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Octafish

(55,745 posts)

55. JFK stood up to the War Party at least four times...

Tue Oct 8, 2013, 11:39 PM

Oct 2013

Even though they knew their invasion plans were compromised, the CIA and Pentagon tried to force Kennedy to make war over the Bay of Pigs.

While an attack on Soviet missile bases in Cuba and on ships at sea would escalate to nuclear war, the Pentagon and most of the Cabinet tried to force Kennedy to make war, nuclear if necessary -- the Cuban Missile Crisis.

The Pentagon and the Hawks in Congress and his Cabinet recommended war in Vietnam and southeast Asia to stop the spread of Communism, Kennedy sent volunteers -- which he ordered out by the end of 1964 -- but said he would never commit U.S. draftees to fight in another country's civil war, Vietnam.

Most troublesome to me, seeing how the Hawks lied America into invading Iraq twice in the last 22 years, DCI Allen Dulles and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs Lyman Lemnitzer counseled Kennedy to order an all-out nuclear attack on the Soviet Union in Fall of 1963 -- the optimal time for a successful pre-emptive war.

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Octafish to attend JFK assassination conference. Do you think JFK still matters? [View all] Octafish Oct 2013 OP

George H W Bush did it. Hell yes it's still relevant NightWatcher Oct 2013 #1

Russ Baker and David Talbot may shed light on that... Octafish Oct 2013 #7

Yes, this is exactly why it's still important. appal_jack Oct 2013 #60

+infinity. nt silvershadow Oct 2013 #61

I went to one in Dallas. texanwitch Oct 2013 #2

Debra Conway hosts the JFK Lancer conference... Octafish Oct 2013 #53

Yes, it still matters. PDJane Oct 2013 #3

JFK stood up to the War Party at least four times... Octafish Oct 2013 #55

Do you have a paypal account? grasswire Oct 2013 #4

Thank you, my Friend. No... Octafish Oct 2013 #48

Of course it matters. Scuba Oct 2013 #5

It would explain a lot. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #113

Five years ago, DU2 had a pair of mammoth threads that I can longer access... Octafish Oct 2013 #169

Kick/Rec. Yes, it matters because of the word you used - truth. It's in ever increasingly short NRaleighLiberal Oct 2013 #6

Truth is what Democracy craves. Octafish Oct 2013 #171

No...thank YOU for what you are doing - and always do for us here...and for teaching me a new word! NRaleighLiberal Oct 2013 #191

I think it still matters notadmblnd Oct 2013 #8

Thanks, notadmblnd! People wonder why the USA tortures children, invades innocent countries... Octafish Oct 2013 #199

JFK SamKnause Oct 2013 #9

Thanks, SamKnause! We stand against certain smear artistes... Octafish Oct 2013 #200

Unless some secret trove of papers emerges pscot Oct 2013 #10

I imagine that to be the case for the under-educated who believe history is not relevant. LanternWaste Oct 2013 #139

I believe I've just been insulted pscot Oct 2013 #140

Have you? Keep the faith! LanternWaste Oct 2013 #167

Thanks for your POV, pscot. There are many CIA papers that bear direct relevance... Octafish Oct 2013 #202

I don't think it does oswaldactedalone Oct 2013 #11

That's an odd thing to say, considering your DU name. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #104

Used to think that was a clever ironic wink dougolat Oct 2013 #208

Very glad to hear you are able to go! hootinholler Oct 2013 #12

''It is the seminal event in the 20th Century that kept fascism viable.'' Octafish Oct 2013 #218

JFK's Assassination was/is a watershed moment in our nation's history, it is of great importance. Uncle Joe Oct 2013 #13

Thanks, Uncle Joe! Octafish Oct 2013 #223

Best of luck to you leftstreet Oct 2013 #14

Thanks, leftstreet! What Jefferson Morley said... Octafish Oct 2013 #230

Yes, it matters. But looking ahead Mother Nature is going to kick human ass. IT WILL BE UGLY. hunter Oct 2013 #15

Here's a mini documentary about the methane gas issue by Thom Hartmann. CrispyQ Oct 2013 #149

