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In reply to the discussion: Secret law is not law. It is a fundamental breach of the social contract . [View all]Romulus Quirinus
(524 posts)49. I assume that you are arguing in good faith. I would appreciate it if you would do the same for me.
In addition, I am not a lawyer, but a scientist. I would not ask you to calibrate my experimental equipment, and I think it is unreasonable to expect me to read the multiple Supreme Court legal opinions in your Google Scholar search, analyze them, and argue with you on equal footing. If you wish for this conversation to be fruitful, it would be helpful to point out a clearer reading, since there is no obvious link supporting your contention on the first page that I can locate with my meagre knowledge. That said...
My Google Fu does not seem to bring up anyone who agrees with your opinion. The first cut brought up the Wikipedia article on the Foriegn Intelligence Service Act, which mentions US vs Duggan:
Post-FISA
There have been very few cases involving the constitutionality of FISA. In two lower court decisions, the courts found FISA constitutional. In the United States v. Duggan, the defendants were members of the Irish Republican Army. 743 F.2d 59 (2nd Cir., 1984). They were convicted for various violations regarding the shipment of explosives and firearms. The court held that there were compelling considerations of national security in the distinction between the treatment of U.S. citizens and non-resident aliens.
IF this crime/case happened after FISA was passed, I don't see what bearing it has on what the law would revert to if FISA were removed from play. Further, the law blog you link to is simply a reposting of a memo from the office of the Director of National Intelligence, one Mr. Clapper, who has been in the news lately, and whose opinion I find to be self-serving and not a little suspect. The block quote you include is found no where on the site you linked.
Tossing the first line of your block quote into a search engine leads to this Brietbart link (http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/06/27/NSA-Scandal-Stay-Focused) which agrees with your analysis. The quote itself comes from an amicus curiae brief filed with the Court by Judicial Watch in in American Civil Liberties Union vs National Security Agency in 2006. Judicial Watch, it has often been noted, does not commonly cover itself in glory. :3
Lacking as I am in legal training, and being capable only of reading the plain meaning of the 4th amendment and the simplified explanations of other experts, and based on the quality of said experts standing on either side, I would say that I'm still inclined to disagree with you on this point. I do think, however, that this post might make for a fine OP.
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Secret law is not law. It is a fundamental breach of the social contract . [View all]
kpete
Jul 2013
OP
yeah, but most Americans are too fat and happy in their illusions that they actually matter
Nanjing to Seoul
Jul 2013
#2
Most Americans are in various stages of denial making it easy for the tyrants. nm
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#8
No, it isn't a plebiscite on every law, but in a representative democracy a law has to be known.
enough
Jul 2013
#7
this is one point that I don't understand about the surveillance state debate....
mike_c
Jul 2013
#4
Yes, many people live in total deniablity, thinking that the authoritarian state will
rhett o rick
Jul 2013
#69
As Ron Wyden has said, 'if the people knew how they are using the law they would be
sabrina 1
Jul 2013
#5
It should be noted that those decisions were made in a vastly different world.
Romulus Quirinus
Jul 2013
#19
I assume that you are arguing in good faith. I would appreciate it if you would do the same for me.
Romulus Quirinus
Jul 2013
#49
You do realize that this isn't the opinion of the court, but a quote from the amicae curiae brief
Romulus Quirinus
Jul 2013
#52
Here is an article in from Dr. Anthony Clark Arend of Georgetown University
Romulus Quirinus
Jul 2013
#54
According to the ACLU, it is the USA PATRIOT act which enables this level of surveillance, rather
Romulus Quirinus
Jul 2013
#56
Again I have to ask: why do some here trust 10 Repub judges to secretly define privacy?
magellan
Jul 2013
#13
It's debatable if you can even call it "law." It certainly isn't legal, no matter how the courts
leveymg
Jul 2013
#31
The rulings and interpretations are the substance of the law, the statute is just black letter
leveymg
Jul 2013
#66
No. Records are rarely sealed, except in FISA/nat'l security, and some civil cases by agreement.
leveymg
Jul 2013
#77
It appears Obama does not agree and is fighting to keep mysterious redefinitions of our law secret.
Dragonfli
Jul 2013
#58
But it sound like either the whole House or Senate is required to vote on it...
kentuck
Jul 2013
#75