General Discussion

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)

233. There was no air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion

Tue Oct 29, 2013, 09:59 AM

Oct 2013

and Kennedy had ruled out any other overt operation so I have to think that some on the Right believed that JFK had "surrendered" Cuba. Also this leaflet was passed out in Dallas on the day of the murder so it seems that some did believe it:

But my main point in this line was that Oswald has no known motivation to shoot Gen Walker or Kennedy and shooting at BOTH would make even less sense. Similarly, Jack Ruby's stated motive for shooting Oswald and subsequently being sentenced to death himself is dubious. Lack of a clear motive is a big gap in any investigation. Oswald doesn't say during the perp walk "I shot that bastard Kennedy! Viva Cuba!" and I contrast that with Mark Chapman and John Hinckley Jr. -- both of whom surrendered at the scene(s) and never denied their actions.

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Nov. 22, 1963: 50 years, and still no conspiracy|Op Ed LA Times [View all] BootinUp Oct 2013 OP

yup zappaman Oct 2013 #1

All they have to do is make sure that every fragment of evidence has been released to the public JDPriestly Oct 2013 #76

Was it ever explained why Ruby shot Oswald? KansDem Oct 2013 #87

Ruby's cryptic response... MinM Oct 2013 #91

What is the question he answers... Whiskeytide Oct 2013 #166

At 0'28" KansDem Oct 2013 #216

Thanks. n/t Whiskeytide Oct 2013 #218

Thanks... KansDem Oct 2013 #217

Yes. In Texas. That's why people are not happy with the conclusions of the Warren Report. JDPriestly Oct 2013 #148

When's the last time you read the Warren Report? stopbush Oct 2013 #133

When did you last read it? JDPriestly Oct 2013 #147

Two years ago. stopbush Oct 2013 #151

I haven't read it. But you have inspired me to do so. JDPriestly Oct 2013 #170

Good for you. At least you're open minded. It's available online for free stopbush Oct 2013 #205

what is he selling a book warrior1 Oct 2013 #2

He supports secrets being kept, too RobertEarl Oct 2013 #4

Selling books is what JFK CT'ers do best cpwm17 Oct 2013 #5

I was in college when the assassination occurred. I remember it clearly. I am not happy JDPriestly Oct 2013 #77

And the vast majority of those who discount the Warren Report have never actually read it. stopbush Oct 2013 #135

More than lefties were shot, or shot at. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #177

Because he has tons of evidence and a humanly possible scenario on his side Schema Thing Oct 2013 #8

"fucking unicorns"!!!.... SidDithers Oct 2013 #38

How did Oswald get in and out of the Soviet Union during the height of the Cold War? KurtNYC Oct 2013 #96

Great questions Kurt... MinM Oct 2013 #124

Actually, Kurt, the WCR answers all of those questions, and in detail. stopbush Oct 2013 #136

what page or section? I find no mention of Ferrie or Ruby in the Oswald bio of WCR. KurtNYC Oct 2013 #146

That's the point. stopbush Oct 2013 #152

Someone in this exchange seems to think bullets have brakes and steering KurtNYC Oct 2013 #157

Someone seems to not know the definition of the word "pristine." stopbush Oct 2013 #206

Its not a theory its a single bullet fact. BootinUp Oct 2013 #208

The bullet looks like it was shot into cotton wadding. Octafish Oct 2013 #219

Similar looking bullets have been produced from experiments BootinUp Oct 2013 #222

No. Just on tee vee. Octafish Oct 2013 #223

Gee thanks BootinUp Oct 2013 #227

he went to the Soviet Union and was accepted just as we accepted dozens of grantcart Oct 2013 #153

Perhaps you either haven't read or have forgotten how Oswald got into the USSR. KurtNYC Oct 2013 #163

So you are or are not aware of how Oswald got into the USSR? grantcart Oct 2013 #167

"the last person picked by anyone for a high profile operation" unless you need a patsy perhaps. KurtNYC Oct 2013 #172

The RW did not believe that he was soft on Communism. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #183

There was no air cover for the Bay of Pigs invasion KurtNYC Oct 2013 #233

When a target is moving directly away, it is as if the target is standing still. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #179

Oswald was an accomplished marksman. Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #185

Yes. He passed the Marines qualification standards to be a combat rifleman. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #190

