General Discussion

PosterChild

(1,307 posts)

139. As a people becomes enlightened and learns, they progress...

Sun Mar 2, 2014, 04:02 PM

Mar 2014

... towards greater political and civil liberty - towards more authentic democracy.

The Union of Soviet Socialistic Republics was a democracy, and Ukraine was one of those republics. Did the collapse of the Soviet Union advance or retard democracy for the Russian people? For the people of Ukraine? And if so, how could the "overthrow of a democracy" advance democracy?

The Russian people took a step forward by overthrowing their previous democracy and replacing it with the current, more democratic government. But obviously, given the persecution of gays, killing of journalists, imprisonment of activist like Pussy Riot, they have a long way to go; they just aren't there yet.

The EU is, quite obviously, an advanced, enlightened and vastly more humane, liberal democratic society than Russia. By aligning themselves with the western liberal democracies, and moving away from the regressive, more authoritarian democracy of the former Soviet Union, the people of the Ukraine are moving their democracy forward.

They are replacing an authoritarian regime with democratic tendencies by a more authentically liberal, democratic and civil society. Solidarity!

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I really can't believe some of what I've been reading here today. [View all] TheMightyFavog Mar 2014 OP

Recommended. Heidi Mar 2014 #1

Why I'll do the same! Puglover Mar 2014 #66

Hello, handsome! Heidi Mar 2014 #68

Puglover! WhiteTara Mar 2014 #108

Thanks. Puglover Mar 2014 #109

May I? It's so great! WhiteTara Mar 2014 #122

I've always loved it too Aerows Mar 2014 #135

Hey Puglover!! bleedinglib Mar 2014 #274

Just one here. Puglover Mar 2014 #297

TheMightyFavog Speaks- TheMightyFavog Speaks For Me NBachers Mar 2014 #2

It's not very often people have said that about me. TheMightyFavog Mar 2014 #123

And for me! LongTomH Mar 2014 #125

And for me! n/t Aerows Mar 2014 #136

American Imperialism Chris Diesel Mar 2014 #3

And how does persecuting gays/killing journalists/imprisoning Pussy Riot Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #5

You got that right. MADem Mar 2014 #20

I agree completely with that approach. cheapdate Mar 2014 #58

Thank you, MADem: the voice of reason! loudsue Mar 2014 #69

You're becoming one of my favorite DUers. nt Flatulo Mar 2014 #119

I wish I could LIKE this post. Nicely said. NT Adrahil Mar 2014 #127

MADem, yes, not going to invade Russia or nuke them. I'm glad I've missed any calls for it here. freshwest Mar 2014 #145

+1 freshwest and MADem Hekate Mar 2014 #174

Ah, yes, the sarcasm icon may still be needed here! Sorry you saw the crazy, though. freshwest Mar 2014 #185

WSJ and LATimes have some very good articles w/historical perspective Hekate Mar 2014 #231

By war being war being waged by Obama are you referring to the claims of CIA involvement? davidpdx Mar 2014 #319

That or some version of voodoo being practiced. Sometimes just being POTUS = Evil Monster. And... freshwest Mar 2014 #324

Well put davidpdx Mar 2014 #335

Said so well, freshwest! Isoldeblue Mar 2014 #254

+1 ismnotwasm Mar 2014 #298

Thank you. Wish I could recommend a comment! n/t moriah Mar 2014 #177

+10 (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #236

+1 Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2014 #275

+ 1000 davidpdx Mar 2014 #320

Some people want to see everything as BBR Esq Mar 2014 #73

John Cleese said it makes 'em FEEL GOOD: freshwest Mar 2014 #191

Hit the nail right on the head. BBR Esq Mar 2014 #194

War is not the answer Demsrule86 Mar 2014 #343

You are conflating sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #75

Strengthening and Encouraging... PosterChild Mar 2014 #113

Exactly how in the hell does the overthrow sulphurdunn Mar 2014 #114

As a people becomes enlightened and learns, they progress... PosterChild Mar 2014 #139

How many Vietnamese and Iraqis have we killed during our "strengthening and encouraging" rhett o rick Mar 2014 #117

