General Discussion

Liberal_Stalwart71

(20,450 posts)

58. I agree too, 1StrongBlackMan. Reasoned arguments. That's what I looking for. Not hyperbole.

Reply to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #47)

Sun Jun 30, 2013, 09:56 AM

Jun 2013

Not over-the-top claims about how government sucks. Just reasoned arguments.

Thank you!!!

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Get One Thing Clear: NSA Domestic Spy Op Is FASCISM [View all] Octafish Jun 2013 OP

So much Corporate influence on our government. I'm not sure who is running things anymore. sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #1

Banksters plus secret inside information is Wall Street on the Potomac. Octafish Jun 2013 #3

I guess ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #47

I agree too, 1StrongBlackMan. Reasoned arguments. That's what I looking for. Not hyperbole. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #58

Can you think of any instance in which broad, domestic spying in a country JDPriestly Jun 2013 #142

East Germany was a (non-fascist) surveillance state. Chef Eric Jun 2013 #155

Agreed. They moved beyond surveillance to repression, but JDPriestly Jun 2013 #186

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #187

I think your post used fascism. I could be wrong. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #189

I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #191

We need more transparency about this program than we have. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #229

"What kind of democracy needs this much secrecy?" Enthusiast Jun 2013 #56

You forgot secret, unaccountable, and extra-judicial executions. nt Demo_Chris Jun 2013 #204

That kind of secrecy contradicts democracy. delrem Jul 2013 #228

No it's not ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #2

What FDR said. Octafish Jun 2013 #5

Said the man responsible for Japanese internment camps loyalsister Jun 2013 #57

Here's another example of a well-reasoned, well thought-out argument. Thank you!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #59

Be prepared, I have been told lately that the Constitution is not the law of the land. That sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #216

IMHO, FDR was the best president we've ever had, but he made mistakes. Horrible mistakes!!! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #220

That is a lack of historical context speaking. Pholus Jul 2013 #233

Don't think I'm naive about the history of the New Deal. I'm not suggesting that there NEVER Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2013 #239

Sorry, I didn't get your entire argument then. Pholus Jul 2013 #252

Link to where any DUer called FDR the worst president ever. zappaman Jun 2013 #222

We may understand the action hootinholler Jun 2013 #82

"we have the benefit of hindsight" loyalsister Jun 2013 #116

I can only show you the well hootinholler Jun 2013 #126

I'm not afraid loyalsister Jun 2013 #131

Logic doesn't mean correct. hootinholler Jun 2013 #146

We are far more likely to die for lack of Health Care in this country than from a terror attack. The sabrina 1 Jun 2013 #224

Is it possible loyalsister Jul 2013 #225

and in protest, you're giving up your social security benefits, right? frylock Jun 2013 #183

Yeah that's what I said loyalsister Jun 2013 #210

"I think most people understand that action based on the conditions." - no delrem Jul 2013 #227

No? loyalsister Jul 2013 #241

How is this private power stronger than the Democratic State? treestar Jun 2013 #72

You have an illusion of democracy. An inverted totalitarianism. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #158

I think you and I are probably breaking on opposite sides of the NSA issues, but I wanted HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #177

Fascism is the merging of corporatism with the state,. private control, not a single dictator. Civilization2 Jun 2013 #206

Labels are a tricky thing and defining labels trickier still. Robert O. Paxton, in HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #232

words are defined through usage,. not one mans opinion. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #236

You argue that Bush's voluntary relinquishing of power means nothing because said power HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #240

Fact is they don't have to whisk us off to a gulag,. so why bother. They are confidant that,. Civilization2 Jul 2013 #245

Naturally, the corporatists here will be not only denying that definition, and using strawmen Zorra Jun 2013 #81

The Earth IS flat! randome Jun 2013 #86

That's what Thomas Friedman says. Octafish Jun 2013 #98

Actually to do anything usefull in GIS systems hootinholler Jun 2013 #148

Ah-ha! The Flat Earthers were right all along! randome Jun 2013 #156

true that. blackspade Jun 2013 #169

Or maybe you should Phlem Jun 2013 #6

It's defined perfectly in a post above here. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #136

you mean this? Phlem Jun 2013 #154

The post was ABOVE, you did not read it. You know what you know that's for sure. xtraxritical Jun 2013 #182

There are several posts above including the OP. Phlem Jun 2013 #199

Do you know... OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #13

I'll take Oct's over hers any day. snot Jun 2013 #22

Just noticed a similarity in writing. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #24

or the same database Skittles Jun 2013 #26

Or chair. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #27

I don't think those two are the same Skittles Jun 2013 #28

"by-the-rules"? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #190

yes; Pro sticks to a formula Skittles Jun 2013 #193

Oh ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #194

but it is suspect to always, ALWAYS be in the same mode Skittles Jun 2013 #198

Who gives a shit about a DUer who doesn't measure up to your standards? randome Jun 2013 #217

