General Discussion

karynnj

(60,472 posts)

194. I don't equate child abuse with collecting phone and internet records

Fri Jul 12, 2013, 02:55 PM

Jul 2013

Anyone paying attention in Dec 2006 through August 2007 KNEW that Congress approved the FISA bill that allowed the collection of telephone usage information. What the government did was neither illegal or immoral - and the purpose is to detect terrorists before they strike.

I really have no more problem with the government having my phone records than the phone company having them. In the first place, it is extremely unlikely that the NSA would ever find me suspect (or interesting) enough to spend the resources to profile me. I have MORE of a problem with the massive amount of data the credit rating companies have on me - this is a far richer, more detailed data base -- and they have at times sold the information to third parties.

My point is that Snowden took a job that required promising not to leak classified information - and it may have been his intent EVEN AS HE SIGNED THAT AGREEMENT to do just that. You can't have everyone working with sensitive information deciding UNILATERALLY what they can put out. (ie what if someone working for the IRS decided that entire tax returns of everyone in his town - coincidentally yours - should be public information and put it out on a web site.

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Snowden meeting in Moscow with Human Rights Groups now (Live) [View all] Catherina Jul 2013 OP

Human rights activist being led one by one to the meeting with Snowden now Catherina Jul 2013 #1

Snowden e-mail inviting people to the event in progress now Coyotl Jul 2013 #16

edit: link works now. nt bunnies Jul 2013 #2

#snowden Coyotl Jul 2013 #3

Terrific! Thank you n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #5

You are welcome. I came to GD to start this thread! Coyotl Jul 2013 #6

Lol! Sorry I beat you, I would have worked in your thread Catherina Jul 2013 #7

That poor kid at the bottom of the escalator snooper2 Jul 2013 #115

There are rumors among Sheremetyevo staff that Snowden might have a flight today Catherina Jul 2013 #4

Thank you! Tuning into RT now. Please let him get out safely. chimpymustgo Jul 2013 #8

Obviously that rumor was quite false lol. n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #98

Official vehicle of Department of Presidential Affairs just passed by the terminal n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #9

Good. Oh, what does this Mean? ... allin99 Jul 2013 #10

Video not allowed in meeting btw #Snowden and around 8 Russian human rights figures. It begins. Coyotl Jul 2013 #11

Maybe the Russian human rights people need to examine this policy karynnj Jul 2013 #91

Not a policy. It is Snowden's meeting and his decision. Read his e-mail. n/t Coyotl Jul 2013 #93

I read his not all that impressive email karynnj Jul 2013 #103

Last tweet says 8 "Russian human rights figures"/ kentuck Jul 2013 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author kentuck Jul 2013 #14

There are a TON of people there Catherina Jul 2013 #18

And here's Snowden Catherina Jul 2013 #13

Looks a little gaunt and pale... kentuck Jul 2013 #17

and i'm glad to hear he is not dead. allin99 Jul 2013 #15

Why would he be dead? n/t Agschmid Jul 2013 #43

Because the CIA has a nasty habit of offing people. morningfog Jul 2013 #51

They do? Agschmid Jul 2013 #74

CIA contracted with the Mafia in 1960 to do that to Castro. Wet work continues to present day. Octafish Jul 2013 #203

Sorry should have added sarcasm tag. Agschmid Jul 2013 #204

He just hadn't been heard from in so long and the... allin99 Jul 2013 #58

#Venezuela says #Snowden yet to reply to asylum offer Coyotl Jul 2013 #19

This is bizarre. He even said he wants to thank them in person... allin99 Jul 2013 #120

Meeting with "human rights" groups in a Moscow airport, rather than defense attorneys AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #20

More coffee? marions ghost Jul 2013 #92

I'd also like an explanation for the quote marks. Perhaps that poster does not believe HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #112

Makes ya wonder marions ghost Jul 2013 #116

Or, perhaps, just perhaps, he or she believes in "human rights," but not HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #121

If so marions ghost Jul 2013 #128

Oh yeah, I'm with you 100%. The point is that by putting quote marks around the phrase, the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #134

Yeah, a weaselly way of insinuating marions ghost Jul 2013 #153

JMO, but I think human rights in Moscow should be put in quotes, because there isn't any such thing. Zen Democrat Jul 2013 #167

I see that but marions ghost Jul 2013 #170

I side with the White House on this issue 100% in respecting the work of human rights groups AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #187

So you think human rights groups are wrong to HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #193

Because as Jay Carney said this afternoon, human rights groups do a lot of good work AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #185

