anything else... LeftishBrit Jun 2013 #101

Another nutcase. How sad. idwiyo Jun 2013 #104

Total Fail on RFK jr's part. GoneOffShore Jun 2013 #105

Um yeah, same thing. Iggo Jun 2013 #107

Why, Bobby Jr., why? AverageJoe90 Jun 2013 #118

Yeah, it's like he doesn't trust authority figures for some reason. Bucky Jun 2013 #167

Whatever the case..... AverageJoe90 Jun 2013 #179

Disappointed to see RFK Jr. put his name down supporting this lethal woo. n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #119

This thread is filled with distortions. Read what remains online of the original pulled post. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #125

The only distgortions are coming from insane people like RFK Jr geek tragedy Jun 2013 #130

Here's a new video which provides historical evidence suggesting otherwise. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #137

Age of Autism? No thanks. Have better things to do with my time. MattBaggins Jun 2013 #178

You won't multitask and simply listen to the narration ONCE while doing something else? proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #182

Facts are indeed facts MattBaggins Jun 2013 #183

The video summarizes explosive historical findings about the first cases of autism ever documented. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #184

Just a note to say "Thank you for the link." Petrushka Jun 2013 #209

These are astonishing historical facts, aren't they? Find any alternate interpretations anywhere? proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #213

After viewing the video---and doing a bit of google searching . . . Petrushka Jun 2013 #214

Here is an even newer video AnalystInParadise Jun 2013 #196

One non sequitur deserves another. Read, then look in a mirror, please. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #212

"Well, we never liked him anyway" right? Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #138

Kick for exposure of wacky anti-vaxxers who are here on DU. zappaman Jun 2013 #140

Lack of nuance does great disservice to that argument and is out-of-date among experts except Offit. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #144

Related worthwhile thread. proverbialwisdom Jun 2013 #142

This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #153

That's my take too Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #157

This message was self-deleted by its author mother earth Jun 2013 #180

That shngles ad is telling people that they have a one in three chance of truedelphi Jun 2013 #194

he shouldn't host Ring of Fire anymore. And does he not understand science at all? alp227 Jun 2013 #158

My respect for Mr Kennedy just went down the toilet. Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #169