General Discussion

ProSense

(116,464 posts)

100. No,

Sat Mar 29, 2014, 12:38 PM

Mar 2014

"ACA fan club member Paul Krugman disagrees"

He explains the disconnect best, citing what Jonathan Chait calls the "Heritage uncertainty principle":

And here’s the thing: Republicans don’t want to help the unfortunate. They’ll propound health-care ideas that will, they claim, help those with preexisting conditions and so on — but those aren’t really proposals, they’re diversionary tactics designed to stall real health reform. Chait finds Newt Gingrich more or less explicitly admitting this.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/a-health-care-mystery-explained/?_r=0

Republican proposals are hypothetical and theoretical BS. They have no intention of doing anything positive. They get credit for pushing things that they don't actually support and would never enact.

It's like Romney's veto of the most significant parts of the MA health care law.

It's like the AEI asshole pushing that Republicans should stand up for the safety net when his actual message is the poor should support destroying it.

Naked Blackmail

It turns out that in the final stages of the debt negotiations, Republicans suddenly added a new demand — a trigger that would end up eliminating the individual mandate in health care reform.

This is telling, in a couple of ways.

First, the health care mandate has nothing to do with debt and deficits. So this is naked blackmail: the GOP is trying to use the threat of financial catastrophe to impose its policy vision, even in areas that have nothing to do with the issue at hand, a vision that it lacks the votes to enact through normal legislation.

Second, this is a demand Obama can’t accept, unless he plans on changing his party registration. Health reform doesn’t work without a mandate (remember the primary? Maybe better not to). And if health reform is undermined, Obama will have achieved nothing. So by adding this demand, Republicans were in effect saying no deal — unless, I guess, they believed that Obama is a total pushover.

Awesome.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/23/naked-blackmail/

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Sorry, but I don't buy the "But we couldn't have gotten single-payer" defense [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 OP

Sanders: Single Payer Never Had A Chance ProSense Mar 2014 #1

With all due respect to the esteemed Mr. Sanders -- Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #12

"So"? ProSense Mar 2014 #18

Accurate Summation DevineBovine Mar 2014 #92

Pfft.. what does Sen Sanders know? Cha Mar 2014 #13

yea, what does he know ? steve2470 Mar 2014 #140

He was only Cha Mar 2014 #143

I think Bernie would have spoken his mind, if we could have gotten it steve2470 Mar 2014 #144

Oh yeah.. that's what I'm sayin'.. Cha Mar 2014 #145

Not only that... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #59

People need to push for more. I mean, ProSense Mar 2014 #66

I agree people need to push for more... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #81

Well, ProSense Mar 2014 #83

There was no "debate about links"... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #89

I understood ProSense Mar 2014 #97

I am objecting... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #102

They most ProSense Mar 2014 #110

ACA did accomplish some of those same things thesquanderer Mar 2014 #112

ACA began moving in that direction... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #122

Maybe but I do believe they could have got a Medicare buy in if they had tried, they didn't ebbie15644 Mar 2014 #91

Of course, the public option did. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #158

We can do anything we want, that's what democracy is all about. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #2

However, we need more than 10 Senators to pass it karynnj Mar 2014 #51

That's just the way things are now, we can change that too. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #53

Too many conservative Dems remain in the party to push for any meaningful progressive reform. nt NorthCarolina Mar 2014 #134

Right, we haven't changed it yet. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #141

At least three of the people I love most in this world have "pre-existing" conditions, so ... dawg Mar 2014 #3

Is it just a sad coincidence that insurance has jacked-up the cost of healthcare to the point Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #9

Sadly, I have resigned myself to the fact that the corporatists are in power and aren't letting go. dawg Mar 2014 #17

Could have would have should of awake Mar 2014 #4

You weren't there so you don't know. randome Mar 2014 #5

I never assigned motive, I noted observable facts. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #10

'Observable facts' without attention to circumstances give a one-sided story. randome Mar 2014 #15

Okay. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #20

I sure as hell don't have all the answers. randome Mar 2014 #23

Actually you stated an opinion mythology Mar 2014 #154

I think the President was well intentioned, but I also think he has bought into much of the ... dawg Mar 2014 #22

Maybe. Hard to say sometimes. At least for me it is. randome Mar 2014 #29

well, the ACA WAS the republican plan at one time, remember? CTyankee Mar 2014 #45

Obama has said as much BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #69

How can we have Single Payer, when they throw people in jail for advocating for the Public Option? RC Mar 2014 #6

It was not advocating for single payer, but repeatedly disrupting a Senate hearing karynnj Mar 2014 #57

They were refused speaking time, when they went through the proper channels. RC Mar 2014 #139

There was NO entitlement for them to have speaking time at a committee hearing karynnj Mar 2014 #150

In other words the process was a stacked deck from the get-go. RC Mar 2014 #151

Did you think it a random process? karynnj Mar 2014 #153

On another point, ProSense Mar 2014 #7

I would change the words Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #8

Has anyone actually defined "single payer"... TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #11

Skimming 15% off the top for insurance companies doesn't feel like a solution think Mar 2014 #25

Medicare and Medicaid are in fact single payer. The VA is pure Socialized Medicine. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #27

Because even the Democrats were not going to allow it treestar Mar 2014 #14

True. That includes people who are on Hobby Lobby's side. kcr Mar 2014 #34

It's pretty simple. Conservative Dems wouldn't have voted for single payer. End of argument. DanTex Mar 2014 #16

I know wouldn't cause I asked him. Cha Mar 2014 #21

Historically that's a piss-poor way to legislate... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #84

I completely agree that single payer should have been part of the discussion. DanTex Mar 2014 #103

I agree 100% with everything you say in this post! +10000 n/t ljm2002 Mar 2014 #107

Then there would be no ACA... Drunken Irishman Mar 2014 #111

Well, that's the question. I don't know if that's true. DanTex Mar 2014 #114

I think Obama knew he was operating under a small window... Drunken Irishman Mar 2014 #130

+1. historylovr Mar 2014 #106

nailed it nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #142

Let's test your argument more directly. I'll spot you every bluedog Senator ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #19

Easy. Disable him. Make him irrelevant. Timez Squarez Mar 2014 #60

Francis Walsingham? Is that you? Recursion Mar 2014 #63

Nope ... he had to actually vote. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #64

Yeah. It takes 60 to break, not 41 to block. Recursion Mar 2014 #73

Well ... but we did have total control of the House and Senate for 2 years ... damn it!! JoePhilly Mar 2014 #74

nothing matters to some steve2470 Mar 2014 #148

Kicking from North Carolina, a state being destroyed... WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #24

They should ProSense Mar 2014 #28

They didn't in 2010 and 2012, and here we are. WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #33

Hagan is fighting, and she has a slight lead in the polls. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #36

1) "Hagan is fighting" -- thanks for stating the obvious, WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #41

Did you know you're making Rahm Emmanuel's argument? Recursion Mar 2014 #26

Rahm's argument was not that we should strive for something worth the backlash but that Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #31

At this point, ProSense Mar 2014 #32

How does that relate to my point that the OP is not making the same argument as Rahm? Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #37

If you can't see that, I can help you. ProSense Mar 2014 #43

Actually, BNW assessed my point exactly. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #48

Then please fill in the blank that's left Recursion Mar 2014 #54

Okay, I'm wrong. This is the besest healthcare policy EVAH! and only a fool would argue against it! Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #58

Please answer the question Recursion Mar 2014 #61

"ACA is not remotely the best plan, or even a terribly good one." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #67

Answers ProSense Mar 2014 #71

Do you live in Washington state or Colorado? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #78

I take it you're weren't interested in answers? ProSense Mar 2014 #79

Answers? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #85

They proposed tons else Recursion Mar 2014 #72

In other words Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #75

Well, they did take a lot of votes in the committee Recursion Mar 2014 #77

What I am arguing is Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #82

So, again, you're making Rahm's argument Recursion Mar 2014 #88

Focusing on the 'mistake', as you put it, accomplishes nothing. randome Mar 2014 #98

