General Discussion

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)

71. "He wasn't out looking to kill someone"...

Thu Jun 27, 2013, 05:43 PM

Jun 2013

..."for shits and giggles".

I agree with you on that, at least I agree that we have no evidence that he started out with the intent to kill.

That's why the charge is second-degree murder rather than first-degree murder: no evidence of premeditation.

Manslaughter is more of an accidental killing kind of thing, with the degrees dependent on how blatantly the offender disregarded the danger of what they were doing.

I think second-degree murder is a reasonable charge in this case, as there is little evidence IMO that Zimmerman's life was in danger OR that he could have reasonably thought it was.

Whatever you think of our gun culture, when it comes down to it we try cases one by one. So it is irrelevant to this case. What is relevant is the facts of the case, and the motivations as far as they can be discerned.

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Zimmerman is guilty of involuntary manslaughter, at most [View all] Uzair Jun 2013 OP

Oh boy, this ought to be good, premium Jun 2013 #1

care to share? CatWoman Jun 2013 #2

Me three LittleBlue Jun 2013 #5

I'll buy you a beer. premium Jun 2013 #6

ummmmmmmmmm CatWoman Jun 2013 #31

"The cause of and the solution to Aerows Jun 2013 #76

!!!!!! CatWoman Jun 2013 #98

Yup. REP Jun 2013 #67

MOSS!!!!!! all american girl Jun 2013 #105

Can you pass the butter, please Aerows Jun 2013 #73

No problemo, premium Jun 2013 #82

*grin* Aerows Jun 2013 #83

I know there are a lot of racist crazies out there who will excuse any killing of minorities... EOTE Jun 2013 #3

Must be nice in la la land Uzair Jun 2013 #30

If they want plausible deniability, they do. EOTE Jun 2013 #32

The Cops told him to leave him alone and he didn't. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #55

Actually it was a 911 Dispatcher Dub-V-You Jun 2013 #66

He did not need to do it and he did. He was told to not follow and he did. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #68

The timelines I've seen show that Zimmerman lost sight of Trayvon while on the phone with 911 Dub-V-You Jun 2013 #70

There was no reason to follow Trayvon. He was not doing anything. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #72

If I had a number of break ins in my neighborhood and was in the same situation Dub-V-You Jun 2013 #79

Why because he is black? hrmjustin Jun 2013 #81

I don't find black people particularly suspicious. It would be a matter of circumstances Dub-V-You Jun 2013 #87

What what did this kid who was armed with Skittles and soft drink do that he got murdered? hrmjustin Jun 2013 #91

He was walking through back yards, or behind houses in a neighborhood that Dub-V-You Jun 2013 #99

How do you know he was going through backyards? Zimmerman says so. He has no hrmjustin Jun 2013 #101

according to the testimony he took a short cut DesertFlower Jun 2013 #115

still no right to shoot and kill somebody fascisthunter Jun 2013 #126

zimmerman didn't take the shortcut. trayvon did. DesertFlower Jun 2013 #158

still no right to.... murder someone fascisthunter Jun 2013 #180

He was walking down the street when Zimmy started following him. Then he cut into the back yards uppityperson Jun 2013 #167

There is one thing I don't understand Travis_0004 Jun 2013 #97

Would you lead a strange guy to a 12 year old home alone? displacedtexan Jun 2013 #125

You don't lead a creepy pervert JimDandy Jun 2013 #138

No, he didn't run and hide Boudica the Lyoness Jul 2013 #182

After leaving the mailbox area JimDandy Jul 2013 #184

Obviously he didn't lose sight of Trayvon and followed him until he shot him. lumpy Jun 2013 #100

And I think you listen to the dispatcher. AngryOldDem Jun 2013 #171

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #178

Negros? You are a George Zimmerman supporter and you use the term "negros"? Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #117

I'm a facts supporter Uzair Jun 2013 #132

The problem for you is I have read books, I have read plenty on civil rights Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #142

WOW Uzair Jun 2013 #145

Oh yes you did use that word Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #148

READ. A. BOOK. Uzair Jun 2013 #150

Yes, you were ascribing it in a racist manor Bjorn Against Jun 2013 #154

I can't talk to you Uzair Jun 2013 #175

Yes, he's a racist. Arkana Jun 2013 #176

Forget popcorn, time for a Noob-b-cue NightWatcher Jun 2013 #4

This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Jun 2013 #15

I can't believe this post doesn't have more recs! NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #20

I just rec'd it premium Jun 2013 #29

I rec'd it for you again Aerows Jun 2013 #92

Well played, premium Jun 2013 #94

+1000. premium Jun 2013 #23

Whenever I carve a "U" in stone it always looks like a "V". Kurovski Jun 2013 #43