What reason did he give marions ghost Jul 2013 #189

nobody here is laughing frylock Jul 2013 #156

meeting with Snowden has begun Catherina Jul 2013 #21

MJ: The Doubters Are Wrong: Edward Snowden Is a Game-Changer Coyotl Jul 2013 #22

Great article. Thank you for that. Autumn Jul 2013 #95

will submit an asylum claim to Russia, plans to go to Latin America eventually Catherina Jul 2013 #23

Will he comply with Putin's condition that he not publicly disclose further information? FarCenter Jul 2013 #26

And is that offer even still on the table? bunnies Jul 2013 #33

It sounds like the offer is still there, and it sounds like Snowden would take it only morningfog Jul 2013 #40

Itll be interesting to see how the Prez reacts to this. bunnies Jul 2013 #42

So much for transparency! randome Jul 2013 #52

Alas... details are leaking out anyway. bunnies Jul 2013 #65

ROFL alcibiades_mystery Jul 2013 #76

It's kind of insulting to Russia, isn't it? randome Jul 2013 #27

Russia will turn out to be his "Hotel California" FarCenter Jul 2013 #29

Not at all. Russia set conditions. He doesn't want to be bound by those conditions, morningfog Jul 2013 #32

He's clearly going to be bound to those conditions for the time being. randome Jul 2013 #39

Russia has, since the beginning, wanted him to move along. morningfog Jul 2013 #41

Putin is trying to play a delicate game. randome Jul 2013 #49

That doesn't make sense. morningfog Jul 2013 #57

In politics, optics matter. randome Jul 2013 #62

They could move him to Krasnoyarsk -- It's probably quite nice this time of year FarCenter Jul 2013 #55

The Russians have made it clear marions ghost Jul 2013 #36

It sounds like he needs the Russian asylum to protect his travel to Venezuela. morningfog Jul 2013 #38

The threats to Latin America are getting pretty bad, i commend them for... allin99 Jul 2013 #125

And yet he didn't even bother to respond to Venezuela's offer. randome Jul 2013 #127

Not true. morningfog Jul 2013 #136

'Accepts all offers' is a meaningless phrase. Who claims him then? randome Jul 2013 #139

Again, you are playing catch up. morningfog Jul 2013 #142

That was posted while I was composing. Of course I'm playing catch up. We all are. randome Jul 2013 #146

Hahaha, hang on to that. morningfog Jul 2013 #149

So he actually flew to Russia, despite all the comments that he was probably in Hong Kong or ????? FarCenter Jul 2013 #24

As well as my suspicion that he was fictional Recursion Jul 2013 #35

says govts in W. Europe, N.America are acting outside the law, preventing me from traveling. Catherina Jul 2013 #25

"outside the law"? or simply using standard criminal procedures? FarCenter Jul 2013 #30

HR lawyer: "UN mechanisms should ensure Snowden's rights. That is not the role of HR NGOs" Catherina Jul 2013 #37

The United States provides 22% of the United Nations budget. FarCenter Jul 2013 #70

Translation: "It's our U.N. goddamnit. We paid for it!" (Reminds me of the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #119

It's the Golden Rule -- he who has the gold makes the rules. FarCenter Jul 2013 #123

Spoken like a dyedinthewool one percenter ... GeorgeGist Jul 2013 #201

Denying that money buys influence is like denying that gravity pulls things to the earth. FarCenter Jul 2013 #202

Confused, is asylum still def. an option from Russia? allin99 Jul 2013 #46

Looks like Russia may have backed off from that original offer a bit. bunnies Jul 2013 #83

Thanks. EEP! Am on the edge of my seat. allin99 Jul 2013 #84

Is TGI Fridays catering? brooklynite Jul 2013 #28

#Snowden has received asylum offers from Venezuela, Russia, Bolivia, Nicaragua and Ecuador, per Huma Coyotl Jul 2013 #31

He turned down Russia once. I suppose he needs to apply again. randome Jul 2013 #54

As of yesterday, Russia has only offered to "consider" asylum. bunnies Jul 2013 #77

Great stuff. So we know he is alive, still in Moscow and organizing his options. morningfog Jul 2013 #34

Yes. Basically would like to stay in Russia until he can fly to Latin America safely n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #45

Any idea where this is? brooklynite Jul 2013 #44

Asks wants intl orgs to petition the United States, EU not to interfere Catherina Jul 2013 #47

article 14 of the UN Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #63

US, Russia play waiting game over Snowden: report morningfog Jul 2013 #48

Yeah, let's see the U.S. try to push Russia around like they do L.A.... allin99 Jul 2013 #78

That may be why Russia's going to be Snowden's place of asylum. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #168

