General Discussion

randome

(34,845 posts)

144. Any rush to judgment is of course ill-advised.

Mon Jul 1, 2013, 10:46 PM

Jul 2013

But Snowden made some pretty outrageous claims such as he personally being able to spy on the President.

When he wasn't able to provide evidence of that and other things and then made himself look even more naive by saying things like 'I'm not here to hide from justice' from Hong Kong, the pendulum begins to sway in the other direction.

But by that time every faction on DU is fighting to swing it some other way and the result is it doesn't move at all. Which is where we find ourselves today, still seeing post after post after post about Snowden with essentially no new information.

When there is new information, we see 4 or 5 threads all repeating the same thing.

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Josh Marshall: "Snowden’s pretty screwed." [View all] ProSense Jul 2013 OP

just deserts MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #1

Snowden Should Be Thanked For Exposing The Desecration of The 4th Amendment To The US Constitution cantbeserious Jul 2013 #3

I'll thank him by paying in taxes to keep him imprisoned in the near future. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #6

The Position - That The 4th Amendment Is To Be Ignored - Is Abundantly Clear cantbeserious Jul 2013 #10

I elected a President and members of Congress to do that. randome Jul 2013 #20

So - You Admit That You Elected Congress To Gut The 4th Amendment Via The Patriot Act cantbeserious Jul 2013 #21

'Gut the 4th Amendment'. How very Libertarian of you. randome Jul 2013 #25

It Was Your Admission Not Mine - We Now Know Where You Stand cantbeserious Jul 2013 #29

You decide the meaning of the term 'gut' and you decide the meaning... randome Jul 2013 #33

You Are The One That Admitted You Supported The Desecration of The 4th Amendment Via The Patriot Act cantbeserious Jul 2013 #35

I admitted nothing of the sort! randome Jul 2013 #40

Thank You For Being Openly Inconsistent - Please Review Your Posts cantbeserious Jul 2013 #53

He also thinks the constitution is just a piece of paper & "no one should be swearing allegiance to" usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #123

You are like a medieval questioner treestar Jul 2013 #67

Only Have Their Words - Their Thoughts Are Their Own cantbeserious Jul 2013 #70

So you support treason, I see! DontTreadOnMe Jul 2013 #77

I Support The US Constitution - It's All In My Words cantbeserious Jul 2013 #78

Before you get to the 4th, how about reading the 3rd! DontTreadOnMe Jul 2013 #81

You do realize there is an entire infrastructure of court and legislative systems... randome Jul 2013 #82

So, Only Wise Old Men Are Capable Of Reading cantbeserious Jul 2013 #126

We have a much more diverse pool of judges in our system. randome Jul 2013 #131

So Citizens Have No Say In Democracy cantbeserious Jul 2013 #132

Where are you coming from? randome Jul 2013 #138

Oh, One Must Mean The Politicians Bought And Paid For By The Oligarchs cantbeserious Jul 2013 #142

just one cliche after another arely staircase Jul 2013 #174

He Cannot Stop Putting Words Into Other People's Mouths emulatorloo Jul 2013 #186

Almost all of them start with "so" arely staircase Jul 2013 #195

That's because the user name fits! nt MADem Jul 2013 #203

One Might Suggest That Some Review Irony In The English Language cantbeserious Jul 2013 #207

One might suggest that, indeed...particularly the phrase "unintentional irony!" nt MADem Jul 2013 #221

Seems One Might Review The Words Of Others Before Casting Such Stones cantbeserious Jul 2013 #208

Cliche Would Not Exist Without A Basis Of Truth cantbeserious Jul 2013 #211

who told you that? arely staircase Jul 2013 #214

Who Told Me What cantbeserious Jul 2013 #216

Not so much truth as simply good adhesive... LanternWaste Jul 2013 #228

I got a pretty good idea where he's coming from! nt MADem Jul 2013 #223

Any time you hear the "So you admit" argument, you know it's just hyperbole. MADem Jul 2013 #202

Seems One Missed The English Class On Irony cantbeserious Jul 2013 #206

Yes--as I said, "unintentional irony," too. I'm assuming that user name wasn't intended to be MADem Jul 2013 #222

Truly It Was Purposeful - Ergo The Education In Irony For Those Not Students Of English cantbeserious Jul 2013 #224

I'll just leave that comment to speak for itself! MADem Jul 2013 #225

Which It Does - Thanks For THe Enthusiasm cantbeserious Jul 2013 #233

! Bobbie Jo Jul 2013 #235

Sixth Amendment seems to be the one Snowden really seems to be trying to arely staircase Jul 2013 #171

What we do not know nineteen50 Jul 2013 #96

We all know that the NSA will have more transparency and less secrecy after this. randome Jul 2013 #99