No, it's not just you. pintobean Jun 2013 #54

I think we'll be seeing wings Aerows Jun 2013 #86

This one is hardly alone Cirque du So-What Jun 2013 #109

Second degree murder is a murder that is not premeditated or planned in advance. Ptah Jun 2013 #7

I'm not sure how they clinch this one.. manslaughter would be easier to prove Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #88

There is no scenario in which Z is "completely innocent," as TM is DEAD. And "premeditation" doesn't WinkyDink Jun 2013 #8

Except in Florida - "Stand Your Ground" ksoze Jun 2013 #13

Trayvon Martin was the one standing his ground. EOTE Jun 2013 #34

Exactly. The only one entitled to claim stand your ground was Trayvon. aquart Jun 2013 #102

i agree. nt DesertFlower Jun 2013 #116

Riddle me this: AngryOldDem Jun 2013 #170

Really. Please educate me what Martin was doing wrong, and why Zimmerman should confront him in the still_one Jun 2013 #9

Involuntary manslaughter would have been if his gun accidentally went off. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #10

I'd been wondering why Control-Z Jun 2013 #69

Yes, he's 2nd degree Aerows Jun 2013 #89

I agree, 1st degree murder would have been extremely difficult to prove davidpdx Jun 2013 #162

thank you.. have wondered about this Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #90

There is still the point that the police at the 911 call question everything Jun 2013 #11

Anyone who disagrees with you is "living in a fantasy world" tkmorris Jun 2013 #12

Opinions versus facts Uzair Jun 2013 #134

Goof WovenGems Jun 2013 #157

Zimmerman was/is a hero in his own mind snooper2 Jun 2013 #14

Since you have a time machine that has allowed you to hear all the evidence and testimony onenote Jun 2013 #16

This is a hate crime. Any white kid walking around Zimmerman's complex would still be alive. NYC_SKP Jun 2013 #17

Nah some black guy would have shot that poor white kid walking the neighborhood... npk Jun 2013 #53

I agree and disagree with aspects of your post. NM_Birder Jun 2013 #63

If color was irrelevant to Zimmerman, stranger81 Jun 2013 #133

Don't know... NM_Birder Jun 2013 #139

Yeah. Sure. Never the gun's fault. Uzair Jun 2013 #135

Just yesterday a gun cut me off in traffic ! NM_Birder Jun 2013 #141

Zimmerman stalked Martin with a gun and then shot him dead. Zimmerman is guilty. n/t Tx4obama Jun 2013 #18

Au contraire mon ami tularetom Jun 2013 #19

He pointed the gun at the kid and shot him. HappyMe Jun 2013 #21

Yup bigwillq Jun 2013 #24

I think some other things happened before that... Pelican Jun 2013 #165

"all the hullaballoo" is what television does. high viewership means more money. stlsaxman Jun 2013 #177

Yeah I don't think so. bravenak Jun 2013 #22

American gun culture didn't shoot that kid, Zimmerman did. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #25

really? burnodo Jun 2013 #38

Yeah, I don't think this was a premeditated killing. Comrade Grumpy Jun 2013 #46

once he decided to pursue Martin with a gun, it became premeditated burnodo Jun 2013 #52

Murder 2 is not premeditated. ieoeja Jun 2013 #58

I think it was premeditated notadmblnd Jun 2013 #60

How long is long enough for premeditation? geckosfeet Jun 2013 #119

That's a good question and I don't have an answer notadmblnd Jun 2013 #120

he is at least guilty of negligent homicide but more likely 2nd degree murder arely staircase Jun 2013 #26

"everyone who thinks otherwise is living in a fantasy world" jberryhill Jun 2013 #27

He's guilty of whatever the prosecution is able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2013 #28

^^^This^^^. nt. premium Jun 2013 #37

Yes. (nt) Kurovski Jun 2013 #39

Nice sane response. I'll 840high Jun 2013 #136

at the very least he is completely innocent? burnodo Jun 2013 #33

You should probably look at the laws on taking a life before making that assertion. last1standing Jun 2013 #35

wow, I guess a bunch of people told you that librechik Jun 2013 #36

I see this OP went over really well. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #40

It's fun kicking back, premium Jun 2013 #47

I was looking at the General Discussion page and I saw how quickly the number of reply's came. hrmjustin Jun 2013 #51

Why Zimmerman might go free? cheyanne Jun 2013 #41

What a crock of crap. When you deliberately go looking for trouble as he did hobbit709 Jun 2013 #42

So the OP drops this turd HappyMe Jun 2013 #45

I think this proves the OP is a racist burnodo Jun 2013 #48

Florida Law Sgent Jun 2013 #44

He brought a loaded gun. Stalked him. Confronted him. Attacked him. Killed him. aquart Jun 2013 #96

Only if the shooting was an accident, or he didn't intend to kill him when he shot. ieoeja Jun 2013 #49