No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US so Putin's condition poses no obstacle Catherina Jul 2013 #50

"Venezuela has a "sour relationship" with HRW" bunnies Jul 2013 #53

Here's the HRW record for 2013 - and it isn't good karynnj Jul 2013 #101

Thanks for the link. bunnies Jul 2013 #129

Being stuck in airport has limitations for appealing to intl organizations Catherina Jul 2013 #56

says he is recognized as asylum seeker by UNHCR but US doesn't acknowledge (Morales plane) Catherina Jul 2013 #59

"No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US...I want the US to succeed." Catherina Jul 2013 #60

#Snowden sees logic: His work is not meant to damage US, so Putin's condition is no obstacle.n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #69

Has he agreed to stop leaking, or is he making the case that leaking is not damaging to America? Catherina Jul 2013 #87

What Snowden thinks is damaging is irrelevant -- it is what Putin thinks that counts. FarCenter Jul 2013 #94

Can he really not see that he has damaged US relations with many countries karynnj Jul 2013 #105

If the U.S. hasn't done anything wrong then eventually... allin99 Jul 2013 #132

And further to that point: if the USA has HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #145

So, you are saying that every person who is given a security clearance has the right to determine karynnj Jul 2013 #155

No, the US's actions damaged US relations with many countries. noamnety Jul 2013 #138

That would be true if the US uniquely did these things karynnj Jul 2013 #148

Exactly! nt SunSeeker Jul 2013 #158

Is the standard for whistleblowing that only their org must be corrupt? noamnety Jul 2013 #160

I don't equate child abuse with collecting phone and internet records karynnj Jul 2013 #194

Yes, I can see that your focus is whether or not he signed a nondisclosure agreement. noamnety Jul 2013 #196

We also that the collection of all this data is immoral or unethical karynnj Jul 2013 #200

Depends how you define "hurt" noamnety Jul 2013 #195

Exactly. The U.S. had a hell of a lot of nerve to say that Latin America... allin99 Jul 2013 #151

Okay - we're in the check-in area of Sheremetyevo Terminal "D" brooklynite Jul 2013 #61

Press is not at meeting, only HR activists Catherina Jul 2013 #64

As an aside: Snowden T-shirts in the major clothing stores of Berlin, Germany Catherina Jul 2013 #66

awesome. cuz this is BULLSHIT. I feel as oppressed as i did under Giuliani. allin99 Jul 2013 #73

Says he is recognized as an asylum seeker by UNHCR but US doesn't acknowledge it n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #67

Breaking: Snowden asks for asylum in Russia Coyotl Jul 2013 #68

Human rights activists are approaching the journalists and are commenting on the meeting now n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #71

Peskov: Kremlin has no confirmation of #Snowden appeal for asylum, but conditions are the ones Putin Catherina Jul 2013 #72

Duma deputy: Snowden said he will easily fulfill the conditions of the Russian Federation to stay Catherina Jul 2013 #75

Kremlin has no confirmation of Snowden's appeal, conditions remain the same Catherina Jul 2013 #79

Snowden feels fine, sleeps here at the airport and feels safe in Russia Catherina Jul 2013 #80

wants human rights organizations to petition US, EU not to interfere with his asylum process Catherina Jul 2013 #81

If #Snowden oficially requests political #asylum in Russia, his request will be processed - #Kremlin Catherina Jul 2013 #82

Processing his request may take some time FarCenter Jul 2013 #89

"No actions I take or plan are meant to harm the US." randome Jul 2013 #110

His psychological posture has been consistent -- he thinks that he is very important FarCenter Jul 2013 #118

The US official bullying posture has been consistent, marions ghost Jul 2013 #143

'Allegedly'. And Spain says their ambassador in Austria was responsible for the panic attack. randome Jul 2013 #159

Nothing so extreme marions ghost Jul 2013 #162

Wikileaks will release Snowden's statement to human rights groups early this evening Catherina Jul 2013 #85

How ironic would it be if Russia played peacemaker by giving him asylum... allin99 Jul 2013 #86

If people wish for #Snowden to not ask #Russia for help, they should ensure he may freely travel Catherina Jul 2013 #88

has written request for political asylum, Russian law allows its being granted - lawyer Kucherena Catherina Jul 2013 #90

Are the Human Rights Groups going to meet with Putin dbackjon Jul 2013 #96

Nah. bunnies Jul 2013 #140

Russian Deputy: He feels he is right. Is on the blacklist for many airlines Catherina Jul 2013 #97

