General Discussion

Deep13

(39,157 posts)

149. Of course he has reason to run.

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 07:52 AM

Jun 2013

The right thing in this case happens to be highly illegal. Do not confuse moral or ethical with legal. Challenging power in any form is done at great personal rick. Our Christian society values martyrdom and lionizes those who have sacrificed everything to principle. Still Jesus Christ and even the mortal MLK are pretty tough acts to follow and there is no reason to think Snowden agrees with martyrdom as an ideal. Besides, were he silenced like Manning was, the message would likely die with him.

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Edward Snowden is a man without honor. [View all] MineralMan Jun 2013 OP

There are a lot of DUers on the same email list. WilliamPitt Jun 2013 #1

I have no idea what you are talking about. MineralMan Jun 2013 #4

LOL WilliamPitt Jun 2013 #22

Sorry. I still don't have any idea. MineralMan Jun 2013 #25

No, of course you don't. WilliamPitt Jun 2013 #28

I have no idea either leftynyc Jun 2013 #146

Thus speaks the ex-freeper Katashi_itto Jun 2013 #94

But the Ron Paul fan is A-OK? baldguy Jun 2013 #112

I missed the ROn Paul fan. morningfog Jun 2013 #131

Discussion aside, I *love the clip! ROTFLOL nt silvershadow Jun 2013 #61

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #54

Didn't get the email, but if Snowden has no honor, what about our GOVERNMENT - and an oath called chimpymustgo Jun 2013 #173

You are so not kidding. sibelian Jun 2013 #8

"develop an event horizon" Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #52

?? babylonsister Jun 2013 #42

Because it isn't his own. nm Cha Jun 2013 #70

I don't think he has one on anything. Whisp Jun 2013 #174

or on the same payroll... n/t backscatter712 Jun 2013 #118

Honor means nothing Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #2

:( Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #3

If we never had oathbreakers LittleBlue Jun 2013 #5

Hear, hear CanonRay Jun 2013 #164

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #6

I was gonna say.. TransitJohn Jun 2013 #10

...nt MineralMan Jun 2013 #14

It appears telling an Obama supporter to BlueCaliDem Jun 2013 #44

It would seem to me the infiltrators would be those that are fine with the secret, wholesale spying. RC Jun 2013 #106

So what's that make the traitors who spy on America? Octafish Jun 2013 #7

Excellent questions. JEB Jun 2013 #66

THANK YOU !! YOHABLO Jun 2013 #103

What does that make the Pres pscot Jun 2013 #9

Good point Harmony Blue Jun 2013 #19

Yeah, and so is Daniel Ellsberg. Gregorian Jun 2013 #11

Secret plans should remain secret! Hissyspit Jun 2013 #26

Our government is without honor. Honorable people oppose it. scarletwoman Jun 2013 #12

What about our leaders oaths to protect the constitution? dkf Jun 2013 #13

+100 RC Jun 2013 #107

If his oath included a promise to uphold and protect the Constitution then he avebury Jun 2013 #15

Your father is a great man who should be rightfully revered for his service... Cooley Hurd Jun 2013 #16

You "singed" many papers? sibelian Jun 2013 #17

I am posting on a Kindle Fire. MineralMan Jun 2013 #21

He ran the incinerator jmowreader Jun 2013 #24

Under your logic, ANY whistle-blower who promised secrecy and later, for the good of the many, Logical Jun 2013 #18

Anyone that tells the truth Aerows Jun 2013 #36

So true here lately. Attack the messenger. n-t Logical Jun 2013 #74

No doubt German soldiers running concentration camps took had taken oaths. snot Jun 2013 #20

Mineral Man is a Freeper without Honor. bahrbearian Jun 2013 #23

...nt MineralMan Jun 2013 #27

NT to the Freeper bahrbearian Jun 2013 #29

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: It's true. MM was an avid participant in FreeRepublic L0oniX Jun 2013 #48

well ther you have it..... Pharaoh Jun 2013 #58

Chuckle! madinmaryland Jun 2013 #35

Hee Hee, Freepers NT bahrbearian Jun 2013 #38

how interesting... that explains quite a lot (or is that top secret) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #64

Have a look at post #6 for more info. idwiyo Jun 2013 #120

Ah yes. The authoritarian code. The law trumps morality. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #30

What does that make a spy agency that ignores it's country's own constitution & laws? think Jun 2013 #31