WTF are YOU talking about?? Skittles Jun 2013 #218

But what if the dish was tender, flavorsome and made wonderful gravy? delrem Jul 2013 #230

STOP IT DELREM Skittles Jul 2013 #231

Or staff. Fuddnik Jun 2013 #159

See ...you found a use for the NSA ...find out if they are the same person. L0oniX Jun 2013 #125

Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Jun 2013 #45

Its not ProSense, there is no blue links. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #130

Mussolini himself described it best Fuddnik Jun 2013 #157

Stasi is a very apt comparison. If I remember it right, truedelphi Jun 2013 #166

And the NSA is part of the Defense Department too neverforget Jun 2013 #4

Fed...managed and operated... Octafish Jun 2013 #7

There's a lot of money to be made in security, intelligence and war. neverforget Jun 2013 #9

The Bush disaster family, everywhere you look, everywhere something stinks, every time you follow Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #11

Thanks, Fire Walk With Me. Absolutely. Here's new URL... Octafish Jun 2013 #18

+1000! snot Jun 2013 #20

Excellent, thank you very much! n/t Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #23

Excellent, thank you. sibelian Jun 2013 #37

Mandatory kick for mentioning LOMBARDI! Democracyinkind Jun 2013 #52

+1 leftstreet Jun 2013 #73

Thank you, Fire Walk, for ALL your excellent work. snot Jun 2013 #21

+1 Octafish Jun 2013 #108

True, but ignorance is so blissful. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #164

The Carlyle Group just bought Getty Images siligut Jun 2013 #201

It is the dawning of the age of the perilous download. Octafish Jun 2013 #202

Making the Internet a dangerous place to be is their only recourse siligut Jun 2013 #213

WHAT!? Oh shit. Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #209

The Secretary of Defense is the author of HAVA. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #14

that pesky cabinet of rivals approach bobduca Jun 2013 #44

Except Lincoln's cabinet of rivals were truebluegreen Jun 2013 #215

We didn't do this when we had actual enemy agents here during WWII. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #17

A point lost on many. Thank you. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #61

Ike saw it coming.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #95

Didn't do what? Collect phone metadata records? randome Jun 2013 #83

Do you honestly believe there wasn't a drive back then to collect info on EVERYONE? Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #91

Much of this debate hinges on how technology has changed the landscape. randome Jun 2013 #93

It's the ATTITUDE. The tools are irrelevant.... Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #101

K&R! Fire Walk With Me Jun 2013 #8

''Money trumps peace.'' -- George Walker Bush*, ''president'' of the United States, Feb. 14, 2007 Octafish Jun 2013 #128

Save your energy, consumers! johnnyreb Jun 2013 #10

Outstanding poem, yours, johnnyreb! Thank you. Octafish Jul 2013 #249

Okay, it's fascism. It's been fascism for 12 years. You just noticed? ucrdem Jun 2013 #12

i remember a guy who persuaded me to vote for him - truedelphi Jun 2013 #32

They've been linked to that, and the Duggan case a thousand times treestar Jun 2013 #74

He doesn't seem to understand any of the issues and instead erects a strawman. reusrename Jun 2013 #87

What issues does he not understand? What strawman? ucrdem Jun 2013 #99

Correct, it is a strawman construction. reusrename Jun 2013 #122

This is all very nice but read the piece. All three of your "primary concerns" are addressed, ucrdem Jun 2013 #129

Erroneous? reusrename Jun 2013 #141

That's great! StevenLeser is a excellent DUer! Octafish Jul 2013 #250

Hitler or Stalin, Right or Left matters not. This is Police State Authoritarianism. Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2013 #15

Don't doubt, the genesis of this can be traced. delrem Jun 2013 #16

We should acknowledge the existence of a "shadow government" that transcends administrations. reusrename Jun 2013 #48

Iran-Contra was a breakthrough. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #65

Lawbreaking is the new technology. reusrename Jun 2013 #69

Now we have a fraud-based economy marions ghost Jun 2013 #114

Your fraud is my freedom of speech. reusrename Jun 2013 #119

It's frightening, pathetic, laughable that this even needs to be said. snot Jun 2013 #19

Agree, totally. That's why I spend time posting on DU. Most people have no idea... Octafish Jun 2013 #163

Jean Seberg was hounded by the FBI and blacklisted by Hollywood SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #25

She was treated like trash, like public enemy #1. Monstrous. Judi Lynn Jun 2013 #34

You're welcome. I think it's worth spreading around. SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #178

Very interesting. Thank you, SleeplessinSoCal......nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #67

I recall that she committed suicide, but had no idea about the circumstances and what might have SleeplessinSoCal Jun 2013 #175