When it comes to the disease, we must strike at the root -- the radical approach. Octafish Oct 2013 #231

I would love to go to that gopiscrap Oct 2013 #16

The Kennedy Assassination: The Nixon-Bush Connection Octafish Oct 2013 #232

Thank you I have heard this before gopiscrap Oct 2013 #245

It matters because it was a point when history changed. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #17

Well said MFrohike Oct 2013 #23

Plenty of evidence, but, it's been swept under the rug. juajen Oct 2013 #52

William Manchester proven wrong. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #62

Not really, no Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #71

Good posts rebutting the willing ignorance of the JFK CTists, but you may as well be shouting stopbush Oct 2013 #146

Video evidence shot at Love Field on Nov. 22, 1963 supports conspiracy. Octafish Oct 2013 #233

No, it doesn't Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #236

Recent tests: Oswald 'had no time to fire all Kennedy bullets' Octafish Oct 2013 #237

The time between the two shots that hit was 5.6 seconds. Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #239

I think it's critically important. stranger81 Oct 2013 #18

Yes, and it took years to realize that. mountain grammy Oct 2013 #28

You feel life was better in 1963 than it is now? As a woman I don't think so. virgogal Oct 2013 #29

I'm a woman and I know so, having lived during that time. juajen Oct 2013 #50

For whom? Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #80

For many, and, on certain levels, I'd go as far as to say "most" if not all. As for the economy, whathehell Oct 2013 #91

No, because I'm not that old Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #94

Of course not. You're still young & immature enough to think calling us "old" is a debate strategy whathehell Oct 2013 #116

I'm pretty sure it didn't Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #125

I'm pretty sure that, being in possession of all the academic information you have, in addition whathehell Oct 2013 #163

check post 203 snooper2 Oct 2013 #204

You check it. whathehell Oct 2013 #216

If by "everyone" doing well you mean white men, sure it was a golden age. Bradical79 Oct 2013 #181

Sorry, Brad, unlike yourself, I'm not a man of any color -- I'm a female, like Juajen, who also whathehell Oct 2013 #227

Thank you -- same here. n/t whathehell Oct 2013 #90

You are right in a weird kind of way---- snooper2 Oct 2013 #203

What I meant by that is, it seems to be the moment when the other side decided to just start killing stranger81 Oct 2013 #51

Exactly. All the same political actors benefited from each "lone nut" assassination. villager Oct 2013 #88

It can not be explained as a simple coincidence.......nt Enthusiast Oct 2013 #114

Superficially, no it wasn't. but there is a fundamental yes underlying that time. Egalitarian Thug Oct 2013 #197

JFK and the Impossible Octafish Oct 2013 #238

If Oswald shot Kennedy, he took the worst possible shot he could. cliffordu Oct 2013 #19

Exactly. I doubt the deniers have ever fired a shot, much less from elevation Link Speed Oct 2013 #22

I was one of the best shots I was aware of back in the day. cliffordu Oct 2013 #83

2 shots out of 3 on a target ranging from less than 60 to less than 100 yards away? Spider Jerusalem Oct 2013 #105

Assuming you are right, why is this important? DireStrike Oct 2013 #234

You're wrong. Oswald attained the level of Sharpshooter in the USMC. stopbush Oct 2013 #147

He took the shot that he had. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #102

Pfthh go look at the link I'm my old post cliffordu Oct 2013 #103

Problems resolving the link Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #106

Are you saying that to everyone in this thread? cliffordu Oct 2013 #134

NAZI Echo in Dealey Plaza Octafish Oct 2013 #243

Anyone who dismisses this is either a fool or a tool Link Speed Oct 2013 #20

Gerald Ford: Skeptics on Warren Commission posed ''No problem.'' Octafish Oct 2013 #244

Of course he matters! His assasination started this cabal moving alittlelark Oct 2013 #21

^^This^^ dflprincess Oct 2013 #27

Justice demands one ex-Secret Service Agent and one ex-FBI Agent testify before Congress... Octafish Oct 2013 #252

Gotta say - you are my favorite DU poster.... alittlelark Oct 2013 #255

It still matters, definitely ailsagirl Oct 2013 #24

Today, ''Money trumps peace,'' as George W Bush said Feb. 14, 2007 Octafish Oct 2013 #254