Snowden's asylum plea irrelevant if he declines #Russia's terms - Human Rights Council head n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #99

presidential council: will provide legal support to Snowden in going thru political asylum process Catherina Jul 2013 #100

Russian Federal Migration Service: We not yet received an application for political asylum Catherina Jul 2013 #104

must be given refugee status, preferably by UN,or Red Cross,not Russia - Russian commissioner for HR Catherina Jul 2013 #102

I said this early today before the conference Ichingcarpenter Jul 2013 #109

Russia cannot extradite Snowden - deputy Nikonov Catherina Jul 2013 #106

Search of Morales plane in Vienna showed those who are looking for him may resort 2 extreme measures Catherina Jul 2013 #107

However ironic Russia talking about human rights is, it makes sense about... allin99 Jul 2013 #113

statement would be set forth in a letter to President Putin Catherina Jul 2013 #108

Russia's oldest human rights activist: grant asylum, don't fear deterioration of relations with US Catherina Jul 2013 #111

ACLU: right to asylum is universal. US is interfering with that right Catherina Jul 2013 #114

State Duma Speaker: grant political asylum because in US he could face the death penalty Catherina Jul 2013 #117

lawyer: granting political asylum could be settled within two-three weeks Catherina Jul 2013 #122

Institute of Democracy and Cooperation FarCenter Jul 2013 #135

Thanks n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #166

Russia... one_voice Jul 2013 #124

In line with the law, may become a #citizen of Russia, but may take some time Catherina Jul 2013 #126

But he doesn't want to be a citizen of Russia. He wants to use Russia as a temporary life raft. randome Jul 2013 #130

The US and Russia have considerable experience housing defectors from the other side FarCenter Jul 2013 #188

2nd photo of Snowden in Moscow Catherina Jul 2013 #131

Duma:Snowden a human rights defender,who advocates for the rights of millions of people in the world Catherina Jul 2013 #133

STATEMENT by Edward Snowden to human rights groups at Moscow Catherina Jul 2013 #137

This is a hell of a claim! morningfog Jul 2013 #141

That was confirmed by other whistleblowers. ChimpyMustGo started a new thread for it Catherina Jul 2013 #144

Yeah, this i'd like to see. allin99 Jul 2013 #147

Simply put, the technical capability is used without warrant Catherina Jul 2013 #150

Surprisingly, though, Snowden didn't think to get evidence of that. randome Jul 2013 #154

Thanks, Catherina. That is a very important statement Zorra Jul 2013 #165

I thought so too. He's absolutely correct too Catherina Jul 2013 #178

Kudos and laurel wreaths to Snowden for this statement! Peace Patriot Jul 2013 #181

I don't think the US has violated Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights FarCenter Jul 2013 #184

I wonder how many of the Russians feel about this "human rights" thing..... Sheepshank Jul 2013 #152

That was the Soviet Union that your parents grew up under. Cleita Jul 2013 #157

nope...actually it's not gone Sheepshank Jul 2013 #161

Duma Chairman: We expect #US to correctly interpret granting asylum as a humane thing Catherina Jul 2013 #163

K&R! Glad to see he's OK! n/t backscatter712 Jul 2013 #164

If #Snowden accepts condition of Putin for political asylum, there is no reason for him to be denied Catherina Jul 2013 #169

i wonder if he would accept conditions to stop releasing u.s... allin99 Jul 2013 #173

Glenn Greenwald and Wikileaks has his documents, so Snowden can sit quiet for a while. backscatter712 Jul 2013 #175

Technically, he's not releasing anything anymore Catherina Jul 2013 #177

if Russia takes him in i will .... allin99 Jul 2013 #179

Here you go Allin Catherina Jul 2013 #199

Russia should meet #Snowden's request for political asylum - Federation Council Chair Catherina Jul 2013 #171

It's an all-you-can-eat feast of irony. gulliver Jul 2013 #172

I know, right? CakeGrrl Jul 2013 #174

It's ironic in a lot of ways. noamnety Jul 2013 #180

When the book is written the title will obviously be flamingdem Jul 2013 #186

Video, no sound... allin99 Jul 2013 #176

Thanks Alin Catherina Jul 2013 #182

This message was self-deleted by its author allin99 Jul 2013 #183

U.S. to Russia.. allin99 Jul 2013 #190

I just started a thread about that Catherina Jul 2013 #191

Heavy pressure marions ghost Jul 2013 #192

Just updated the OP with unofficial video n/t Catherina Jul 2013 #197

Russian Deputy: Russia never extradites to countries with the death penalty Catherina Jul 2013 #198

Hmmm, i wonder if that comment means.... allin99 Jul 2013 #205