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Moonwalk

(2,322 posts)

60. No. That is not the "therefore." What is the NSA doing? That is the "therefore"--

Tue Jul 9, 2013, 08:45 PM

Jul 2013

We do have a right to question the credibility of witnesses and hearsay. And if the witness or the person relating the hearsay is unreliable or has a bias agenda--one that relates to what they're presenting as "facts"--then that does cast some doubt on the veracity of what they're saying. It might be all true. Or it might be partially true. Or it might be entirely false.

This, by the way, is debate 101. How reliable is the the source? How "unbias" is he/she? Do they have a stake in the outcome of this? And if there is technical aspects to the information, how much of an expert are they? And yes, that goes for both sides.

Debate 101 also says that we should avoid ad hominem. Attacking the person rather than the argument. You're accusing this thread of ad hominem. Is it really doing that, or is it attacking the credibility of the person issuing the information? Explain why you think it is the one over the other, because you cannot accuse this thread of that "therefore" until you explain why it is wrongly ad hominem rather than validly questioning credibility.

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When Greenwalds Attack! 10 Examples From His Past [View all] Galraedia Jul 2013 OP

The man has no class or credibility AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #1

Indeed. Serwer showed no class attacking Greenwald and in doing so diminished his credibility. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #77

I can't argue with that. Two miserable men digitally slapping each other. AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #88

Ah, so you know them personally. Cool! Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #90

You sound like a Propanganda Planter AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #85

The irony in your post is delicious. reusrename Jul 2013 #122

Daniel Serwer writes for the neoliberal Atlantic. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #2

He sounds like a monster: baldguy Jul 2013 #10

The bastard! randome Jul 2013 #13

That louse! babylonsister Jul 2013 #30

Serwer's initial comment was completely out of line. Hissyspit Jul 2013 #48

Daniel Serwer appears to be a credible source. n/t Cali_Democrat Jul 2013 #53

I know who Daniel Serwer is. Hissyspit Jul 2013 #62

Greenwald promoting Snowdens lies is out of line - esp. for a "journalist". baldguy Jul 2013 #58

Greenwald thinks Snowden has done more than a guy who negotiated peace in Bosnia arely staircase Jul 2013 #79

And Dennis Kucinich comments on FOX. He's VP of the USIP KittyWampus Jul 2013 #12

And Greenwald writes for AEI and American Conservative frazzled Jul 2013 #46

He also uses sock puppets on forums to support himself... Whisp Jul 2013 #3

Does he not know who Daniel Serwer is? JaneyVee Jul 2013 #4

Therefore naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #5

No. That is not the "therefore." What is the NSA doing? That is the "therefore"-- Moonwalk Jul 2013 #60

+1 billion "What is the NSA doing? That is the therefore" Recursion Jul 2013 #80

I love it when it's thrown back in his fuckin' ignorant face. Cha Jul 2013 #6

Classy. Real Classy. /nt TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #64

Why are you so viscerally enraged by Glenn Greenwald? Marr Jul 2013 #96

Well, see, that's the thing about the OP. reusrename Jul 2013 #123

Where is Greenwaldo? flamingdem Jul 2013 #7

Here's the thing. All Snowden has "revealed" is old news gotten in old newspapers. Greenwald helped KittyWampus Jul 2013 #16

You know, you get some interesting Google images for 'ratfuck'. randome Jul 2013 #19

Karl Rove in the process with a rat? KittyWampus Jul 2013 #23

I don't see Karl but I see a couple of Paul Reiser? Wonder what's up with that? randome Jul 2013 #29

Do not question the Snowden. You will be assimilated. shenmue Jul 2013 #8

You just confirmed my suspicion that the NSA is not spying on us Blue Bike Jul 2013 #9

Lack of evidence plus smarmy personality equals asshole. randome Jul 2013 #15

Smear campaign well underway NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #20

Evidence. Not even proof, just evidence. randome Jul 2013 #24

sorry, where have you been? NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #28

If you mean the metadata, get to work on changing the laws for that. randome Jul 2013 #31

wrong again NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #35

So if an analyst is undecided about whether someone is foreign or not... randome Jul 2013 #40

FISA is ruling on entire surveillance programs, not individual warrants NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #50

Which we've known about for years. Bush, Jr. had the same metadata. randome Jul 2013 #54

We dont even KNOW the interpretations of the laws now NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #55

I think we are all in agreement to push for more transparency and less secrecy. randome Jul 2013 #56

The NSA is spying. It's what they do. But why did Greenwald give a nobody w/no real story KittyWampus Jul 2013 #26

uh, WRONG NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #32

WOW! We learned the word PRISM. Here is an article from 2008 about "direct access"- KittyWampus Jul 2013 #34

Do you know the difference between the FBI and the NSA? NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #38

If you read the article (you read it that fast?) it says they work with the NSA. KittyWampus Jul 2013 #39

You're still wrong NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #44

+1 Thank you. I'm so tired of the blind allegiance. snappyturtle Jul 2013 #63

They know all of that shit. zeemike Jul 2013 #81

Google already has all my data. That actually bothers me more. aquart Jul 2013 #59

Just because you keep on repeating things doesn't mean its true AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #84

Agreed. The same can be said of Eddie ("I'm not here to hide from justice.") Snowden. randome Jul 2013 #91

Will Greenwald lovers still believe that Snowden was telling the truth once they learn that... Galraedia Jul 2013 #18

Snowden isn't interested in facts.. it's obvious by now Cha Jul 2013 #70

+1 burnodo Jul 2013 #67

Glen does not play well with others. And he's not a good enough journalist to get away with that.nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #11