Yes, we must ALL follow orders! Pholus Jun 2013 #32

Too many boxes in his garage Aerows Jun 2013 #33

Since you worked for the NSA in the 60s how many Vietnamese did you help kill? former9thward Jun 2013 #34

Nothing I did there had anything to do MineralMan Jun 2013 #37

But did Nixon give you a Medal? bahrbearian Jun 2013 #41

No. MineralMan Jun 2013 #43

Duty ,does that mean on your Knees. bahrbearian Jun 2013 #45

Nope. It means that I was an orderly one day. MineralMan Jun 2013 #47

Real classy. randome Jun 2013 #57

I'd like to know what the fuck you mean by that remark. jaysunb Jun 2013 #63

You have got to be kidding. former9thward Jun 2013 #68

No I'm not kidding jaysunb Jun 2013 #71

Most people who fought in Vietnam were drafted. They had no choice. former9thward Jun 2013 #81

Only 1/3 of Vietnam-era veterans, and less than a quarter of Vietnam veterans, were drafted Recursion Jun 2013 #143

All the people who went to Vietnam that I knew were drafted and I knew a lot. former9thward Jun 2013 #168

I lived in San Diego with 2 Vietnam Vets in 1979 ConcernedCanuk Jun 2013 #125

my view is a bit different than yours steve2470 Jun 2013 #39

Very well said. n/t RiverLover Jun 2013 #104

thank you ! nt steve2470 Jun 2013 #105

I respect you, but I can not agree with my country when wrong. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2013 #40

There are ways to disagree. MineralMan Jun 2013 #46

The previous NSA whistleblowers didn't get anywhere by going through the legal channels. dkf Jun 2013 #122

And some of them released the information to the public. MineralMan Jun 2013 #161

What is he? Jesus? Ready to be tortured for this damned country? dkf Jun 2013 #165

Wait. So now you're saying if had stuck around it would have been OK? progressoid Jun 2013 #133

bullshit pasto76 Jun 2013 #49

Greenwald admitted to talking with Snowden before his latest gig at the NSA. randome Jun 2013 #53

That's interesting. Have any sources? GoneFishin Jun 2013 #56

Links. randome Jun 2013 #59

That does not make the prism spying debacle any better. quakerboy Jun 2013 #76

Yeah, good point. The privatization bullshit needs to stop. randome Jun 2013 #86

I wonder if Wikileaks was involved with this from the beginning. n/t pnwmom Jun 2013 #96

Nothing to indicate that but it's interesting speculation. randome Jun 2013 #157

Put my opinion down as one that differs. rug Jun 2013 #50

Your father is absolutely right. Keeping your word is paramount. But like a contract that is GoneFishin Jun 2013 #51

"I gave my word and my oath." Vinnie From Indy Jun 2013 #55

frankly, I do not care DonCoquixote Jun 2013 #60

We Will Have To Agree To Disagree - The Death Of The 4th Amendment Is Very Important To Many cantbeserious Jun 2013 #62

And Washington D.C., And Wall Street, Are Filled With HUNDREDS Of The Same, At The HIGHEST Levels... WillyT Jun 2013 #65

You, Mineral Man, lied to my face about your history of posting anti gay crap all over the Bluenorthwest Jun 2013 #67

+1 idwiyo Jun 2013 #114

But, he ran off to China and helped them out and now he's Cha Jun 2013 #69

The Kardashians are withour honor as well. East Coast Pirate Jun 2013 #72

By your definition, the SS were men of honor. Daemonaquila Jun 2013 #73

+ Democracy Octafish Jun 2013 #117

Actually, it's the elected officials of the Bush and Obama administrations JDPriestly Jun 2013 #75

I forgive you for whatever horrible things you did for the NSA in the 60's. DefenseLawyer Jun 2013 #77

+1 - and a traitor to his country Politicub Jun 2013 #78

That's the best you've got? "He signed many statements..." Apophis Jun 2013 #79

Snowden was a systems administrator, not an intelligence analyst. randome Jun 2013 #83

So, if he didn't see a thing... NealK Jun 2013 #99

Are you asking why the Administration wants to stop him giving secrets away? randome Jun 2013 #155

Honor? Who gives a rat's ass about honor? morningfog Jun 2013 #80

yes he is. madrchsod Jun 2013 #82

I agree and respect one who can honor their oath Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #84

That's a talking point myth that has been debunked by prior leakers who tried those "options" and GoneFishin Jun 2013 #116

that makes no sense Blue_Roses Jun 2013 #138

I never met him so I couldn't really know much about him personally NoOneMan Jun 2013 #85