I don't believe the official story, never will n/t doc03 Oct 2013 #3

Me either Shampoyeto Oct 2013 #178

There is a show on Reelz channel this Sunday at 8pm I beleive doc03 Oct 2013 #180

Neither did Sen. Richard Schweiker MinM Oct 2013 #181

Could be because the nitty gritty of the whole story has been under secrecy wraps since it happened. shraby Oct 2013 #6

CA Atty Gen Earl Warren provided racist rhetoric to Lt. Gen DeWitt, OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #7

He later said he: BootinUp Oct 2013 #9

Its funny that you call him a conspiracy entrepeneur BootinUp Oct 2013 #10

Conspiracy Theories by Sunstein & Vermeule. OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #12

I don't see anything there to support calling Earl Warren BootinUp Oct 2013 #14

There was nothing to support the internment of the Japanese OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #15

As he later regretted. You are not ignorant of that I assume? BootinUp Oct 2013 #16

As I had added to my first post, OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #17

Of course you also make this huge leap BootinUp Oct 2013 #20

Heres a decent attempt to explain Warren on Japanese Internment You probably aren't interested BootinUp Oct 2013 #23

Well, what does it say? OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #24

It puts things in context. BootinUp Oct 2013 #25

I'm not interested in reading a long article to see if you had a point. OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #29

Oh yeah, research like I just did, yeah. BootinUp Oct 2013 #32

And here is a link to the relevant part of BootinUp Oct 2013 #33

From Personal Justice Denied OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #35

You're insulting remarks have become boring and dull BootinUp Oct 2013 #44

My wife, a political science major in the early '50s, still vividly recalls one of her professors, indepat Oct 2013 #36

You should read Justice Douglas' notes. OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #37

The secret Notes? Your attempts at sliming Warren are really pathetic BootinUp Oct 2013 #55

Your tantrums are really pathetic. OnyxCollie Oct 2013 #68

The grassy knoll refuses to die. RC Oct 2013 #11

Magical thinking. A route change? Not really. stopbush Oct 2013 #138

The Key To The Warren Report |American Heritage BootinUp Oct 2013 #13

Nobody knows a fucking thing about Oswald. RagAss Oct 2013 #18

Clearly a silly statement on its face. Maybe what you mean to say BootinUp Oct 2013 #22

No...I meant what I said.... RagAss Oct 2013 #165

Bullshit Politicalboi Oct 2013 #19

LOL, the truth is boring I understand. But Oswald did it alone. n-t Logical Oct 2013 #49

The SS testified as to why they weren't on JFK's limo that day. stopbush Oct 2013 #139

How to tell a conspiracy theory is pure bullshit... Archae Oct 2013 #21

We as citizens couldn't handle the truth......its easier to swallow what we are told.... Good god Gin Oct 2013 #26

The truth may be that Oswald acted alone but many refuse to consider that. Kaleva Oct 2013 #28

The truth may be that Oswald didn't act alone, but many refuse to consider that. villager Oct 2013 #40

I read my first JFK conspiracy book in grade school BootinUp Oct 2013 #56

"Murder by Cartoon" villager Oct 2013 #57

Meyers responded to these claims apparently BootinUp Oct 2013 #59

Since you credit the HSCA then, I guess -- since you don't cherry pick, right? -- you agree villager Oct 2013 #60

I think they made a mistake with regards to using the acoustic BootinUp Oct 2013 #61

Of course you do. villager Oct 2013 #62

In your case, I gather your real problem with the official story BootinUp Oct 2013 #63

And I could sift through the other evidence that points to a conspiracy.... villager Oct 2013 #64

But why is the lone nut theory wobbly? BootinUp Oct 2013 #65

Let me turn the question around: Do you believe that all three major 60's assassinations were really villager Oct 2013 #66

I will try to answer that question BootinUp Oct 2013 #67

lol YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #213

That's, this will help me ignore your other posts! nt Logical Oct 2013 #122

Too bad that Hale Boggs who was on the Warren Commission and wanted to re-open an investigation AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #27

Boggs was the most outspoken critic among the three dissenting members dflprincess Oct 2013 #45

The first odd thing was that the police, FBI, et al immediately knew that (1) Oswald was the shooter AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #50

Another unexplainable thing was why the Secret Service agents were called off Nay Oct 2013 #79

Simple, they weren't called off. BootinUp Oct 2013 #83

It's on video. Last Stand Oct 2013 #169

See post #139 above BootinUp Oct 2013 #188

The puzzled "what the hell" gesture can be seen here: AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #95