This is really odd. After posting this yesterday, Cinemoi was removed from our lineup SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2013 #259

Whats insane is that some are okay with it. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #29

+1 HiPointDem Jun 2013 #30

It is fascism, with a lack of opposition from virtually all of our politicians. AnotherMcIntosh Jun 2013 #31

Yes, and some here have agreed with me tht it is all truedelphi Jun 2013 #33

I think the trend is to try to wield power vigorously, to show the US American people Judi Lynn Jun 2013 #35

The fact that you are freely complaining about it here... brooklynite Jun 2013 #36

Does "Freely complaining" really mean free speech? fasttense Jun 2013 #40

And how has your ability to "petition and organize" been affected? brooklynite Jun 2013 #43

It's precisely Fascism. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #76

Then organize and petition for redress of wrongs treestar Jun 2013 #75

How? NSA watches, FBI disrupts, CIA assassinates... Octafish Jun 2013 #106

You are really afraid to organize and petition for redress of wrongs treestar Jun 2013 #112

Obviously you have never tried to organize and petition marions ghost Jun 2013 #117

Petty personal issue you are making of it treestar Jun 2013 #120

"Lots of political activists and groups..." marions ghost Jun 2013 #127

that's pretty vague treestar Jun 2013 #132

I'm suggesting you talk to someone whose face you can see marions ghost Jun 2013 #149

Glad you've noticed. I've posted on this topic on DU since September 12, 2001. Octafish Jun 2013 #121

So what has happened to you treestar Jun 2013 #123

What posts of mine in the Creative Speculation forum? Octafish Jun 2013 #135

"as fewer DUers can see them' zappaman Jun 2013 #139

Traffic. More eyeballs on General Discussion. Octafish Jun 2013 #144

Nope. zappaman Jun 2013 #145

It suggests a dictablanda nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #50

Philippines 1971-1975 brooklynite Jun 2013 #63

Nope, think Mexico nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #66

Brooklynite lived in a dictatorship treestar Jun 2013 #78

isn't a dictatorship different than fascism? Phlem Jun 2013 #160

Like this Phlem Jun 2013 #161

Thanks for that perspective treestar Jun 2013 #77

BTW-forgot to mention the curfew and the military checkpoints brooklynite Jun 2013 #90

+1000 Narkos Jun 2013 #53

Do you even know the meaning of Fascism? DCBob Jun 2013 #38

Here, from the horses's mouth nadinbrzezinski Jun 2013 #49

i see that now and for the last 50 years. tomp Jun 2013 #51

Well said! nt Enthusiast Jun 2013 #79

"fool people into thinking they're free".. actually.. DCBob Jun 2013 #109

Well, that's a relief, isn't it? sibelian Jul 2013 #251

100% agree nt temmer Jul 2013 #244

That's a pretty lame definition... nebenaube Jun 2013 #92

take it up with Merriam-Webster. DCBob Jun 2013 #110

Which edition? nebenaube Jun 2013 #151

You think it's bad now, just wait a decade or two eShirl Jun 2013 #39

Show us the evidence that NSA runs a domestic spy op. randome Jun 2013 #41

Forgot so soon? Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #84

I made my response about Binney, who has been out of the NSA picture for some time. randome Jun 2013 #100

He said that that "capability" was USED ON HIM! Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #104

Where does he say that? I don't see it. randome Jun 2013 #113

Quote from the first link... Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #143

No, you show they aren't because based on human history you are the one actually making the TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #234

More transparency, less secrecy. That's what we need. randome Jul 2013 #237

It's all good. They just do it to protect us. RedCappedBandit Jun 2013 #42

knr forestpath Jun 2013 #46

No, that is YOUR opinion Narkos Jun 2013 #54

True. Absolutely true. Based on FACT. Octafish Jun 2013 #195

Opinion pieces, conspiracy theories Narkos Jun 2013 #203

So, you didn't use the Google? Octafish Jun 2013 #205

No need. You think America is the 4th Reich? Narkos Jun 2013 #208

Loot. Enthusiast Jun 2013 #55

The NSA is the least of it. baldguy Jun 2013 #60

I always refer to Dr. Lawrence Britt's 14 characteristics of fascism... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #62

Used to see that a lot during Bushco post 911 treestar Jun 2013 #80

The Logic of the Surveillance State -->> nashville_brook Jun 2013 #64

Paranoia strikes deep moondust Jun 2013 #68

I think we can cite several preemptive raids nebenaube Jun 2013 #94

You mean crowd control? moondust Jun 2013 #96

actually, it was... nebenaube Jun 2013 #111

Good find treestar Jun 2013 #184

we're not there yet but neverforget Jun 2013 #70

That is known as global plutonomy and plutarchy. Zorra Jun 2013 #71

Even the old style fascism only exploited nationalism as a means to power. kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #89