I see your point - if we have to choose between living under a surveillance state with no discussion Douglas Carpenter Jun 2013 #87

Those days of honor are behind us. Nt galileoreloaded Jun 2013 #88

you make an important distinction Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #89

He needed a "code red" Gitmo style Puzzledtraveller Jun 2013 #90

You want mineral man on that wall!! DefenseLawyer Jun 2013 #92

I'm sure there are quite a lot of DUers bound by these same commitments matt819 Jun 2013 #91

I was an E-4 in the USAF. MineralMan Jun 2013 #151

I do have a different opinion MNBrewer Jun 2013 #93

Thus the American Revolution was a war without honor. mhatrw Jun 2013 #95

I'll leave you with this: bobclark86 Jun 2013 #97

If the NSA were turning into the Stasi in your day would you have had the balls to stand up to them? Ford_Prefect Jun 2013 #98

So keep one's word no matter what. RoccoR5955 Jun 2013 #100

it does HiPointDem Jun 2013 #101

If there was only a way to get this to him. Union Scribe Jun 2013 #102

You are correct in all save one point. sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #108

Absolutely? In every circumstance? primavera Jun 2013 #109

Interesting reasoning. Coccydynia Jun 2013 #110

Honor is a value from the past. It has little currency in today's world. Kablooie Jun 2013 #111

Yea, trying to be honorable sulphurdunn Jun 2013 #113

Unless you are independently wealthy you will eventually go hungry without it nolabels Jun 2013 #119

Doesn't the oath include the phrase backscatter712 Jun 2013 #115

Wrong, wrong, wrong. GoneOffShore Jun 2013 #121

No honor in running to Ecuador railsback Jun 2013 #123

I would rather he'd have honored his oath and if he had information with an overwhelming need.... marble falls Jun 2013 #124

Exactly. If he felt that what he knew was so important MineralMan Jun 2013 #153

Not an unreasonable position, I don't understand why some of us here don't get it. marble falls Jun 2013 #160

Lulz. TransitJohn Jun 2013 #126

Honor= Selflessly doing the right thing no matter what it costs you. Bonobo Jun 2013 #127

If that were true railsback Jun 2013 #128

Why? Deep13 Jun 2013 #130

If he were 'selflessly' doing the right thing railsback Jun 2013 #136

Of course he has reason to run. Deep13 Jun 2013 #149

Self preservation railsback Jun 2013 #166

That's not true. Bonobo Jun 2013 #132

Self sacrifice railsback Jun 2013 #135

Leaving one's country, one's family, one's lover, one's life... Bonobo Jun 2013 #140

Wow. That's some insight into Snowden's personality. railsback Jun 2013 #144

Self sacrifice or running out? Running away is clouding the real issue: government invasion of marble falls Jun 2013 #162

So what? Deep13 Jun 2013 #129

And you are a man without shame. Maven Jun 2013 #134

! idwiyo Jun 2013 #163

Snowden is an arsehole. HipChick Jun 2013 #137

Dick Cheney. delrem Jun 2013 #139

This place is getting scary weird; the Nazi-like moral disconnects are truly frightening. Zorra Jun 2013 #141

Fair argument, as far as it goes. Savannahmann Jun 2013 #142

If Snowden had information he believed had to be shared, MineralMan Jun 2013 #156

I don't care about Snowden. It's not about him. It's about the spying! Scuba Jun 2013 #145

So if you found something Dorian Gray Jun 2013 #147

I did not discover such information. I declined a job MineralMan Jun 2013 #158

While he has leaked some leftynyc Jun 2013 #148

I'm not going to rehash that stuff. MineralMan Jun 2013 #159

And MineralMan is an HonorableMan (nt) muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #150

... The Link Jun 2013 #152

Luckily Stauffenberg disagreed about this conception of honor. Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #154

And the concept of honor was very strong in the Old South kmart2 Jun 2013 #167

Welcome to DU! silvershadow Jun 2013 #170

Wow, way to tar yourself Hydra Jun 2013 #169

When Constitution and secondary oath conflict, WHICH GETS YOUR HONOR? Festivito Jun 2013 #171

That's simple. If that conflict arose, which it did not MineralMan Jun 2013 #172

Clearly a case of "do as I say, not as I do". idwiyo Jun 2013 #176

Username + topic of this OP = Comedy Central! Thank you for the laugh. idwiyo Jun 2013 #175