Then Snowden did help and did achieve nineteen50 Jul 2013 #107

It remains to be seen but yeah, if that's what he wanted, he will have succeeded. randome Jul 2013 #113

I will save my judgement for latter to much nineteen50 Jul 2013 #115

Is that the only law you believe in?? Just the one that suits your purpose? MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #22

I Support The Constitution Which Includes The 4th Amendment cantbeserious Jul 2013 #32

where in the 4th amendment does it say you can give US intelligence secrets to the Chinese? arely staircase Jul 2013 #41

Where In The 4th Amendment Does It Say The Government Can Spy On Citizens cantbeserious Jul 2013 #52

It doesn't. We agree on the NSA data collection. Now back to him giving intell to the Chinese, arely staircase Jul 2013 #62

That The NSA Domestic Surveillance Has Been Exposed Is Not In Doubt - That Snowden Gave Info To cantbeserious Jul 2013 #66

uh, it was in an interview he gave to the Chinese newspaper arely staircase Jul 2013 #75

Was That Before Or After The Guardian Disclosure cantbeserious Jul 2013 #76

it was after the original guardian story which didn't include the info he gave the chinese arely staircase Jul 2013 #86

The HUGE difference is that he blew the whistle to the PRESS, not in secret for personal gain and usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #128

Name the US newspaper he released his secrets to... brooklynite Jul 2013 #135

The Washington Post, you might not count the press abroad, though most others do, even DU via LBN usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #137

giving US intel to the Chinese makes him a traitor arely staircase Jul 2013 #180

He gave it to the PRESS, and that's what WHISTLEBLOWERS do (google it) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #181

giving specific methods and targets of US clandestine surveilance of China - the the Chinese arely staircase Jul 2013 #187

the targets are EVERYONE, and he told the PRESS (EVERYONE), and that's called WHISTLEBLOWING. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #189

I believe that you believe that nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #196

He's given intel to the Guardian, Chinese People's Daily, The Washington Post, and Der Spiegel. wtmusic Jul 2013 #158

yeah, he should try that defense before the jury that's in his not-too-distant future arely staircase Jul 2013 #182

Where does it say you can give US intelligence secrets to the Chinese? treestar Jul 2013 #68

It's in the 4th Amendment's fine print. randome Jul 2013 #69

No Where - Do You Suggest Otherwise cantbeserious Jul 2013 #72

So you support traitors giving intelligence information to the Chinese? OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #90

Define Traitor cantbeserious Jul 2013 #119

That's a yes then? OilemFirchen Jul 2013 #150

Seems One Is Grasping At Straws cantbeserious Jul 2013 #210

Seems you are getting a taste of your own medicine emulatorloo Jul 2013 #226

Help me out what specific secrets nineteen50 Jul 2013 #98

really? arely staircase Jul 2013 #102

Are you saying China is to stupid to know the US is spying ? nineteen50 Jul 2013 #104

no arely staircase Jul 2013 #110

Then What Are You Saying cantbeserious Jul 2013 #120

that he gave us intel to the chinese arely staircase Jul 2013 #166

No Proof - Only Insinuation cantbeserious Jul 2013 #209

no him doing it right out in the open in an interview with a Chinese newspaper arely staircase Jul 2013 #213

And What Was Said That Was Not Already Known cantbeserious Jul 2013 #215

i have already posted that upthread arely staircase Jul 2013 #230

+10000!! FirstLight Jul 2013 #42

John F. Kennedy On Secrcey cantbeserious Jul 2013 #54

So Kennedy disbanded the CIA and NSA Progressive dog Jul 2013 #71

So We Are To Understand That Secret Societies Are Not Repugnant To Some cantbeserious Jul 2013 #73

Whatever you choose to think it means Progressive dog Jul 2013 #74

Democracy can not exist nineteen50 Jul 2013 #101

Which one? The Kalahari? Atacama? Antarctica? Apophis Jul 2013 #55

Thank you gleannfia Jul 2013 #103

What damage? it's not like the terrorists didn't know we were listening on them. W T F Jul 2013 #124

I really do think he is "surprised by this". He was just a kid who liked Pepsi & computers. Enter.. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #2

I'm beginning to think he's not tethered to reality too tightly. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #4

I thought that when this first started HipChick Jul 2013 #7

That's possible too. But, now that we know that Wiki is so heavily involved, I think he's just a... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #8

Yes. And people are taking advantage of that and him. Whisp Jul 2013 #11

I know what you mean, Whisp. sheshe2 Jul 2013 #125

I agree Blue_Roses Jul 2013 #149

Wikileaks found a patsy. MjolnirTime Jul 2013 #19

and GG was the connector. n/t Whisp Jul 2013 #129

I watched the "Bourne Identity" this weekend and... tridim Jul 2013 #227

It's not just the Bourne Identity wannabe, although you're right, that's likely part of it. randome Jul 2013 #229