Man, that's my foremost thought here! Plucketeer Mar 2014 #121

Here are some of the actions... PosterChild Mar 2014 #147

Here is a list of the nefreious, shadowy, underhanded... PosterChild Mar 2014 #143

If your point is that we should help them achieve Democracy, I would answer that we rhett o rick Mar 2014 #153

Take a look at the list of activities... PosterChild Mar 2014 #160

Sorry if I misread your point. Maybe if you would simply state it outright I wouldnt have to guess. rhett o rick Mar 2014 #164

I'll try to be more clear and strightforward in the future. (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #170

Why not start now? What was your point? nm rhett o rick Mar 2014 #261

My point is that... PosterChild Mar 2014 #303

The purpose of NED is to whore for the 1%. They loved Yanukovych as long as-- eridani Mar 2014 #317

Sure. And I suppose you think... PosterChild Mar 2014 #341

They are solidly behind AUSTERITY. They were solidly behind Yankuvich when-- eridani Mar 2014 #342

You seem to think that... PosterChild Mar 2014 #345

Human progress is NOT austerity. eridani Mar 2014 #346

It's not Gazprom freebies either... PosterChild Mar 2014 #348

The only thing they get from EU austerity is economic destruction. eridani Mar 2014 #349

LOL, sure, just ask anyone in Poland.... PosterChild Mar 2014 #350

Ask them in Greece while you are at it n/t eridani Mar 2014 #351

Ha - Greece didn't leave the EU... PosterChild Mar 2014 #352

Greece was indeed fucked over by EU eridani Mar 2014 #353

Ssshhhhh, American Privilege!! We can do that then condemn it if we feel like it. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #148

You are completely ignoring the fact that the democratically elected Parliament threw his ass out. Adrahil Mar 2014 #129

+100 (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #144

How do you feel about US support, financially, for the Govt of Uganda, for Uzbekistan's dictator, sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #149

My bet is... PosterChild Mar 2014 #154

Which parts of the world? sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #163

The Ukraine (nt) PosterChild Mar 2014 #173

He called it a "meme".... PosterChild Mar 2014 #78

OMG EXACTLEEEEEEE sibelian Mar 2014 #175

They project. Igel Mar 2014 #84

Which country are you talking about? Uganda maybe, Saudi Arabia, Uzbekistan sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #100

Oh, you! sibelian Mar 2014 #137

I hate spoiling people's fun, but we Liberals can't seem to help jamming the 'works' with facts. sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #176

Obama isn't perfect, but he's better than Bush. amandabeech Mar 2014 #156

I mind that hypocrisy in any form, especially when it is representing us. Had this country sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #188

Bush's war was idiotic, but a MILLION Iraqis were not killed. Not even close. 7962 Mar 2014 #247

100,000? Is that better? You realize that we were told from the beginning, that 'we count bodies' sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #269

Imagine one child in the west killed by a foreign military and anyone daring to minimize polly7 Mar 2014 #279

No, I cannot imagine it for a minute. Or women being raped, or children being sodomized by foreign sabrina 1 Mar 2014 #286

Thank 'you' Sabrina. polly7 Mar 2014 #295

I agree, ALL were a waste in a war that shouldve never been started. 7962 Mar 2014 #290

Only if you insist on counting only those killed violently eridani Mar 2014 #318

Maybe we should Invade/attack Uganda first? 2banon Mar 2014 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author Th1onein Mar 2014 #278

That's exactly right newfie11 Mar 2014 #10

"35% of Russia's riches in the hands of 110 people" muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #16

Oh my God. NuclearDem Mar 2014 #241

Distorting Russia MattSh Mar 2014 #23

I read that piece, hard to take seriously his critique of 'press distortions' about Russia because Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #33

Holy Crap! Adrahil Mar 2014 #126

Paean to Putin? Maedhros Mar 2014 #182

I'm sensing trolls myself nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #4

Same here. Most names I'm familiar with aren't advocating U.S. Pretzel_Warrior Mar 2014 #6

they are either a kook or they are a troll - either way they need to be banned Douglas Carpenter Mar 2014 #29

