General Discussion

dawg

(10,624 posts)

27. What a dimwitted opinion piece.

Fri Aug 23, 2013, 03:50 PM

Aug 2013

Last edited Fri Aug 23, 2013, 05:01 PM - Edit history (1)

I think we are all stupider for having read even an excerpt from it.

If you disagree with Snowden and Manning's reasons for leaking information, just say so and explain your reasons why. But the notion that they had no reason and were just categorically opposed to secrecy under all circumstances bears no relationship whatsoever to anything either person has ever said.

This is just another example of "It's different this time", without even the beginnings of a rationale to back it up.

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Highlight:

What Snowden And Manning Don't Understand About Secrecy [View all] FarCenter Aug 2013 OP

Excerpt is too long, by DU rule cthulu2016 Aug 2013 #1

Assange solicited help from the White House with redacting. GoneFishin Aug 2013 #80

Democracy requires transparency Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #2

Diplomacy often requires confidentiality. It is as simple as that. n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #11

Simplistic... MNBrewer Aug 2013 #69

Often essential. pnwmom Aug 2013 #70

Caused absolutely no damage and only did good. MNBrewer Aug 2013 #76

Diplomacy is stronger with transparency Harmony Blue Aug 2013 #72

Diplomacy using secrecy always fails? pnwmom Aug 2013 #73

Tyrants require secrecy. 99Forever Aug 2013 #74

And our diplomats often have to negotiate with tyrants. pnwmom Aug 2013 #75

Piffle. 99Forever Aug 2013 #86

Who do you think you're kidding? I don't live in the comic book world pnwmom Aug 2013 #87

No, you... 99Forever Aug 2013 #89

Secrecy isn't only useful for tyrants. baldguy Aug 2013 #78

Secrecy is required for authoritarian jackbooted thugs. 99Forever Aug 2013 #85

Food is required for authoritarian jackbooted thugs. pnwmom Aug 2013 #88

That the ... 99Forever Aug 2013 #90

You need to take a logic class and get more practice. n/t pnwmom Aug 2013 #91

Bye bye. 99Forever Aug 2013 #92

You can't refute an obvious true statement, so you ignore it. baldguy Aug 2013 #93

You're gone too. 99Forever Aug 2013 #95

Unlike a child, you can't ignore the facts of life. baldguy Aug 2013 #97

Simple, but false. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #13

yes, we should tell AQ everything they want to know always for the sake of transparency uponit7771 Aug 2013 #46

What a great article.....but here's the money line-- msanthrope Aug 2013 #3

Excellent quote! Cha Aug 2013 #5

That's actually pretty stupid. Marr Aug 2013 #23

Really? Our government made him get on a plane to Russia from China? nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #25

That wasn't supposed to be his final destination. dkf Aug 2013 #30

He planned to stay in China in the open arms of that great civil libertarian, Xi Jinping FarCenter Aug 2013 #35

Greenwald is in Brazil and Poitras had to go to Germany. Miranda got caught while TRANSITING dkf Aug 2013 #36

Yes, Miranda should have used Frankfurt, Lisbon, Rome, Paris or Amsterdam FarCenter Aug 2013 #38

You think it was a trap? Sounds risky. dkf Aug 2013 #40

You've undoubtedly read that Poitras has been questioned and searched by US FarCenter Aug 2013 #43

I saw his interview and he seemed genuinely scared and incredulous. dkf Aug 2013 #45

Things may have gone worse than Greenwald and Poitras led him to expect FarCenter Aug 2013 #48

Well the UK bit hard if so... dkf Aug 2013 #59

If neither person anticipated that, then they really are as naive as the author suggests. nt msanthrope Aug 2013 #56

"Neither appears to have understood what they were getting themselves into..." baldguy Aug 2013 #79

+1 uponit7771 Aug 2013 #47

Yup...Snowden has taken the most incoherent public flight from "tyranny' ever BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #57

No, HERE'S the money line Ocelot Aug 2013 #64

Maybe they were both a little of each -- heroic and naive. freedom fighter jh Aug 2013 #99

"These are young people at war with the concept of secrecy itself . . . " markpkessinger Aug 2013 #4

And how many secret investigations of organized crime, international pedophile rings... randome Aug 2013 #6