Interestingly enough I'm currently reading a book by L. Fletcher Prouty about the subject... rwsanders Oct 2013 #25

L. Fletcher Prouty was a heroic figure... Octafish Oct 2013 #250

Thanks Octafish, that's the book I'm reading. So far it is very sad as it kind of picks up where... rwsanders Oct 2013 #251

Absolutely! Will You Be Attending Any Others? N/A LarryNM Oct 2013 #26

No, but I think people I hope to meet in Pittsburgh will. Octafish Oct 2013 #256

K&R catnhatnh Oct 2013 #30

Act I sets the stage, heh heh heh, for all that follows. Octafish Oct 2013 #257

Hell Yes! Phlem Oct 2013 #31

Of course it matters. I'm glad you're going. Please share with us. NBachers Oct 2013 #32

It's as relevant as if it happened yesterday. JDPriestly Oct 2013 #33

Yes, it matters. As much as ever, maybe even more. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #34

His legacy still matters munster69 Oct 2013 #35

assassination of President Kennedy still matters lunasun Oct 2013 #36

Definitely... I read your posts here and can't wait to read your Report! KoKo Oct 2013 #37

Yes it matters...matters a lot...the truth is still not in the public domain emsimon33 Oct 2013 #38

Bill Kelly at Wecht Conference billkelly Oct 2013 #39

welcome to DU gopiscrap Oct 2013 #40

You are most welcome, Sir! Octafish Oct 2013 #193

Dismissing conspiracy theories about the assassination is not making light of the event. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #41

I am afraid it is. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #65

No, absolutely not. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #75

Really? avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #84

And so the dance begins. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #100

You could always skip threads that don't interest you?? sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #132

Thank you for your concern. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #155

I'm not at all concerned, just trying to be helpful! sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #190

Me, too! Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #192

Who said it was a trump card? It certainly was an acknowledgement sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #198

That's exactly how it's used in these discussions. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #207

Well you haven''t done much 'countering'. You've made up a lot of stuff sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #221

But GD is not the place for countering. Or positing in the first place. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #226

"No we won't be discussing this in GD"...Really? It seems that we are. whathehell Oct 2013 #165

And you do so in violation of the SOP for GD and the Terms of Service for DU. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #166

Then it seems a lot of others are violating as well.. whathehell Oct 2013 #173

Argument ad populum. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #189

Yup.. whathehell Oct 2013 #215

The HSCA also found that Oswald killed Kennedy nyquil_man Oct 2013 #86

Correct. ALSO is the operative word. It was bigger than Oswald there was a likely conspiracy avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #93

So you think there's a chance these hidden documents would prove nyquil_man Oct 2013 #96

Yes, I do. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #98

If they were so 'snookered' in their investigation nyquil_man Oct 2013 #99

This message was self-deleted by its author avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #97

It's never too late to give up on accountability. pa28 Oct 2013 #42

as vitally important as justice. both are dead reddread Oct 2013 #43

Duquesne University... where have I heard that name recently? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #44

It will matter, always to me. juajen Oct 2013 #45

It was fifty years ago. It's a very cold case. The original investigation may indeed struggle4progress Oct 2013 #46

It still matters to me. Blue_In_AK Oct 2013 #47

I don't think it matters at all. Dead is dead. kwassa Oct 2013 #49

How very wrong you are. juajen Oct 2013 #54

what you said ailsagirl Oct 2013 #63

I'm not a 'boomer' whatever that is, and it very much interests me. It is part of the history of sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #87

This subject doesn't interest a majority of people. kwassa Oct 2013 #177

I can see you have a great appreciation of history -- not. whathehell Oct 2013 #157

Jesus Christ is dead, too. KamaAina Oct 2013 #176

It created a sense that nothing was sacred and nobody was safe starroute Oct 2013 #56

It matters greatly. OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #57

No, it does not matter. The Midway Rebel Oct 2013 #58

Yes - it still matters KT2000 Oct 2013 #59

It matters Roy Rolling Oct 2013 #64

Yes it does still matter & always will in my opinion N/T Michigan-Arizona Oct 2013 #66

