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In reply to the discussion: JFK Conference: Amazing Day of Information and Connecting with Good People [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)182. You are most welcome, Suich!
GOOGLE most any of the speakers and their subject areas and the results are astounding.
Oliver Stone explains how Jim Garrison was on the right trail...
Jim Garrison, the KGB, and the CIA
An open letter to Foreign Affairs magazine
by Oliver Stone
The Nation magazine, August 5 /12, 2002
Last fall, Nation contributing editor Max Holland wrote an article for the ClA publication Studies in Intelligence asserting that former New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison was duped by a KGB disinformation operation that led him, along with most Americans, to believe that the CIA had been involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
This spring, Foreign Affairs magazine published a generous review of Hollands article. As co-writers of the film JFK, we sent a reply to Foreign Affairs. The editors refused to publish it. We offered to pay for an ad, but Foreign Affairs again refused.
For the record, here is our reply:
Dear Editors of Foreign Affairs,
Philip Zelikow's review of Max Holland's recent article in the CIA publication Studies in Intelligence is a disservice to your readers. Zelikow uncritically accepts Holland's theory that a KGB disinformation operation back in 1967 is at the root of most Americans' current belief that the CIA was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
Holland's thesis rests on one unproven premise: that the KGB planted a false story in March 1967 in Paese Sera, an Italian leftwing newspaper. The story reported that Clay Shaw, then recently charged with conspiracy to assassinate the President, was a board member of Centro Mondiale Comerciale (CMC), an organization that had been forced out of Italy amid charges that it was a CIA money-laundering front.
The problem Zelikow ignores is that Holland's only evidence to support his premise is one handwritten note by a KGB defector named Vasili Mitrokhin that "refers to a disinformation scheme in 1967 that involved Paese Sera and resulted in publication of a false story in New York." The note, supposedly summarizing a KGB document that Holland has never seen, does not mention Clay Shaw, Centro Mondiale Comerciale, Jim Garrison, or any specific New York publication.
Holland speculates that the New York publication may have been the National Guardian, which based an article on the Paese Sera series. But one short article in an obscure left-wing weekly that routinely picked up stories from the international press does not seem like much of an accomplishment for a KGB disinformation operation. There is no evidence that the Guardian article was picked up anywhere else in the U.S.
Rather than speculate, Holland might have tried to interview the editors of Paese Sera who were responsible for the articles on Centro Mondiale Comerciale, as scholar Joan Mellen has done for her forthcoming biography of Garrison. They would have told him that the six-part series had nothing to do with the KGB or the JFK assassination, that they had never heard of Jim Garrison when they assigned the story six months before, and that they were astonished to see that Shaw might have any connection to the assassination. The articles were actually assigned in the wake of a right-wing coup in Greece and were intended to prevent such a coup in Italy.
Holland says "everything in the Paese Sera story was a lie." His evidence? A recently released CIA document saying that the Agency itself looked into Paese Sera's allegations. and found that the CIA had no connection to CMC or its parent Permindex. Holland may be willing to accept this as the whole truth, but it is unconvincing to the rest of us who have noticed the Agency's tendency to distance itself from its fronts, to release to the public only documents that serve its interest, to fabricate evidence, and to lie outright even under oath to congressional committees.
Two important facts from the Paese Sera story remain true:1. CMC was forced to leave Italy (for Johannesburg, South Africa) in 1962 under a cloud of suspicion about its CIA connections.
2. Clay Shaw was a member of CMC's board, along with such well-known fascist sympathizers as Gutierrez di Spadaforo, undersecretary of agriculture for Mussolini; Ferenc Nagy, former premier of Hungary, and Giuseppe Zigiotti, president of the Fascist National Association for Militia Arms.
Holland claims that the Paese Sera articles were what led Garrison to believe the CIA was involved in the assassination. This is nonsense. Garrison's book On the Trail of the Assassins describes in detail how his uncovering of various pieces of evidence actually led him to the conclusion that the CIA was involved. This gradual process began two days after the assassination when he questioned David Ferrie, a pilot who flew secret missions to Cuba for the CIA and trained Lee Harvey Oswald in his Civil Air Patrol unit. It included his investigation of a 1961 raid of a munitions cache by CIA operatives in Houma, Louisiana; the discovery that several of Oswald's co-workers at Reily Coffee Company in New Orleans now worked at NASA; the fact that Oswald was working out of an office that was running the CIA's local training camp for Operation Mongoose; many eyewitnesses who saw Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and Oswald together, etc. No doubt the Paese Sera series was another piece of the puzzle for Garrison, but it was not the centerpiece of his thinking that Holland makes it out to be.