Right . . . markpkessinger Aug 2013 #16

There's quite a bit of confirmation bias there. jeff47 Aug 2013 #10

Huh? markpkessinger Aug 2013 #15

Actually, you did from numbers, just not explictily jeff47 Aug 2013 #31

I wasn't presenting it as one versus the other` markpkessinger Aug 2013 #39

Only intentional attacks on rescue workers. jeff47 Aug 2013 #42

That's one of the most crucial points Ocelot Aug 2013 #68

"It proceeds from a Julian Assange-influenced, comic-book vision of the world.. Cha Aug 2013 #7

Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government... Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #8

Well informed != tell them everything either... uponit7771 Aug 2013 #53

I guess Tom trusted the people more than his successors. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2013 #71

Wheel Cipher FarCenter Aug 2013 #96

What the military and the NSA don't understand about secrecy... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #9

Well said. Just Saying Aug 2013 #14

What I meant by #1 is... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #17

Yes, completely right. Just Saying Aug 2013 #20

A result of 9/11 appears to have been a breakdown in compartmentalization FarCenter Aug 2013 #22

Excellent points all! n/t markpkessinger Aug 2013 #41

Excellent points. Just Saying Aug 2013 #12

+1, and Greenwald knows this...Greenwald should've KNOWN that Snowden didn't have crap when uponit7771 Aug 2013 #52

This is supposed to be a democracy Hydra Aug 2013 #18

Cool! Let's Distribute Nuclear Launch Codes to Everyone! Their "Ours" After All! Skraxx Aug 2013 #19

Oh, Chelsea Manning released Launch Codes and Covert opts names? Hydra Aug 2013 #24

"We need to know the things they are hiding from us. Those documents BELONG to us" Skraxx Aug 2013 #34

S'ok, you did a good job of defending the system Hydra Aug 2013 #37

False equivelancy zipplewrath Aug 2013 #21

You sized it up well Hydra Aug 2013 #29

First sentence is false on it's face. Der Spiegel said Snowden had info that would endagner uponit7771 Aug 2013 #49

Correct. And Manning admitted doing harm, apologizing for it. nt SunSeeker Aug 2013 #67

What the President, Congress and the Judiciary don't know about secrecy.... dkf Aug 2013 #26

That's a known known and so was going through the process of redress for the secrecy but.. uponit7771 Aug 2013 #50

I can't speak for what Manning did because I haven't followed it all that closely. dkf Aug 2013 #58

What a dimwitted opinion piece. dawg Aug 2013 #27

DU rec... SidDithers Aug 2013 #28

the Oath to protect the Constitution, presides over all other oaths. Enemies foreign and domestic bahrbearian Aug 2013 #32

I had a security clearance and handled classified data for over 40 years. ... spin Aug 2013 #33

"My problem is with the indiscriminate nature of their leaks. "...and their wholesale lack of give a uponit7771 Aug 2013 #44

Please shorten your excerpt. n/t winter is coming Aug 2013 #51

This takes me back to what I was saying a few months ago Cali_Democrat Aug 2013 #54

Sadly I believe there will be many more victims while Assange and Greenwald pursue their vendettas. great white snark Aug 2013 #55

Times have changed. JDPriestly Aug 2013 #60

Yes you are so right dem in texas Aug 2013 #61

YOu nailed it! nt Cryptoad Aug 2013 #62

Unrec...lots of guessing by this guy... joeybee12 Aug 2013 #63

.... DeSwiss Aug 2013 #65

K & R SunSeeker Aug 2013 #66

Libertarianism is a childish impulse; it creates an immature worldview. baldguy Aug 2013 #77

This sums it up for me: jazzimov Aug 2013 #81

+ 1. nt sufrommich Aug 2013 #82

I'll say it: the "new DU" is full of anti-Democratic Green Party and Libertarian trolls. baldguy Aug 2013 #98

They are Republican punks and they are definitely not "Greens" Kolesar Aug 2013 #101

interestingly enough, the government also doesn't understand this about secrecy unblock Aug 2013 #83

As of yet, I see no evidence for the main claim. Democracyinkind Aug 2013 #84

K&Freaking REC Number23 Aug 2013 #94

Thanks for the concern.... sendero Aug 2013 #100