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struggle4progress

(123,813 posts)
13. Enough people survived the bunker so that the events of 30 April 1945 there
Thu Jan 16, 2014, 03:47 PM
Jan 2014

can be reconstructed with some confidence from testimony

Albert Speer later testified that Hitler had told him on 22 April he intended to commit suicide and have his body burned. Speer, as the only top Nazi to express regret for his role in the Third Reich, is generally regarded as a reliable witness

Valet Heinz Linge later testified that Hitler had told him on 28 April he intended to commit suicide and have his body burned and gave some instructions to Linge regarding the cremation

Hitler Youth leader Artur Axmann later testified he had heard the gunshot when Hitler committed suicide, before escaping from the bunker with Martin Bormann and Ludwig Stumpfegger, from whom he then separated; returning later on the same path, he testified he saw the bodies of Borman and Stumpfegger. Two buried skeletons were discovered during construction in 1972 a few yards from the location Axmann had identified, both apparently dead from glass cyanide capsules, and one skeleton was conclusively identified as Bormann's using DNA in 1998, which suggests Axmann is a reliable witness

Hitler's personal pilot Hans Baur was in the bunker until after the suicide; he had had plans to fly Hitler to safety from Berlin, which Hitler declined, and after Hitler's suicide found the roads too damaged to use as airstrips, so escaped the bunker on foot and was captured. Had he flown Hitler to safety at the end of April, as sometimes conjectured, there would have been no reason for him to fly back to the bunker, and it's doubtful he could have landed safely due to rapidly deteriorating conditions

Hitler's chaffeur Erich Kempka later said he had fled from the bunker as Hitler prepared to commit suicide. He was responsible for delivery of some gasoline used to burn the corpses

Otto Günsche was instructed prior to Hitler's suicide on disposal of the body and stood guard outside the room while Hitler committed suicide. He was promptly captured by the Soviets in Berlin

Courier Rochus Misch was present when Hitler's body was discovered in the bunker and when Goebbels committed suicide. He was promptly captured by the Soviets

Armin Lehmann was Hitler's courier when Hitler committed suicide. He participated in the subsequent break-out from the bunker

Werner Naumann did escape from the bunker and finally made his way to Argentina. He had left the bunker originally in a group including Bormann, Stumpfegger, Axmann, and Baur. He returned to Germany secretly a few years later, where he was arrested for Nazi activity

Three couriers smuggled Hitler's 29 April last will and testament from the bunker: Heinz Lorenz, Willy Johannmeyer, and Wilhelm Zander. All were eventually captured by British or American forces

Wilhelm Burgdorf, a witness to Hitler's last will and testament, committed suicide on 2 May as also did witness Hans Krebs

The chances for anyone in the bunker pulling off Naumann's stunt were quite slim. Günsche, Linge, and Misch were captured in early May. Bormann and Stumpfegger committed suicide in Berlin, apparently concluding escape was impossible. Peter Högl and Ewald Lindloff died in Berlin on 2 May after escaping the bunker. Axmann, Baur, and Kempka escaped from Berlin but were later arrested in Germany. It took Lehmann two months to work his way from the bunker to the American zone of occupation

The chance that Hitler himself could have pulled off such a stunt was even slimmer. His image had been published worldwide for rather more than decade. Berlin was full of allied soldiers who loathed him. And the truth is, he wasn't very popular in Germany anymore, either, except among Nazi fanatics. The regular military had never much like him, and less than a year before had actually tried to kill him. Hitler had also surrounded himself with opportunists seeking their own power: by April, Himmler was trying to negotiate a separate peace with the allies, while Goring tried to convince Hitler to had over power to Goring. Speer testified that at this time he had formulated his own plan to kill Hitler by poison gas but was foiled by a tall chimney added to a bunker ventilation shaft. And Berlin in ruins: people there were concerned with their own survival, not with risking their lives to help a sick old crazy man who had destroyed their country




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He was talking about Bush41 and Bush43. Octafish Jan 2014 #1
Naw, he resides in the deep with Bin Ladin. NV Whino Jan 2014 #2
Actually, Hitler escaped to the secret Nazi base in Antarctica, then to the Nazi moon base...... LongTomH Jan 2014 #3
Actually, there was a documentary on the Nazi moon base: It was called "Iron Sky". DetlefK Jan 2014 #7
Hate to have to tell ya this, pal; but, "Iron Sky" wasn't a documentary! LongTomH Jan 2014 #11
I saw that documentary! zappaman Jan 2014 #12
I tried to watch that. Warren DeMontague Jan 2014 #24
I thought Hitler was still alive? zappaman Jan 2014 #4
Ever seen Bubba Ho-tep FSogol Jan 2014 #19
Yes, I've seen that documentary. n/t zappaman Jan 2014 #20
LOL. I guess more research went into it than Corsi's "book" n/t FSogol Jan 2014 #21
Oh that's an original one snooper2 Jan 2014 #5
Oh my Aerows Jan 2014 #6
The biggest problem with the Hitler suicide theory is the bodies. former9thward Jan 2014 #8
The Soviets found the bodies econoclast Jan 2014 #16
The Soviets had to stop because they were up against the American Army. former9thward Jan 2014 #18
Way ahead of you. Archae Jan 2014 #9
Hardly new, fairly sure that one has been floating around for decades Lurks Often Jan 2014 #10
Enough people survived the bunker so that the events of 30 April 1945 there struggle4progress Jan 2014 #13
It's true! Behind the Aegis Jan 2014 #14
Well ... It's nice to see that's finally settled. In_The_Wind Jan 2014 #17
Seems legit . . . HughBeaumont Jan 2014 #15
Damn he is NOT the first one to suggest this nadinbrzezinski Jan 2014 #22
Either way he is most certainly dead now. By the way when I was in highschool there were stories jwirr Jan 2014 #23
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