From the moment his investigation of the JFK assassination became public, Garrison was pilloried in the press. This treatment was part of an orchestrated effort by the CIA to discredit critics of the Warren Commission. A CIA memo dated April 1, 1967, never mentioned by Holland or Zelikow, outlines the strategy and calls for the Agency's "assets" in the media (writers and editors) to publish stories saying the critics were politically motivated, financially motivated, egomaniacal, sloppy in their research, supported the Soviet Union, etc. This is exactly the inaccurate portrait of Garrison that emerged in the press.
With the publication of Holland's recent article attempting to link Jim Garrison to the KGB, the CIA continues to pursue this misguided strategy of smearing Garrison and other critics of the Warren Commission. Fortunately, the American public has never bought the tired old lie that the CIA's misadventures can be written off as figments of KGB disinformation. Too bad your critic did.
Oliver Stone and Zachary Sklar co-writers of the film JFK
Seems like even liberal stalwarts aren't all that keen about keeping the facts about investigations into the assassination of President Kennedy straight.
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JFK Conference: Amazing Day of Information and Connecting with Good People [View all]
Octafish
Oct 2013
OP
He claimed that trip to Ireland to be "The happiest three days of my life".
whathehell
Oct 2013
#351
Did you get permission from Skinner to post reports of a conspiracy theory conference
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#5
Lee Harvey Oswald's high security clearances and easy access in and out of Russia, Monterey DLIFLC
reddread
Oct 2013
#58
Single gunman theory still wins. But it is boring. So people search for something exciting. n-t
Logical
Oct 2013
#96
I don't understand why people can't just stay out of threads they disagree with
Blue_In_AK
Oct 2013
#173
I don't understand why people can't respect the rules and standards of DU.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#175
Is there someone forcing you to comment in this thead? I know that the OP has earned
sabrina 1
Oct 2013
#306
No, which is why his part in JFK CT lore is able to be discussed in Creative Speculation.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#314
Well if people keep telling you something, maybe you should consider what they are saying.
sabrina 1
Oct 2013
#336
and the House of Reps believe Bengazi was a scandal and the Clintons murdered Vince Foster
Hamlette
Oct 2013
#261
No. When alerts are made about possible SOP violations, they go straight to hosts. No juries.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#17
As one of the hosts of the group this post actually belongs in, I invite you to post it there.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#185
No. Don't make like some kind of authority. You don't answer because you can't.
Octafish
Oct 2013
#190
Am I not one of the hosts of Creative Speculation? *checks* Why, yes, I am.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#197
I look forward to your posting of the "debunking" of the "magic bullet" - in Creative Speculation.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#204
You brought up the "debunking" of the "magic bullet" theory in your post #190.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#254
What level of respect should I extend to you, Bolo Boffin? That of 'Authority'?
Octafish
Oct 2013
#267
You bring up a subject, I respond to it, and then you say you have not brought up the subject.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#286
Linking to your attack of President Obama because he contradicted your 9/11 CT helps you how? n/t
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#293
It shows you have been willing to violate this community's standards for years, Octafish.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#309
Nowhere do I attack Obama. The post does show the lengths you go to smear me.
Octafish
Oct 2013
#321
The Kennedy Assassination was a conspiracy. It is NOT a conspiracy theory. So said the HSCA in 1979
avaistheone1
Oct 2013
#212
No, it was not. The HSCA was wrong. The Dictabelt evidence has been shown again and again
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#214
The House Committee on Assassination was correct and their findings still stand to this day.
avaistheone1
Oct 2013
#215
Are you crazy? Despite the facts, you keep saying the same thing over and over again.
avaistheone1
Oct 2013
#221
Your insults don't change the facts. The discussion belongs in Creative Speculation. n/t
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#225
Asking people to abide by DU standards and rules is a "stupid game" to you?
