General Discussion

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)

59. The problem is that there are people who know more than me on both sides of most issues.

Reply to alcibiades_mystery (Original post)

Thu Aug 29, 2013, 03:14 AM

Aug 2013

When I want to make up my mind about something, I take two approaches:

1) Try and work it out for myself from first principles
2) Listen to what people who know a lot about it say, and trust them.

Approach 2 works very well on issues where there is consensus among the experts - most scientific issues, for example, or the fact that Japan exists despite the fact that I've never seen it with my own eyes.

But on political issues it's of very limited use, because I have to decide which experts to listen to, and that usually needs approach 1 to do it.

So I think "don't have any confidence in your own opinions" is excellent advice - on politics, I'm probably wrong about a great many things. But "go with the experts" is only a good strategy if most of the experts agree.

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Your Ignorance is not as Good; Or, You Don't Know Fuck-All About Syria [View all] alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 OP

Absolutely! George W. Bush was a fucking guru! delrem Aug 2013 #1

The Bushies problem was just the same: they thought they knew more alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #4

What if they answer yes on 1, 2, and get a job through PNAC. delrem Aug 2013 #20

I have a very good friend who worked at the DOE and DOD as JoePhilly Aug 2013 #105

So what you're saying is that some of these RW Neocons that advanced under Bush bullwinkle428 Aug 2013 #111

Except that the GOP polticos no longer run the show. JoePhilly Aug 2013 #115

more than a few similarities Supersedeas Aug 2013 #124

This Will Not Be Popular, Sir, But It Needed Saying The Magistrate Aug 2013 #2

Meh...the ones who don't already have me on ignore will now alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #45

That the op is true, doesn't make it relevant to discussions here cali Aug 2013 #81

Has that person on the Syria desk ever been to war? I have. Scuba Aug 2013 #86

The Secretary of State has been to war karynnj Aug 2013 #108

Aha, but are our thoughts imprisoned by the same paradigms? NoOneMan Aug 2013 #3

There's certainly a case to be made for occupational psychosis alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #10

You can rely on whatever you want NoOneMan Aug 2013 #33

2003 Flashback: Your Ignorance is not as Good; Or, You Don't Know Fuck-All About Iraq David__77 Aug 2013 #5

Experts on Iraq scoffed at neo-con plans alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #15

The people who spoke were outsiders. joshcryer Aug 2013 #21

Good points, all. nt silvershadow Aug 2013 #71

Richard Clarke was NOT an outsider. Nor was Joe Wilson. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #120

Clarke's name was dragged under the mud and Wilson's wife was outed. joshcryer Aug 2013 #134

lol. your hypocrisy is delightful. cali Aug 2013 #95

All i need to know is violence begets violence. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #6

That claim is not a universal truth. There are plenty of examples in history... Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #9

there are very few truly universal truths. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #12

Then maybe instead of trying to pop off one liners you should explain that... Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #17

Why the one liner? PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #24

First off, they aren't YOUR employees. They are employees of the state. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #27

We are the state. They are our employees. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #34

No, you are member of the electorate. You are a citizen. You are not the state. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #37

You are wrong. PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #44

The state encompasses public institutions. The public does not constitute the state... Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #49

Why do schools no longer teach civics? 6000eliot Aug 2013 #131

Which school doesn't teach civics? Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #132

I'm not sure, but your explanation was pretty straightforward, but so many people don't get it. 6000eliot Aug 2013 #133

It's the right-wing libertarians who are creating the most issues... Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #135

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Aug 2013 #41

When will this peace start? 'Cause I am fairly sure I have not experienced much of it, jtuck004 Aug 2013 #72

The guy working the middle east desk says your wrong. Brewinblue Aug 2013 #19

That's all they've been saying Art_from_Ark Aug 2013 #51

Yeah, that may be so. Brewinblue Aug 2013 #58

Presto! Art_from_Ark Aug 2013 #78

Oh, neat. Callouts. Union Scribe Aug 2013 #7

"Why wouldn't you then submit to their superior knowledge?" - Cognitive dissonance Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #11

This message was self-deleted by its author HangOnKids Aug 2013 #28

Wikipedia knows more than the State Department does. joshcryer Aug 2013 #8

It's not a matter of wrong predictions. The Iraq WMD evidence was fabricated. Gravitycollapse Aug 2013 #13

That's what I said. joshcryer Aug 2013 #16

I guess that is why high school teachers across the country warn students not karynnj Aug 2013 #113

I have to agree with you. Laelth Aug 2013 #14

Indeed alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #18

We need Manning in State RobertEarl Aug 2013 #42

In an ideal world, we elect people to lead who know much more than we do bhikkhu Aug 2013 #22

And Colin Powell was in a better position to know about Iraq LittleBlue Aug 2013 #23

There's always a danger of that, to be sure alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #25

Of course LittleBlue Aug 2013 #32

and thise facts are impossible to get Niceguy1 Aug 2013 #130

Gulf of Tonkin, Iraqi troops throwing babies from incubators, WMDs deutsey Aug 2013 #103

You are arguing credentials, not knowledge. Waiting For Everyman Aug 2013 #26

You're correct on the second part alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #29

Ignorance ???? SamKnause Aug 2013 #30

The person who works the middle least desk at the state department knew more about Iraq in 2002. Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #31

Actually, State Dept did NOT want to invade Iraq, they were complying blm Aug 2013 #107

So, let's turn it on to them Link Speed Aug 2013 #35

If intelligence and analysis drove policy there would be a lot of value to that point. Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #36