It definitely matters. proReality Oct 2013 #67

Good answer. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #115

OMG 50 years... seems like just yesterday. lonestarnot Oct 2013 #68

Yes, it does! libodem Oct 2013 #69

It most certainly is still relevant. You see how our country STILL won't speak to Cuba? loudsue Oct 2013 #70

I believe that open-minded persons never close the door. We know we are fed propaganda rhett o rick Oct 2013 #72

Yes. It matters Half-Century Man Oct 2013 #73

k&r Octafish - "The Past is Prologue" is engraved on the National Archives bananas Oct 2013 #74

considering how long it takes to get things declassified I would say it does still matter. liberal_at_heart Oct 2013 #76

K & R AzDar Oct 2013 #77

big honking kick big honking rec nashville_brook Oct 2013 #78

i think it matters. never believed the warren DesertFlower Oct 2013 #79

We are on the threshold of a grand and open conspiracy to destroy Constitutional government. gordianot Oct 2013 #81

I love James Douglass' book "JFK and the Unspeakable" nashville_brook Oct 2013 #82

That book is on my reading list. I have heard many good things about it. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #262

This message was self-deleted by its author avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #263

thank you -- i'll check this out! nashville_brook Oct 2013 #265

Great news my friend Ichingcarpenter Oct 2013 #85

Does the assassination of President Kennedy still matter?...Absolutely. whathehell Oct 2013 #89

Yes, it matters oldtime dfl_er Oct 2013 #92

Yes, for all of the reasons DUer who think so have written here. Dark n Stormy Knight Oct 2013 #95

As we have discussed over the years here PCIntern Oct 2013 #101

Truth has no use-by date. More power to you BelgianMadCow Oct 2013 #107

only as far as public Niceguy1 Oct 2013 #108

the day this country went to the darkside. Old and In the Way Oct 2013 #109

Matters, indeed. I went to a Robt. J. Gordon lecture last month... dougolat Oct 2013 #110

It matters like Lincoln's assassination matters aikoaiko Oct 2013 #111

Your last sentence is pretty ugly Oilwellian Oct 2013 #121

You misunderstood me. I meant conspirator in the sense of someone... aikoaiko Oct 2013 #124

Sorry, I did misread what you said Oilwellian Oct 2013 #156

Your youngest son conspired to kill JFK? jberryhill Oct 2013 #126

I think Lincoln's assassination IMO matters a great deal more than Kennedy's Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #185

This is probably true. DireStrike Oct 2013 #235

The thing is we don't know that Lincoln would've done substantially better Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #248

Wow! K&R! This is pretty well incredible, Octafish. Enthusiast Oct 2013 #112

Soak it all in and enjoy, Octafish! nt Mnemosyne Oct 2013 #117

The JFK assassination no longer matters Progressive dog Oct 2013 #118

Michael Parenti: The JFK Assassination and the Gangster Nature of the State Junkdrawer Oct 2013 #119

Would it change anything if Oswald had been a right wing nutcase? seveneyes Oct 2013 #120

Hell yes it matters! Trailrider1951 Oct 2013 #122

yes it still matters because the truth always matters KurtNYC Oct 2013 #123

Good. I am, like others, looking forward to your future posts. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #127

The "assassinations" are continuing... CanSocDem Oct 2013 #128

i once thought the truth always mattered. in america now, not so sure. spanone Oct 2013 #129

JFK assassination conspiracy theories don't matter cpwm17 Oct 2013 #130

Suppose that ironclad evidence was uncovered... MicaelS Oct 2013 #131

What if Law Enforcement solves a 30 year old murder? sabrina 1 Oct 2013 #138

Yes, I want the truth. SalviaBlue Oct 2013 #133

A new tape came out of RFK's murder: there were over 10 shots Taverner Oct 2013 #135

History matters. ScreamingMeemie Oct 2013 #136

Let me save you some money. zappaman Oct 2013 #137

It matters bearfan454 Oct 2013 #141

The presence of a secret organization felix_numinous Oct 2013 #142

Alfred W. McCoy -- The Making of the US Surveillance State Octafish Oct 2013 #187