Well he was identified as the only employee who his employer was certain wasn't missing. grantcart Oct 2013 #154

Yep, stop looking for anyone else if an employer is reportedly missing one employee. Good call. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #155

You raised the question "how did the police know it was Oswald so quickly" grantcart Oct 2013 #156

Not true. Anyone can see the questions at #50: "How did they know that he was the only one involved? AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #158

And I am dealing with the first question: grantcart Oct 2013 #159

At #156, you said I "raised the question 'how did the police know it was Oswald so quickly' AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #160

So we are clear on this point: There is absolutely nothing unusual or mysterious grantcart Oct 2013 #161

What we are clear on is that you create strawmen and falsely attribute statements to others. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #162

I found your post ambiguous and am trying to understand exactly what it is you are alleging. grantcart Oct 2013 #164

Maybe he wasn't in a good mood? BootinUp Oct 2013 #200

Having doubts in the 60s and 70s, and now are two different things BootinUp Oct 2013 #53

I agree oswaldactedalone Oct 2013 #30

lol nt BootinUp Oct 2013 #31

The birth of conspiracy theories was a huge detriment to the intelligence of American society. BluegrassStateBlues Oct 2013 #34

The JFK CT BS was the precursor to birtherism n/t SamYeager Oct 2013 #52

CTs are older than JFK KamaAina Oct 2013 #111

I agree with you on this... YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #211

We all know it was George HW Bush... SidDithers Oct 2013 #39

heehee BootinUp Oct 2013 #42

Yeah. It's not like George Herbert Walker Bush wasn't in Dallas on November 22, 1963. Octafish Oct 2013 #71

Sid is soooo bad. greytdemocrat Oct 2013 #74

''Bite'' is the operative word. Octafish Oct 2013 #81

Why would Bush have to be in Dallas to be involved in the assassination? PAMod Oct 2013 #142

So, why not ask George Herbert Walker Bush? Octafish Oct 2013 #144

There you go, posting something logical in response to the CT'ers... YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #209

Tyler, Texas is not Dallas, Texas. It's not even all that close. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #212

So why did Gerald Ford have to alter the report? Octafish Oct 2013 #41

With more recent (last 15 years or so) analysis on the bullet path BootinUp Oct 2013 #43

Thanks, but all that makes assumptions and cherry-picks in order to buttress the Warren Commission. Octafish Oct 2013 #82

An independently certified 3D computer model says Mr. Griffith is very wrong. BootinUp Oct 2013 #84

Got a link to that? Octafish Oct 2013 #86

Sure! BootinUp Oct 2013 #186

"I Don't Think Lee Harvey Oswald Pulled the Trigger" Dale Myers MinM Oct 2013 #201

Take it up with the independent certifying party. nt BootinUp Oct 2013 #203

ABC News, the company Bill Casey rebuilt for the Company... Octafish Oct 2013 #220

A fine example of the genetic fallacy, Octafish Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #221

Your expert opionion, Bolo Boffin? What's not true in what I posted? Octafish Oct 2013 #224

None of that has anything to do with the video. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #225

Quit with the Sideshow, Bolo Boffin. When it comes to Dallas, CIA calls up its assets in the media. Octafish Oct 2013 #228

Another fine example of the genetic fallacy, Octafish. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #231

Jumping to that conclusion would be a logical fallacy. Octafish Oct 2013 #232

I know you didn't say outright that i am CIA. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #234

So why continue to say what I didn't say, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Oct 2013 #236

What have I said you said that you didn't? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #237

''This self-martyrdom act of yours does get tiresome.'' Octafish Oct 2013 #239

Well, it does. What did I say you said that you didn't? n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #240

Who cares? Octafish Oct 2013 #244

So you intend to keep climbing up on that cross, nailing yourself on, and wailing? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #250

How much time do you have to dedicate yourself to a subthread on an old thread? Octafish Oct 2013 #255

What subthread on an old thread are you referring to? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #262

Hours spent on this one. Octafish Oct 2013 #264

This thread? *scoff* Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #268

Really, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Oct 2013 #272

Really, Octafish. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #273

Really monitoring away. Octafish Oct 2013 #274

Maybe you should calm down. I'm not monitoring you. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #275

You say alter. I say more accurately describe. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #69