Point taken alcibiades_mystery Aug 2013 #38

I know a smattering of Arabic... free0352 Aug 2013 #39

welcome to DU. Jesus Malverde Aug 2013 #77

Thanks for the logic flamingdem Nov 2015 #138

Those people are only as good as who they side with. Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #40

What more do we need to know to realize its a bad idea to get involved? dkf Aug 2013 #43

I know nothing compared to many. SleeplessinSoCal Aug 2013 #46

Those "experts" are our employes, who ostensibly work for us, and have yet to demonstrate that... JVS Aug 2013 #47

With all the respect due to your post: Fuck your CIA. JackRiddler Aug 2013 #48

^^^ THIS POST ^^^ Rumold Aug 2013 #55

Well, that about sums it up. /thread Scootaloo Aug 2013 #64

+100000000000. Erose999 Aug 2013 #65

Well said! grahamhgreen Aug 2013 #69

Awesome. Thanks. redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #74

Best smackdown I've read in a while... Junkdrawer Aug 2013 #85

What Jack said! Octafish Sep 2015 #137

your right nvme Aug 2013 #50

his right what? n/t PowerToThePeople Aug 2013 #52

The fact that powerful people are more informed in their affairs than us in general... ocpagu Aug 2013 #53

I think it's more a question of motive than ignorance/knowledge. cui bono Aug 2013 #54

My Ignorance is pretty good; mostly ignored by the mainstream media polynomial Aug 2013 #56

I think most of the career state department people were against Iraq johnd83 Aug 2013 #57

The problem is that there are people who know more than me on both sides of most issues. Donald Ian Rankin Aug 2013 #59

I agree completely with the State Department statement: Downwinder Aug 2013 #60

Here's the problem: Maedhros Aug 2013 #61

Bravo! nt Pholus Aug 2013 #83

I've never employed that quote. what do I do?!!!! what could happen? MisterP Aug 2013 #62

Having knowledge is different from applying knowledge Scootaloo Aug 2013 #63

I listen to the experts. CJCRANE Aug 2013 #66

Ah, the old appeal to authority. Ash_F Aug 2013 #67

Ironic, neh? Maedhros Aug 2013 #118

LOL. I know the state dept person is corrupt and profits from war and death. Full stop. grahamhgreen Aug 2013 #68

so, your position is.... dtom67 Aug 2013 #70

I have yet to even understand what is meant by "intervention"... Humanist_Activist Aug 2013 #73

Experts with a conflict of interest are not experts. They are hacks. redgreenandblue Aug 2013 #75

This has already been covered LostOne4Ever Aug 2013 #76

That's true but so what? Those folks aren't posting here cali Aug 2013 #79

You mean that the fucktards who insisted there were WMD in Iraq knew more than I? eridani Aug 2013 #80

In a democracy, it is your experts' jobs to make the case... Pholus Aug 2013 #82

The people who know more also lie more. nt ZombieHorde Aug 2013 #84

Sure they do. But they are proven liars. n/t n2doc Aug 2013 #87

you have a point.. sendero Aug 2013 #88

I think it's relevant. ucrdem Aug 2013 #90

A well made point, but sadly I must also agree ucrdem Aug 2013 #89

Yeah sure they do but are they telling you the truth or are they trying to manipulate you? Ganja Ninja Aug 2013 #91

Or at least listen to them treestar Aug 2013 #92

There's a huge difference in Asimov's quote and the state department. JoeyT Aug 2013 #93

This message was self-deleted by its author myrna minx Aug 2013 #94

"people who do this sort of thing for a living"... truth2power Aug 2013 #96

I don't have to know Fuck-All about Syria. LWolf Aug 2013 #97

No doubt they know more. BUt, that is no reason to trust them to do the right thing or morningfog Aug 2013 #98

Having more facts doesn't always lead folks to the right conclusions - TBF Aug 2013 #99

..... catnhatnh Aug 2013 #100

Loved the call out, honeypie. Not. cali Aug 2013 #101

Very good post. Just Saying Aug 2013 #102

Yes, those who say they don't believe anything Cha Aug 2013 #123

Ahmed Chalabi. Enough said. idwiyo Aug 2013 #104

I am conflicted about the Syria thing, but fully agree with this post distantearlywarning Aug 2013 #106

Knowledge is not wisdom. mainer Aug 2013 #109

The quintessential authoritarian post. woo me with science Aug 2013 #110

How could you NOT trust a guy named "Curveball"? bullwinkle428 Aug 2013 #112

I'll bet Robert McNamara knew a lot more about Vietnam than MLK did, too. dawg Aug 2013 #114

60 years of history and failed military interventions in the Middle East bvar22 Aug 2013 #116

You don't have to be a plumber to know a toilet is blocked... uriel1972 Aug 2013 #117

So Middle East geopolitics are as simple as a blocked toilet? Dreamer Tatum Aug 2013 #119

Alas no, uriel1972 Aug 2013 #121

Yes it would. nt Dreamer Tatum Aug 2013 #122

personally noiretextatique Aug 2013 #125

Was this the same dude sitting at the Iraqi WMD desk a decade ago? Glassunion Aug 2013 #126

What about all the experts in all the other countries? Yo_Mama Aug 2013 #127

nice try at reasoning, but i am not surprised by the responses you're getting. nt dionysus Aug 2013 #128

Some would call that an hypothesis MNBrewer Aug 2013 #129

Valid point frustrated_lefty Aug 2013 #136