Wow...that's great. K&R deutsey Oct 2013 #143

I totally agree with you rusty fender Oct 2013 #144

Hell yeah JFK still matters! Initech Oct 2013 #145

Yea, he slept around Boomerproud Oct 2013 #151

That's why it's called ''Passing the Torch.'' Octafish Oct 2013 #188

down she goes frog64 Oct 2013 #148

Of course it matters! tweeternik Oct 2013 #150

It matters, a lot! dreamnightwind Oct 2013 #152

You know I concur (and why) brother. K&R. n/t bobthedrummer Oct 2013 #153

Hell Yes it still matters, ... CRH Oct 2013 #154

Still matters to me. Lifelong Protester Oct 2013 #158

I think it matters depending on how you view the assassination.... cynatnite Oct 2013 #159

Hoping for a great conference, looking forward to your comments on it. Rec. n/t Judi Lynn Oct 2013 #160

Yes Sir! Eddie Haskell Oct 2013 #161

So glad you are going G_j Oct 2013 #162

It still matters.... Spitfire of ATJ Oct 2013 #164

Even the freakin Soviets knew the score ...one day after.... RagAss Oct 2013 #168

reading this thread, it seems the votes are in navarth Oct 2013 #170

It matters. Mc Mike Oct 2013 #172

It will always matter to me. I became a Democrat because of JFK. pacalo Oct 2013 #174

Yup. Still matters. KamaAina Oct 2013 #175

Cyril Wecht is a hero of mine........ mrmpa Oct 2013 #178

Recommended. H2O Man Oct 2013 #179

Oh, absolutely! WinstonSmith4740 Oct 2013 #180

I think it's interesting stuff, but... Hippo_Tron Oct 2013 #182

Good rational point of view IkeRepublican Oct 2013 #183

I think some of JFKs wish list like civil rights, programs for the poor arely staircase Oct 2013 #242

Yes, it matters... KansDem Oct 2013 #184

It matters as much as our Constitution due in part to its first establishment. Festivito Oct 2013 #186

no important, BUT extremely important! fascisthunter Oct 2013 #194

Yes, it still matters. I was seventeen when it happened, Raksha Oct 2013 #195

Yeah, it matters! JackRiddler Oct 2013 #196

I just learned something tonight KamaAina Oct 2013 #201

The assassination was a major event cpwm17 Oct 2013 #214

Zapruder was taking a home movie dflprincess Oct 2013 #253

It's certainly worthy of exposure. xfundy Oct 2013 #205

Only in the thread title. Octafish Oct 2013 #206

kick lonestarnot Oct 2013 #213

kick again. nt. Mc Mike Oct 2013 #219

Worthy. K&R whatchamacallit Oct 2013 #209

Truth always matters William Seger Oct 2013 #210

Yes, it matters - it has always mattered. scarletwoman Oct 2013 #211

It matters. 7wo7rees Oct 2013 #212

5 creepiest things about the Koch brothers engineered shutdown MinM Oct 2013 #217

Interesting. lonestarnot Oct 2013 #220

Sugar Daddy of John Birch Society MinM Oct 2013 #259

When are you going to admit that BootinUp Oct 2013 #222

when G_j Oct 2013 #224

Show where I post BS, otherwise don't smear me. Octafish Oct 2013 #225

... doublethink Oct 2013 #228

JFK threw himself upon the broken barricade between democracy and the fascist national security stat hedda_foil Oct 2013 #229

I believe Oswald did it and acted alone. arely staircase Oct 2013 #240

believe it or not reddread Oct 2013 #249

I have traveled to almost every continent and one thing I have seen almost everywhere DonRedwood Oct 2013 #241

James Swanson on booktv today10/12 -tomorrow10/13 Agony Oct 2013 #246

I now realize that Daniel Brandt's Name Base is back online-it's wonderfully easy to use-KICK bobthedrummer Oct 2013 #247

Keeping the light on....(eom) CanSocDem Oct 2013 #258

I am excited for you Octafish. I know you are going to enjoy this symposium. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #260

yes G_j Oct 2013 #261

Good news. avaistheone1 Oct 2013 #264