Either way, Ford lied. Octafish Oct 2013 #85

Bullshit he did. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #88

Why defend a puke liar, Bolo Boffin? And your question has nothing to do with the subject. Octafish Oct 2013 #89

What do you care about attacking Republicans, Octafish? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #90

Got a link for any of that? Octafish Oct 2013 #92

It amazes me that you deny what you do in other threads, Octafish. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #93

No link to back up what you say. Here's a link from me: Octafish Oct 2013 #94

I just added the link to your posted article smearing Bobby Kennedy. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #97

Out of context, of course. Octafish Oct 2013 #99

The hell it is. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #101

Show where I smeared Bobby Kennedy, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Oct 2013 #103

Right here, Octafish. Third time's the charm? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #105

Wow, Bolo Boffin. No where do I smear Robert Kennedy. So, there is that. Octafish Oct 2013 #109

That says RFK is an accessory to his brother's murder. It doesn't get more "smear" than that. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #110

Not what I wrote, Bolo Boffin. And yet you insist on saying that's what I wrote. Octafish Oct 2013 #116

Why did you post it here, Octafish? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #119

More words you made up, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Oct 2013 #127

I didn't make you post that article here! Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #129

What's sad is you continue to smear me by alleging what I did not write, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Oct 2013 #131

You. Posted. That. Article. And. Refuse. To. Disavow. The. RFK. Smear. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #132

I didn't write what you said, though. Octafish Oct 2013 #145

Yes, you did. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #168

If you're willing to misrepresent what I write, what else do you misrepresent? Octafish Oct 2013 #173

Why can't you answer a simple question? zappaman Oct 2013 #175

I haven't misrepresented you. You posted that link that smeared Bobby Kennedy. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #176

Simple question. zappaman Oct 2013 #123

Why do you want fewer people to learn what happened to President Kennedy, zappaman? Octafish Oct 2013 #128

So you can't answer the question? zappaman Oct 2013 #134

Wow! Tag Team propaganda. Octafish Oct 2013 #143

You really do think Robert Kennedy was an accessory after the fact in his brother's murder. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #196

That's a propaganda technique. Octafish Oct 2013 #245

So you do not think RFK was an accessory to his brother's murder? Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #253

You bring up things I didn't say and try to make me use my time defending them. Octafish Oct 2013 #256

No, that's not what you think. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #260

Don't write things I didn't write, then. Octafish Oct 2013 #266

I haven't. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #269

So you post where I show how you cherry-pick a quote? Octafish Oct 2013 #98

Cherry pick??? It's an entire section of the article! Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #100

Why should I spend time fighting your straw man, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Oct 2013 #102

You linked to an article that smeared Bobby Kennedy. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #104

That's not what I wrote or what the article stated. Octafish Oct 2013 #106

You are wrong. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #107

So where did I smear Robert Kennedy, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Oct 2013 #113

When you posted the article that smears him. That's when you did it. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #115

So, I didn't say what you allege and I have to apologize? Octafish Oct 2013 #118

What doesn't escape me is your unwillingness to disavow the smear of RFK. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #120

WOW! zappaman Oct 2013 #114

Tag Team! Octafish Oct 2013 #117

It's not out of context at all zappaman Oct 2013 #121

Tag Team! Yay! Octafish Oct 2013 #125

You didn't answer the question, but you never do. zappaman Oct 2013 #126

Tag Team! Yay! What I wrote 10 years ago today... Octafish Oct 2013 #130

Here's also what you wrote earlier this year... zappaman Oct 2013 #137

Wow, zappaman. You're so wise, you're repeating the same thing twice. Octafish Oct 2013 #141

"Show where Oswald killed JFK or anyone..." Sure. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #195

So what? Bugliosi ignores what we've learned over the past 50 years. Octafish Oct 2013 #226

Bugliosi manifestly does not do that. Thompson's assertion is ludicrous. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #235

So now you don't like Bugliosi? Octafish Oct 2013 #238

I didn't say that, Octafish. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #241

Why should I answer your demands, Bolo Boffin? Octafish Oct 2013 #243

"demands" - you must mean my questions. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #247

I have, all up and down this thread. Octafish Oct 2013 #249

You posted an article that smeared Robert Kennedy and commended the author to us. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #251

No.That's what you said I wrote. Octafish Oct 2013 #254

So what I said you wrote is you commending the author to us? That's where Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #258