Thank you. Tommy_Carcetti Jun 2013 #56

2nd degree murder. kentuck Jun 2013 #50

Trayvon was guilty of walking while black. Zimmerman has to live with the fact that he killed a 17 Pisces Jun 2013 #57

Are you.posting nonsense like this just to get a rise out of the people?? darkangel218 Jun 2013 #59

It could well have been second-degree murder, but I don't think the evidence is there Nye Bevan Jun 2013 #61

Yeah... you keep believing that BklnDem75 Jun 2013 #62

Both sides have a story or version of the events... Whiskeytide Jun 2013 #64

That's pretty much how I broke it down as well. tavernier Jun 2013 #156

It's flat out not possible to beat the shit out of someone and bloody his nose without getting eridani Jun 2013 #172

Take your troll ass back under the bridge. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #65

"He wasn't out looking to kill someone"... ljm2002 Jun 2013 #71

prejudice is not just noise. nt La Lioness Priyanka Jun 2013 #74

If you're correct, reflection Jun 2013 #75

I dont believe in trial in the media, or the internet markiv Jun 2013 #77

Zimmerman voluntarily pointed his gun at an unarmed teen and shot him in the chest. magical thyme Jun 2013 #78

Hmmmmmmmmmm malaise Jun 2013 #80

Racist pig stalks and kills young black kid with skittles and ice tea, not guilty? we can do it Jun 2013 #84

I don't consider him innocent. I do consider him reckless and really stupid. Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #85

Yes HockeyMom Jun 2013 #93

thanks. "depraved mind" is a difficult thing to prove I would imagine Voice for Peace Jun 2013 #95

LOL, Ok! n-t Logical Jun 2013 #103

There was nothing involuntary about the fact that he chased and shot the teen. PDJane Jun 2013 #104

If I start a "Rick Perry was right" thread, I wonder if I will get MidwestTransplant Jun 2013 #106

Depends on what you think he was right about Aerows Jun 2013 #108

No sir. Can't agree with anything you said. With the possible exception geckosfeet Jun 2013 #107

"American gun laws and culture are not on trial." But they should be! rdharma Jun 2013 #110

Possibly. But that is not what this case is about. geckosfeet Jun 2013 #118

On a secondary level, yes. But the actual perpetrator of this crime is still first and foremost nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #143

another low post count pro-zimmerman troll...yawn noiretextatique Jun 2013 #111

2nd degree minimum, for accosting a child with hostile intent (n/t) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #112

Punishing him by sending him to prison for his reckless disregard for human life notadmblnd Jun 2013 #113

hmmm...one post, many replies, but the poster hasn't responded to any of them noiretextatique Jun 2013 #114

Yes. I think you are correct. rdharma Jun 2013 #122

Hit-and-run posts should be severely punished, damn it! nomorenomore08 Jun 2013 #144

it just confirms noiretextatique Jun 2013 #179

he followe Trayvon. he profiled him. cali Jun 2013 #121

Oh for Christ's sake Uzair Jun 2013 #137

yes, I think he did. what is it with the likes of YOU? cali Jun 2013 #140

No Uzair Jun 2013 #146

Did he have to follow him? No, of course not cali Jun 2013 #147

His actions are of an idiot with a gun and a Hero complex Uzair Jun 2013 #151

I don't think it matters that he wasn't playing 'surviving the game'. bravenak Jun 2013 #160

"you people" pintobean Jun 2013 #159

This Zimmerman thing bringing them all out Kingofalldems Jun 2013 #123

. demmiblue Jun 2013 #124

Nope. TransitJohn Jun 2013 #127

Oh really? What if Trayvon was the one yelling "help me, help me" while Zimmerman applegrove Jun 2013 #128

I heard something similar over the radio. Beacool Jun 2013 #129

Since your in charge of the universe, you do somthing about the.... orpupilofnature57 Jun 2013 #130

You say Apophis Jun 2013 #131

He followed the boy with a locked and loaded gun in his pocket, apples and oranges Jun 2013 #149

I'm unapologetically saying Zimmerman is a murderer. Whether he is convicted is another matter. Lint Head Jun 2013 #152

YOUR opinion. Lex Jun 2013 #153

zimmerman is in my opinion guilty of murder samsingh Jun 2013 #155

"guilty of involuntary manslaughter, at most"? Why not disturbing the peace? AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #161

It's been a long time since I've been called a Negro. Who knew? Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #163

legalize Lonnie Anderson's hair. H2O Man Jun 2013 #164

what an unmitigated crock of shit spanone Jun 2013 #166

I'm on the fence on this one OwnedByCats Jun 2013 #168

This was a situation that Zimmerman created. AngryOldDem Jun 2013 #169

I think you're probably right. Captain Stern Jun 2013 #173

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #174

C'mon, Uzair '...a paranoid gun freak like most Americans'? That won't wash. Most people don't stalk freshwest Jul 2013 #181

Uzair has been PPRed pintobean Jul 2013 #183