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Octafish

(55,745 posts)

14. Secret Laws and Secret Government are un-American.

Reply to kpete (Original post)

Mon Jul 8, 2013, 12:26 PM

Jul 2013

Last edited Tue Jul 9, 2013, 01:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Secret laws mean those in on the secrets are above those who aren't.

Secrecy means We the People aren't in charge.

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Secret law is not law. It is a fundamental breach of the social contract . [View all] kpete Jul 2013 OP

Indeed and thank you for posting. +1 eom Purveyor Jul 2013 #1

yeah, but most Americans are too fat and happy in their illusions that they actually matter Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #2

Most Americans are in various stages of denial making it easy for the tyrants. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #8

That is not true in a representative democracy FarCenter Jul 2013 #3

If/when one is arrested for breaking one of these secret laws... ret5hd Jul 2013 #6

Ignorance of a secret law is an excuse, by definition. Orsino Jul 2013 #9

Impossible for an individual person to break these "secret laws" treestar Jul 2013 #11

How the hell do you know that to be a fact? The law is "secret", remember? ret5hd Jul 2013 #12

The laws aren't secret. Igel Jul 2013 #40

There are cases on it treestar Jul 2013 #48

No, it isn't a plebiscite on every law, but in a representative democracy a law has to be known. enough Jul 2013 #7

this is one point that I don't understand about the surveillance state debate.... mike_c Jul 2013 #4

Many choose to live in authoritarian denial. nm rhett o rick Jul 2013 #20

I don't think you even have to be an authoritarian (though it helps) Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #67

Yes, many people live in total deniablity, thinking that the authoritarian state will rhett o rick Jul 2013 #69

As Ron Wyden has said, 'if the people knew how they are using the law they would be sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #5

It is not entirely secret treestar Jul 2013 #10

It should be noted that those decisions were made in a vastly different world. Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #19

So back to the President having no checks on spying treestar Jul 2013 #43

I'm afraid I don't see how this addresses my post. Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #44

Well if you read the case I posted there treestar Jul 2013 #46

I assume that you are arguing in good faith. I would appreciate it if you would do the same for me. Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #49

OK so you have no intent to argue in good faith treestar Jul 2013 #50

Thanks for the comprehensive list of cites. But COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #51

Thank you for being a person who actually understands! treestar Jul 2013 #62

But it's so much more fun to swoon and breast-beat about COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #65

*Waves* Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #68

You do realize that this isn't the opinion of the court, but a quote from the amicae curiae brief Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #52

Here is an article in from Dr. Anthony Clark Arend of Georgetown University Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #54

According to the ACLU, it is the USA PATRIOT act which enables this level of surveillance, rather Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #56

Started an OP here: Romulus Quirinus Jul 2013 #59

FISA is a fig leaf and a rubber stamp. RufusTFirefly Jul 2013 #29

Even so, then at least they are looking at it treestar Jul 2013 #45

Again I have to ask: why do some here trust 10 Repub judges to secretly define privacy? magellan Jul 2013 #13

magellan, good question n/t saidsimplesimon Jul 2013 #25

First of all, because it's nothing but simplistic COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #53

Because liberals can't be trusted with national security? Enthusiast Jul 2013 #34

Where does this idea come from? magellan Jul 2013 #38

The media willingly joined a Enthusiast Jul 2013 #39

Yeah, the list of Repub national security failures magellan Jul 2013 #47

Calling them socialists is just part of the ruse. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #57

Anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is a liberal to a Teabagger magellan Jul 2013 #60

Exactly. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #71

Secret Laws and Secret Government are un-American. Octafish Jul 2013 #14

Rec nt Zorra Jul 2013 #15

The FISA law ProSense Jul 2013 #16

No, its secret law, not "just" secret execution LondonReign2 Jul 2013 #24

No, the ProSense Jul 2013 #35

ProSense, yawn, been there, heard that, you are entitled to saidsimplesimon Jul 2013 #28

So ProSense Jul 2013 #33

I like unhappycamper's sigline: kentuck Jul 2013 #17

+1 truebluegreen Jul 2013 #18

+2 ReRe Jul 2013 #22

That's a great quote. Still, ProSense Jul 2013 #37

With such an idea in mind does it give them a right to....... nolabels Jul 2013 #55

Me too. Enthusiast Jul 2013 #41

Amen to that! FiveGoodMen Jul 2013 #21

To the 100th power! DeSwiss Jul 2013 #23

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Jul 2013 #26

So absolutely fundamental: Sunlight is the best disinfectant. n/t RufusTFirefly Jul 2013 #27

Secret law and secret courts are tyranny The Second Stone Jul 2013 #30

It's debatable if you can even call it "law." It certainly isn't legal, no matter how the courts leveymg Jul 2013 #31

Once again - the law is not secret. COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #64

The rulings and interpretations are the substance of the law, the statute is just black letter leveymg Jul 2013 #66

Then you would guess wrong. COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #76

No. Records are rarely sealed, except in FISA/nat'l security, and some civil cases by agreement. leveymg Jul 2013 #77

Don't be obtuse. The record of court decisions COLGATE4 Jul 2013 #78

The fact that this has to be said speaks to how deep in shit we are. TheKentuckian Jul 2013 #32

Kicked and Recommended! nt Enthusiast Jul 2013 #36

K&R nt Waiting For Everyman Jul 2013 #42

It appears Obama does not agree and is fighting to keep mysterious redefinitions of our law secret. Dragonfli Jul 2013 #58

That makes so much sense libodem Jul 2013 #61

That's a keeper. Very well said n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #63

Secrecy is specifically allowed for in the Constitution Recursion Jul 2013 #70

But it sound like either the whole House or Senate is required to vote on it... kentuck Jul 2013 #75

Couldn't this be said about all warrants? Life Long Dem Jul 2013 #72

These "secret laws" are the government's self-limitations on surveillance Recursion Jul 2013 #73

Thank You For Sharing cantbeserious Jul 2013 #74

kick temmer Jul 2013 #79