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#235
How about what the ER Dr. has to say?? Seems to me his testimony is extremely important.
sabrina 1
Oct 2013
#275
Sure, feel free to continue .... I'm interested in your opinion, and anyone else's, in the testimony
sabrina 1
Oct 2013
#291
You are the one complaining about posts in GD, in other words, how DU is set up.
morningfog
Oct 2013
#245
Wanting DU rules and standards to be followed is whining about how DU is set up?
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#252
"I don't see the Civil War as being about slavery, but about states' rights."
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#347
The Air Force One tape from Nov. 22, 1963 extant is now available for review...
Octafish
Oct 2013
#188
Thanks for reporting on the conference and keeping this important topic visible
Mc Mike
Oct 2013
#30
The many questions surrounding JFK's assassination is of particular interest to baby boomers.
pacalo
Oct 2013
#31
Yes it is, and a very important part. It was very traumatic & I agree we should keep it in GD.
whathehell
Oct 2013
#53
"Oh, yeah. Welcome to DU. You remind me of someone, Dude.".... I was thinking the same thing!
Ghost in the Machine
Oct 2013
#319
I think it's audacious of you to intimate that only you can interpret the SoP. And your attack
rhett o rick
Oct 2013
#67
Thanks for the report. I see the righteous authoritarians are going apoplectic here.
rhett o rick
Oct 2013
#43
I am not arguing one way or the other as to what actually happened. Neither does this OP.
rhett o rick
Oct 2013
#57
I believe it has to do with comfort bubbles. It is so much easier on your brain if you can
rhett o rick
Oct 2013
#64
Wait, you locked a Pittsburgh Post-Gazette report on this story and redirected to CS
ucrdem
Oct 2013
#81
I suppose you want all threads with the initials JFK to be locked. No conspiracies are discussed
rhett o rick
Oct 2013
#150
Okay thanks, but isn't the PPG story simply reporting remarks made at a local university
ucrdem
Oct 2013
#168
did he go to russia and come back like it werent no thing at the height of the cold war?
reddread
Oct 2013
#73
never would have occurred to Hinckley that GHWB would very much appreciate the favor
reddread
Oct 2013
#76
a series of lone killers took out all the MIC obstacles and civil rights leaders of the 60's
reddread
Oct 2013
#86
i wonder what kind of money one of these conspiracy theory "conferences" makes?
tillikum
Oct 2013
#97
No kidding. Have a combo JFK, 9/11 and Roswell and you would make a million! n-t
Logical
Oct 2013
#100
Throw in the Bildebergers, Tri-Lateral Commission, the Illuminati, and the Masons, too.
SamYeager
Oct 2013
#123
LOL, "conspiracies are real and happen all the time", I would love to hear which ones you call...
Logical
Oct 2013
#109
Remember a little company called Enron? That's a fairly recent example of a proven conspiracy.
Electric Monk
Oct 2013
#121
Seriously, I was pitching Oliver Stone about my sci-fi space opera when all of a sudden...
Octafish
Oct 2013
#195
I am probably not the only one here who thinks it is your little bubble that needs
truedelphi
Oct 2013
#312
Well, I can't make you look at the evidence that shows the HSCA was wrong.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#317
You are most welcome, H20 Man. Thank you for caring about the Truth and what it means for Democracy.
Octafish
Oct 2013
#268
50 years later and they still won't release the JFK assassination records,
JohnyCanuck
Oct 2013
#266
I was sitting right mid section, not too far from the the Boston Globe reporter
MrMickeysMom
Oct 2013
#277
Did you hear Cyril Wecht express contempt for the news media moderating that last Panel?
Octafish
Oct 2013
#320
What? Why in the world would the symposium sponsors believe allowing the media to moderate a panel
avaistheone1
Oct 2013
#341
Is it possible to care for democracy and think it was LHO all by his lonesome?
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#348
Love seeing this in GD. Half of GD is speculation as it is. Am I alone in wanting
BelgianMadCow
Oct 2013
#304
the good thing is these posters are so obnoxious they are easy to identify and ignore
bobduca
Oct 2013
#360
I apologize, Octafish. Permission for this thread was implied in the original grant.
Bolo Boffin
Oct 2013
#345
well said. one of the main reasons I'm a democrat is b/c I can't stand bullies/bullying
nashville_brook
Oct 2013
#362