No where there did I write what you said, Bolo Boffin. Octafish Oct 2013 #259

You aren't fooling anyone. n/t Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #261

Not my problem. Octafish Oct 2013 #265

America knew the truth the minute Lee Harvey Oswald was arrested. duffyduff Oct 2013 #46

+1000! n-t Logical Oct 2013 #48

Oh no, the grassy knoll people will be freaking out. n-t Logical Oct 2013 #47

50 years later and water is still wet. Rex Oct 2013 #51

Conspiracy theorists are like true religious believers. kiva Oct 2013 #54

The real fervor is from those who have stayed willingly blind through three major "coincidental" villager Oct 2013 #58

And three men who had been opponents of Richard Nixon for the Presidency, Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #72

Coincidences happen. YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #214

Two times is a coincidence Art_from_Ark Oct 2013 #215

In 1964, when the Warren report was issued, meanit Oct 2013 #70

Nothing wrong with being skeptical BootinUp Oct 2013 #73

Those who want to squelch any inquiry may be understood by remembering a quote from Einstein. AnotherMcIntosh Oct 2013 #78

United States House Select Committee on Assassinations in 1976 concluded it was a likely conspiracy. grahamhgreen Oct 2013 #140

Oh dear. The only problem is that conclusion was all based on a very flawed BootinUp Oct 2013 #184

HSCA came to the correct conclusion in spite of CIA obstruction. MinM Oct 2013 #193

Nope. The Dictabelt recorded a motorcycle two miles away from Dealey Plaza. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #194

Admittedly that was the weakest evidence... MinM Oct 2013 #197

That was the only thing that got them to conclude conspiracy. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #198

MinM, the whole basis for the "conspiracy" was the flawed 4th shot nonsense. BootinUp Oct 2013 #199

Skepticism is not the main goal of conspiracy theorists... Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #189

I just want a reasonable, coherent explanation for DiverDave Oct 2013 #75

That movie is legendary for its inaccuracies, but sure I know exactly BootinUp Oct 2013 #80

nope, aint no way a ballistic object DiverDave Oct 2013 #171

Your just f'in with me, lol. BootinUp Oct 2013 #182

Easy to fire that fast. The bullet was a full metal jacket bullet, designed to penetrate. GreenStormCloud Oct 2013 #191

How dare they criticize my middle class hobby! The Midway Rebel Oct 2013 #108

Like when the Government swore Iraq had WMDs. Octafish Oct 2013 #149

Wow, a blue link to one of your own posts. The Midway Rebel Oct 2013 #174

Right, like where did you write about lying America into wars for profit? Octafish Oct 2013 #192

Awesome. The Midway Rebel Oct 2013 #202

So, your answer should be: ''I haven't written anything on DU about wars for profit.'' Octafish Oct 2013 #230

I haven't written anything on DU about wars for profit... The Midway Rebel Oct 2013 #277

That was a fairly easily obtained conspiracy. The level of complexity to the JFK assassination... Gravitycollapse Oct 2013 #187

No conspiracy? KamaAina Oct 2013 #112

Fuck that I wouldn't trust the god damn Warren Commission gopiscrap Oct 2013 #150

While there seems to be a few folks interested BootinUp Oct 2013 #204

Mission accomplished. Rex Oct 2013 #207

The responses in this thread prove that conspiratorial thinking is not just for the Right... YoungDemCA Oct 2013 #210

What's amazing is how closed-minded some people are. Octafish Oct 2013 #229

Not amazing, so typical that it is scary. Social engineering seems to work like a charm. Rex Oct 2013 #242

Remember who was elected on a platform to eliminate the Department of Education? Octafish Oct 2013 #246

Amazing. Rex Oct 2013 #248

Remember Steve Kangas? Octafish Oct 2013 #252

I did not know that about Kangas! Rex Oct 2013 #257

Yes, Kangas committed suicide in Scaife's offices. Bolo Boffin Oct 2013 #263

That makes me want to vomit. Some lost soul still trying to sell that POS report. Zen Democrat Oct 2013 #267

Well if you have to, stick your head out the window at least! BootinUp Oct 2013 #270

To the brave 13 who reccd this thread... BootinUp Oct 2013 #271

Nonsense. That anyone can still advance the "official" story as true is laughable. GoneFishin Oct 2013 #276

Why didn't you just post that BootinUp Oct 2013 #278

Because that is not the truth. It's that simple. n/t GoneFishin Nov 2013 #279