It's sounds stupid. Of course, he's NOT convicted.. he ran away like Cha Jul 2013 #15

It's little things like this that cause me concern. I thought WTF? There can't be a conviction.... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #18

Thanks for pointing that out.. it may seem little but I think Cha Jul 2013 #39

Well you would be wrong. DesMoinesDem Jul 2013 #31

but he thought they wouldn't revoke his passport? arely staircase Jul 2013 #45

Sure he knew zeemike Jul 2013 #121

I think it's more of a reaction to the rush to lionize Snowden. randome Jul 2013 #127

And the rush to condemn him as a traitor? zeemike Jul 2013 #139

Any rush to judgment is of course ill-advised. randome Jul 2013 #144

Why do you post that shit again? zeemike Jul 2013 #151

Look up what happens to passports when the US requests extradition. REVOCATION. DevonRex Jul 2013 #232

He's the Beavis and Butthead of spying flamingdem Jul 2013 #84

Do they have pole dancers in Russia? How 'bout gulags, or is that a different country? Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #87

No, but they have Olga and she'll make you dance on a pole flamingdem Jul 2013 #88

"Mee-maw!" randome Jul 2013 #92

Olga makes a mean gumbo and I mean mean flamingdem Jul 2013 #94

"Mee-maw!" ? Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #111

She'll make Comrade Eddie "dance on a pole". I ain't gettin' nowhere near her. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #105

Libertarians are children alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #108

I'm sorry, but children are smarter than Libertarians. As evidenced below: Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #114

I was thinking: If I stole one of the govts cars, could I ask for political asylum? baldguy Jul 2013 #5

since he is so concerned about human rights, any statement on the Anti Gay bill Putin signed ? JI7 Jul 2013 #9

Hey Snowden - this is neither a game nor a movie CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #12

Snowden knew what he was doing was going to have unpleasant personal consequences. But, that leveymg Jul 2013 #13

Snowden is the ultimate whiny little victim. Cha Jul 2013 #14

His immaturity is showing. Big mistake by BAH hiring an adolescent in a 30-yo body. JackN415 Jul 2013 #16

It's really amazing to me that so many self-described liberals would attack a man Marr Jul 2013 #17

Well, ProSense Jul 2013 #23

Pretty obvious that this isn't a liberal forum davidn3600 Jul 2013 #24

I think ProSense Jul 2013 #28

Snowden shouldn't even be the issue anymore davidn3600 Jul 2013 #34

Tell that to Snowden. ProSense Jul 2013 #36

Sorry, no. Because it's a leak, Snowden remains relevant jeff47 Jul 2013 #63

Shrewd. randome Jul 2013 #64

Ah...what else to the story could there possibly be? davidn3600 Jul 2013 #65

How do you have a right to data that is not yours? jeff47 Jul 2013 #234

Thread Winner! This message should be spread far & wide when they screech "IT'S NOT.... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #122

what the government tells me to - repeat Ad infinitum usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #130

By opposing this hack Snowden...does not imply that domestic spying is supported.. VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #38

Have you even looked at the posters that criticize Snowden? davidn3600 Jul 2013 #48

he hasn't "revealed" anything... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #51

you must have missed all the press about the TOP SECRET documents, which has caused a storm around usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #133

Too busy trying to dig up dirt on Snowden Mojorabbit Jul 2013 #152

Oh really? TOP Secret you say????? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #165

yep, TOP SECRET... you need to get out more often, you'd be surprised what you are missing usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #169

Oh I would guess I am here reading at least as much as you if not more....I work from home to clue VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #172

then act/post like it usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #177

Speak for yourself VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #183

I am, and YOU did when you started posting on a PUBLIC discussion board usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #185

No actually I didn't.... VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #191

You saw them? Or did you hear they were Top Secret... Historic NY Jul 2013 #192

LINK usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #194

I have. Where did he blow the lid off anything? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #134

Tell that to the rest of the world (not to mention DU) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #140

Opposing Snowden does not equal "SPYING on EVERYONE" VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #167

Then why does the Administration declare that al Queda has "changed their tactics" yodermon Jul 2013 #145

I mean in terms of Americans being spied on. CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #164

"panties in a bunch" sexist much? usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #170

why are you saying men never wear panties? Who's the sexist now? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #173

nope, just pointing out the sexist expression is all. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #175

Okay...don't get your whitey's tighty.....there feel better? VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #176

im a boxer man myself, but that doesn't change the point usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #178

Boxers can still crawl up your butt, hate when my boxers get bunched up like that emulatorloo Jul 2013 #197

I don't know about your BVD's but when my panties are bunching...it sucks! VanillaRhapsody Jul 2013 #179

does one have to support him giving US intell to the Chinese to be a liberal too? nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #50

slight correction... though an important one... he gave it to the WORLD via the PRESS usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #136