I agree steve2470 Mar 2014 #30

That, would be pure insanity! Anyone can join DU, I always look at post count first. I see RKP5637 Mar 2014 #52

I agree. I have been here since 2004-ish(lurked for awhile) and these pro-war with Russia posts anneboleyn Mar 2014 #70

They came for the Olympics, they stayed for the invasion of the Ukraine!!! MADem Mar 2014 #64

Or people who haven't realized the Cold War is over. Sorry, Charlie, no war for you! n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #187

If this was the sixties I wonder if they would be calling for our involvement in Vietnam lostincalifornia Mar 2014 #7

i dont wonder at all reddread Mar 2014 #189

Fortunately, I don't think Obama would even dream of LuvNewcastle Mar 2014 #8

Only a loony toon would tangle with Russia. longship Mar 2014 #12

People used to say the same thing about Afghanistan. merrily Mar 2014 #19

"used to"? DireStrike Mar 2014 #41

They still do. longship Mar 2014 #74

Afghanistan isn't called the Graveyard of Empires Aerows Mar 2014 #138

Election year / War year Cartoonist Mar 2014 #27

You've a very simplistic view Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #44

Well put. dixiegrrrrl Mar 2014 #56

Well said !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2014 #57

America doesn't like war? MNBrewer Mar 2014 #63

Did you not catch this part of my post? Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #65

Iraq didn't attack us! MNBrewer Mar 2014 #76

Um, yes, I'm aware of that. Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #79

Let's argue about my innacuracies. Cartoonist Mar 2014 #150

Johnson was "elected" president once. Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #243

LBJ was elected in 1960 Cartoonist Mar 2014 #302

Um, no, Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #304

Johnson was on the ballot as Veep Cartoonist Mar 2014 #305

OK, I"m sorry. Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #306

That's OK Cartoonist Mar 2014 #332

Doesn't war usually have a "rally around the president" effect, at least early on? Skip Intro Mar 2014 #245

Some DU'ers only oppose war when Republicans are in office Scootaloo Mar 2014 #9

Or they could be mccain clones/trolls.. nobody I know of is advocating war with Cha Mar 2014 #11

Especially not Obama, a Democratic president. Remember this? freshwest Mar 2014 #203

Thanks for that, freshwest.. I was just thinking about it yesterday. EarlG Got It.. even if Cha Mar 2014 #208

Scootaloo, Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #45

Well said, Scootaloo! City Lights Mar 2014 #46

+1,000,000 L0oniX Mar 2014 #81

Wasn't aware that pacificism was an integral part of progressivism. Igel Mar 2014 #89

Pacifism and opposition to war are different things. Scootaloo Mar 2014 #124

+1 Marr Mar 2014 #111

Boom Aerows Mar 2014 #130

+1, sad but true. harun Mar 2014 #186

"A fashion accessory"? Got any examples? Specifics? That's an ugly accusation for "a lot of people" Cha Mar 2014 #214

That's one way of looking at things. mythology Mar 2014 #234

But W. looked into the eyes of Pootie-Poot and saw his soul. King_Klonopin Mar 2014 #13

.......... trusty elf Mar 2014 #34

Gotta be photoshopped! No way Putin would let Shrub drive, LOL. Great pic, thanks. n/t freshwest Mar 2014 #217

Ha! trusty elf Mar 2014 #226

Love the pretzel. Nice touch. King_Klonopin Mar 2014 #288

More war! peace13 Mar 2014 #14

When was the last time we actually had peace talks? merrily Mar 2014 #17

When Bill Clinton was leaving office. RC Mar 2014 #85

What do you call the Peace Negotiations with Iran that President Obama initiated? Cha Mar 2014 #206

Forgive me Cha. peace13 Mar 2014 #293

No, take heart, as they are back again: freshwest Mar 2014 #218

You are not the first to say that DU has moved right. merrily Mar 2014 #15

Putin is right wing, though muriel_volestrangler Mar 2014 #21

A zeal for military intervention and unitary executive are also rightist, so it's not that simple. merrily Mar 2014 #22