Why doesn't Greenwald turn his attention to the real spying problem . . . Facebook!! Major Hogwash Jul 2013 #87

Clearly the NSA is not spying on people because Twitter. DirkGently Jul 2013 #14

Oh, and I heard Glenn has an overdue library book, so pay no attention to NSA wiretapping. Electric Monk Jul 2013 #17

I heard that Greenwald bites off the heads of kittens Mnpaul Jul 2013 #99

The NSA watched your thoughts form as you typed that. randome Jul 2013 #21

the NSA can't read your thoughts arely staircase Jul 2013 #100

Sorry, but Greenwald doesn't get a free pass for reporting on something that was revealed years ago. Galraedia Jul 2013 #22

Funny, the ACLU seems to think there's something new here. DirkGently Jul 2013 #25

Where does any of that have anything to do with anything of substance Snowden provided? KittyWampus Jul 2013 #27

Well, it is based on the precise information he revealed. n/t DirkGently Jul 2013 #33

Just to take a few examples: Did you know before these articles that ... BlueCheese Jul 2013 #43

I think I see where some of the confusion comes from. randome Jul 2013 #47

The NSA programs and the Fourth Amendment Galraedia Jul 2013 #37

In the cases described above... BlueCheese Jul 2013 #41

Dragnets are unconstitutional. There's no "caterer analogy" exception. DirkGently Jul 2013 #42

lol. Yeah. They want to send Snowden to jail for revealing already-revealed stuff Blue Bike Jul 2013 #57

They're everywhere! usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jul 2013 #36

It's so much fun to watch them play... cherokeeprogressive Jul 2013 #49

"Figaro!" randome Jul 2013 #51

Greenwald is a showboating Libertarian. In short, a puke. I can't believe how many people think he OregonBlue Jul 2013 #45

well DICK cheney has criticized snowden, and loves the nsa's programs NineNightsHanging Jul 2013 #52

So all Libertarians are evil? Liberals may sharply disagree with Libertarians on economic issues... AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #89

Yay, another one of the "irrelevant Glenn-Greenwald-is-such-an-asshole attacks" whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #61

Hahaha! I totally missed that! Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #65

Correspondence and collusion between the New York Times and the CIA Octafish Jul 2013 #66

A most excellent example. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #95

That's what makes a real journalist - integrity. Octafish Jul 2013 #104

The attempts to characterize Greenwald as coming late to the party re: the NSA are pathetic. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #108

Since we're in full ad hominem mode, sulphurdunn Jul 2013 #68

Wait what? Shouldn't that read "when Daniel Serwer attacks"? Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #69

And then there was his savage attack on Steven Rattner. pa28 Jul 2013 #71

Haha awesome! n/t whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #74

+1! So let me get this straight, people attack Greenwald, he responds, and somehow... Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #75

Typical BS from GG IMO: what did Rattner have to do with the aluminum tubes story? struggle4progress Jul 2013 #93

What did Rattner have to do with aluminum tubes? It's a lame rejoinder otherwise. nt msanthrope Jul 2013 #116

Yeah. This thread might have been better titled "When Greenwald makes lame rejoinders!" pa28 Jul 2013 #121

Um, didn't Greenwald support the war in Iraq? baldguy Jul 2013 #124

So he should just take it, and not respond to direct insults? quinnox Jul 2013 #72

Why are you trying to change the subject and make this about Greenwald? totodeinhere Jul 2013 #73

Total FAIL: Ad Hominem attack. PRIVACY IS OUR RIGHT!!! grahamhgreen Jul 2013 #76

Why are some people in DU attempting to use Propaganda tactics... AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #78

this one who wrote the OP, for awhile was using the "anti-American" insult, but seems to have quinnox Jul 2013 #83

Thats funny - Galreadia Iliyah Jul 2013 #82

His supporters often engage in this same tactic: arely staircase Jul 2013 #86

This level of desperateness by Obama supporters suggest willful delusion... AZ Progressive Jul 2013 #92

I knew there was a reason I wasn’t paying attention to this from the beginning.. busterbrown Jul 2013 #101

DU Rec... SidDithers Jul 2013 #94

DU Wreck... whatchamacallit Jul 2013 #103

This message was self-deleted by its author Electric Monk Jul 2013 #117

Pathetic pmorlan1 Jul 2013 #97

DU rec. Becuase, like Sid, I sometimes forget where I am. Luminous Animal Jul 2013 #98

These Greenwald pile-ons really make people here look ridiculous. Marr Jul 2013 #102

1984 is getting way too real Hydra Jul 2013 #112

Let's play a quick game of "Who said this?" Electric Monk Jul 2013 #115

Let's Bring the Thread Back to the Real Issue - the NSA Surveillance Overreach... xocet Jul 2013 #105

then start a thread, this one is about Greenwald nt arely staircase Jul 2013 #106

Whatever... n/t xocet Jul 2013 #107

who the fuck recs their own threads? frylock Jul 2013 #109

lol, nice catch quinnox Jul 2013 #110

seriously? arely staircase Jul 2013 #118

well, on that topic, there are definitely alternative opinions available quinnox Jul 2013 #119

ok, at least there are deferring opinions arely staircase Jul 2013 #120

Same kind that would sign his own yearbook. Union Scribe Jul 2013 #111

This message was self-deleted by its author limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #113

The whole Greenwald thing is really exposing a some truths about Democrats. nt limpyhobbler Jul 2013 #114