Very well said, thanks. nt Zorra Jun 2013 #103

But it's the Good Kind! kenny blankenship Jun 2013 #85

See Details On PRISM Tasking And Sources Here cantbeserious Jun 2013 #88

It's another step towards fascism, yes. Apophis Jun 2013 #97

Some of us keep missing the foreign targets part of this. Progressive dog Jun 2013 #102

You might find this Democracy Now interview interesting. Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #150

You might want to see when Binney last had access to the policies Progressive dog Jun 2013 #165

It's such a drag when Amy Goodman interviews irrelevant people just for the hell of it. n/t Waiting For Everyman Jun 2013 #172

Yes it is nt Progressive dog Jun 2013 #192

K & R !!! WillyT Jun 2013 #105

Corruption marions ghost Jun 2013 #107

It is FUCKING FASCISM ~nt~ b.durruti Jun 2013 #115

How will the Facists running our government run a single payer health care system? JoePhilly Jun 2013 #118

Its already happening. darkangel218 Jun 2013 #133

You and Sarah Palin agree on 'death panels?' leftstreet Jun 2013 #147

Apparently they are going to ... JoePhilly Jun 2013 #152

Really? zappaman Jun 2013 #124

Frank Zappa, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky once got a few seconds to talk about it on TV. Octafish Jun 2013 #140

Clear? On the Road Jun 2013 #134

I should have included a link... Octafish Jun 2013 #179

B-b-b-but it's LEEEEEEEEGAL!!! backscatter712 Jun 2013 #137

Oh, backscatter.... sibelian Jul 2013 #253

K&R woo me with science Jun 2013 #138

Remember how demonstrators in Iran felix_numinous Jun 2013 #153

they want The Evidence... marions ghost Jun 2013 #167

Thanks for responding felix_numinous Jun 2013 #168

IIRC, only 800 people were arrested and only 4 killed in order to put down the uprising in Iran. reusrename Jun 2013 #170

Thanks for the information, felix_numinous Jun 2013 #176

Considerably different system we have compared to Iran's treestar Jun 2013 #185

So far. felix_numinous Jun 2013 #188

But..but...it's "not as bad" Fascism unlike the Republican brand of Fascism. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2013 #162

Progressive fascism is different. reusrename Jun 2013 #171

No it is not, Fascism intaglio Jun 2013 #173

Whew! At least we have a label for it. I was losing sleep trying to think of one. Buzz Clik Jun 2013 #174

In general, I like what you write and would strongly defend against HardTimes99 Jun 2013 #180

No it isn't. I don't approve of these programs. But its not fascism. phleshdef Jun 2013 #181

Money is used to suppress political opposition. Octafish Jun 2013 #197

Yet it fails because political opposition is still alive and well. phleshdef Jun 2013 #211

So which of those two parties is going to jail the Wall Street bankers? Which direction GoneFishin Jun 2013 #219

It probably won't happen. phleshdef Jun 2013 #223

It's an illusion of opposition. Whenever the interests of the 1% conflicts with the 99%, the 99% GoneFishin Jul 2013 #235

a new kind of fascism temmer Jun 2013 #196

''Information Overflow'' and few know of ''Friendly Fascism'' Octafish Jun 2013 #200

Chalmers Johnson says we're like the Roman Empire... EVDebs Jun 2013 #207

Have you ever lived under a real fascist regime? question everything Jun 2013 #212

Exactly. zappaman Jun 2013 #214

You aren't paying very close attention are you? GoneFishin Jun 2013 #221

Many rather wouldn't. sibelian Jul 2013 #255

K&R. (nt) Kurovski Jul 2013 #226

Agreed. nt DLevine Jul 2013 #238

K&R! nt raouldukelives Jul 2013 #242

K&R marions ghost Jul 2013 #243

Congratulations WatermelonRat Jul 2013 #246

What part is ''teabagger''? The NAZI parts? The Wall Street parts? The neocon trickledown parts? Octafish Jul 2013 #248

kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #247

bullshit makes terrible poetry. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #254

It does. So, you're a critic. Please, tell me what's wrong with what I posted. Octafish Jul 2013 #257

Kick And Recommend cantbeserious Jul 2013 #256

K & R malaise Jul 2013 #258

Just knowing some history, not much really Rex Jul 2013 #260

K&R n/t bobthedrummer Jul 2013 #261

kick woo me with science Jul 2013 #262

Kick bobthedrummer Jul 2013 #263

Well said, bobthedrummer. Octafish Jul 2013 #264

They haven't the decency of the Thought Police in "1984" where Inner Party members could turn off BB bobthedrummer Jul 2013 #265

The rest had to leave the Telescreen on. Octafish Jul 2013 #266