"unitary executive" isn't rightist. Igel Mar 2014 #93

Excellent post malaise Mar 2014 #18

Message auto-removed Name removed Mar 2014 #24

There is a lot I don't understand around here BainsBane Mar 2014 #25

wow G_j Mar 2014 #31

There have been many "white privilege" posts lately, along with several about the Sports Illustrated brush Mar 2014 #37

"Listing right" is a charitable description. Heidi Mar 2014 #38

Hi, Heidi. brush Mar 2014 #54

Neither has anyone else Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #49

Who's 'fawned' over Putin? Links? nt. polly7 Mar 2014 #35

There will be no links forth coming. RC Mar 2014 #80

I agree. It seems to be all about dividing DU'ers into whatever little polly7 Mar 2014 #83

There is always this one BainsBane Mar 2014 #157

Do you have a point? polly7 Mar 2014 #161

You asked for links of people supporting Russia BainsBane Mar 2014 #162

Take your 'Russia' hate and shove it. polly7 Mar 2014 #165

People are supporting those in 'Crimea' who've asked for help. polly7 Mar 2014 #180

Well, thank goodness we have Putin to liberate Crimea by the use of military force BainsBane Mar 2014 #196

'You were told the Iraqis greeted the Americans as liberators.' polly7 Mar 2014 #199

I opposed the war from before it started and throughout BainsBane Mar 2014 #204

Nah ......... sorry. I hate war anywhere, by any one. polly7 Mar 2014 #213

Asked for help? BainsBane Mar 2014 #230

The Crimeans identify as Russian. polly7 Mar 2014 #233

Trying to find a grain of ideological consistency BainsBane Mar 2014 #246

Desperate and pathetic. polly7 Mar 2014 #248

That makes clear you can't defend your argument BainsBane Mar 2014 #262

Don't 'tangle with you'? polly7 Mar 2014 #277

*snork* pacalo Mar 2014 #289

Thank you pacalo. polly7 Mar 2014 #291

That was in directly response to people demanding links BainsBane Mar 2014 #307

And you were too happy to step up to the plate -- on several threads. pacalo Mar 2014 #314

Breaking News BainsBane Mar 2014 #310

So what's with the McCarthyesque lists you're eagerly supplying? pacalo Mar 2014 #315

Reality clearly makes no difference to you BainsBane Mar 2014 #323

Talking about the untruthful OP you wrote about SI not ever 'honoring women' on their covers? pacalo Mar 2014 #333

Yes, I have no doubt you think an average of one cover a year BainsBane Mar 2014 #336

Since you're providing links about DUers, show me where I've supported Putin's invasion of Crimea. pacalo Mar 2014 #337

Am I in error? BainsBane Mar 2014 #338

Yes -- as usual. pacalo Mar 2014 #339

Are you denouncing the others who provided links when asked? BainsBane Mar 2014 #340

Oh great. I just Puglover Mar 2014 #296

Clearly you don't know me BainsBane Mar 2014 #308

Clearly I know you Puglover Mar 2014 #321

Perhaps it's you I don't know BainsBane Mar 2014 #326

I'm sorry. polly7 Mar 2014 #309

I can't even begin Aerows Mar 2014 #134

LOL. polly7 Mar 2014 #215

NOBODY on this board has EVER said Le Taz Hot Mar 2014 #47

LOL BainsBane Mar 2014 #120

She has no personal agenda with Snowden. hrmjustin Mar 2014 #152

Links or withdraw that claim, please. /nt Marr Mar 2014 #112

Here is one BainsBane Mar 2014 #141

This message was self-deleted by its author Marr Mar 2014 #200

Wait a minute. An OP shocked at people supporting a military strike is pro Putin???? Autumn Mar 2014 #207

The link is not to the OP. It is to post 3. BainsBane Mar 2014 #228

A newbie Autumn Mar 2014 #229

Another BainsBane Mar 2014 #146

Then the absurd contention that Russian intervention is an act of Ukranian self-determination BainsBane Mar 2014 #151

"The Russia bashing has backfired" BainsBane Mar 2014 #158

This is about what I expected, after your bizarre linkage to Snowden above. Marr Mar 2014 #205

There's a serious reading comprehension problem there. Autumn Mar 2014 #210