That, and shills be shillin'. Apophis Jul 2013 #58

Really?? Seriously?? You think we're all authoritarians now because we disagree with you??? Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #153

Snowden is a sideshow...Im talking about the real issue davidn3600 Jul 2013 #200

since when did leaking gov't secrets become a liberal value? quaker bill Jul 2013 #212

I'll venture that many "self-described liberals" don't care for their whistleblowers dispatching.... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #27

Well I suppose dispatching from the UK would last something under one minute, wouldn't it? wtmusic Jul 2013 #112

I'm "thinking", I could care less what you "think" about a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #116

Obviously not. wtmusic Jul 2013 #156

This message was self-deleted by its author Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #161

As long as I'm not "manipulated" by you, GG, & Rand Paul, I'm pretty cool. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #162

Remember how they all closed ranks around the chimp usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #30

I assume you are referring to Greenwald there, who supported Bush and the Iraq war for way too long stevenleser Jul 2013 #37

I'm referring to the M$M and other so called liberals usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #44

Frequently told lies about Glenn Greenwald (LINK) usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #118

He is trying to revise his own history. I would too if I was in his shoes. It's documented in his stevenleser Jul 2013 #163

That's complete and utter NONSENSE, just a smear and distortion to distract, plain and simple. usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #168

The lengths you go through to try to assert he didnt write what he wrote are hilarious! stevenleser Jul 2013 #184

zzzZZZzzz usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #188

ROFLMAO! Yes, that's what I thought. stevenleser Jul 2013 #190

I think far more damning is that prominent Dems like Hillary and Kerry were busy HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #198

Exactly, Marr. Octafish Jul 2013 #46

It's okay if people leak programs under a Republican president, like Bush... Apophis Jul 2013 #57

It's amazing to me how many liberals don't recognize ratfucking. jeff47 Jul 2013 #60

Thanks Captin' Obvious - When the worlds only superpower is after you usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #26

If so, it's thanks in large part to Josh Marshall and the rest of the cowardly press... Octafish Jul 2013 #43

Right. Anyone who disagrees with you or Snowden is a coward. randome Jul 2013 #49

No. Those lackeys who only defend the totalitarians at the expense of BIG story -> SPYING usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #56

No matter one's position on Snowden, Josh Marshall's take is on the mark: randome Jul 2013 #59

Thank you Captin' usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #61

No. Just the people in the press who side with the fascists who spy on America. Octafish Jul 2013 #89

Those would primarily be Republicans, you know. randome Jul 2013 #91

This message was self-deleted by its author Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #83

Eh... Agschmid Jul 2013 #47

Ron Paul on steroids. Turbineguy Jul 2013 #79

Do you think it is possible that Josh Marshall is reading the DU forum? Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #80

Or...YOU are Josh Marshall! Come clean,Major! randome Jul 2013 #85

Have you noticed how they are being ever so careful not to say the obvious about Greenwald. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #95

That's the only reason I care about getting Snowden back here. randome Jul 2013 #100

Greenwald used him like a marionette. Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #106

I thought that was interesting flamingdem Jul 2013 #109

I care nothing allinthegame Jul 2013 #141

Capt'n Obvious usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #143

Speaking of obvious... Bobbie Jo Jul 2013 #157

Looks good on you usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #159

ROFLMAO!!! Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #204

Well usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #231

Wow, that analysis is breathtaking. senseandsensibility Jul 2013 #93

Other than a few lame PowerPoint slides, what did Snowden reveal? randome Jul 2013 #97

He Revealed TOP SECRET documented evidence, that backs up other FIRST-HAND accounts of WRONGDOING usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #146

He 'revealed' PowerPoint slides that contain only blurbs and one-sentence summaries. randome Jul 2013 #147

TOP SECRET documents that have provided more daylight than anything we've been allowed to see so far usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #148

randome doesn't think top secret documents are evidence of anything DesMoinesDem Jul 2013 #154

The undercurrents of sadistic glee at Snowden's predicament and comeuppance are HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #199

Did you think this was some kind of game?? Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #205

Utterly naive. On the scale of Valentine Michael Smith. randome Jul 2013 #217

Post removed Post removed Jul 2013 #117

Two things you never want to happen BlueStreak Jul 2013 #155

Well put. wtmusic Jul 2013 #160

I wouldn't feel very secure if is were Syrian BlueStreak Jul 2013 #193

If I'm Putin, I hold out for absolutely no deployment of ABM systems HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #201

"Trust me" LOL wtmusic Jul 2013 #219

I was thinking exactly the same thing. wtmusic Jul 2013 #218

I think Putin could negotiate to get Assad on "Dancing with the Stars" BlueStreak Jul 2013 #220