What's something more progressive that would have kept enough D votes to pass? Recursion Mar 2014 #52

How would you implement Single Payer? CJCRANE Mar 2014 #30

How will we implement ACA? Many Republican States sued to 'opt out'. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #35

But it is being implemented and is helping millions of people. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #38

So the goal was to get some State's residents covered but not others? Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #44

My point is about the feasbility of Single Payer. How do you get from Point A to Point Z? CJCRANE Mar 2014 #50

Those lawsuits ProSense Mar 2014 #40

21 States have refused to consider Medicaid expansion. 27 have expanded it. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #49

Those decisions are not the result of the law, and people ProSense Mar 2014 #55

As it is, the ACA passed by the skin of its teeth. Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #39

Yes, this is correct.. by 2 votes..217 to 215..I recall (look it up) Stuart G Mar 2014 #117

I too would have liked to see the single payer option, it did not happen, they passed the GOP option Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #42

And there is No Sale for: We coulda had it but Obama blocked it on purpose Whisp Mar 2014 #46

Single Payer was not possible as many Democratic Senators were philosophically against it karynnj Mar 2014 #47

Shumlin: 'Don't Quit' On Single Payer Before Work Begins ProSense Mar 2014 #56

Let me know when you check back in to reality. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #62

Yes, this is correct...We couldn't have gotten single payer. Stuart G Mar 2014 #147

Some on DU are willfully ignorant, politically naive, obtuse and/or trolls steve2470 Mar 2014 #149

Strange that with a Dem WH, House, Senate, we got a Republican health insurance plan Doctor_J Mar 2014 #65

That simply ProSense Mar 2014 #68

ACA fan club member Paul Krugman disagrees Doctor_J Mar 2014 #94

No, ProSense Mar 2014 #100

You were very close Doctor_J Mar 2014 #132

That is ProSense Mar 2014 #133

By "strategic argument" do you mean that Obama was deliberately lying? Jim Lane Mar 2014 #159

Ummmmm...... so why have the Republicans voted to end it 50+ times? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #95

You might try reading instead of a knee-jerk defense of president Reagan/Obama Doctor_J Mar 2014 #121

But the conservadems would never pass it! BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #96

yeah, there's a little cognitive dissonance Doctor_J Mar 2014 #125

Hater! BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #128

Explain how you get Lieberman's vote for something more liberal. jeff47 Mar 2014 #131

This "argument" doesn't get voters to the polls Doctor_J Mar 2014 #156

Yet you didn't quite answer the question, did you? jeff47 Mar 2014 #160

K&R woo me with science Mar 2014 #70

It doesn't matter now Politicub Mar 2014 #76

oh good grief ellennelle Mar 2014 #80

I have to thank him/her, though wryter2000 Mar 2014 #99

The reason single payer insurance didnt happen and will neever happen is INdemo Mar 2014 #86

BENGHAZI sunnystarr Mar 2014 #87

The last I heard health care is one seventh of our economy. rrneck Mar 2014 #90

also difficult when the psychopaths who own that 7% also own the government Doctor_J Mar 2014 #119

True that. nt rrneck Mar 2014 #120

"abomination of a law that has pissed off more people than it has helped" - Bullshit. NYC Liberal Mar 2014 #93

Yup. "100 million Americans who’ve gained..." ProSense Mar 2014 #104

It's a good thing FDR didn't demand all or nothing on Social Security, NYC Liberal Mar 2014 #115

I keep looking for an endgame in these type of posts. randome Mar 2014 #101

Then you are in denial. jazzimov Mar 2014 #105

The silver lining is that we'll win the long game Babel_17 Mar 2014 #108

Why didn't Roosevelt pass universal healthcare? OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #109

Whoa. Facts and history. Good combination. randome Mar 2014 #116

I didn't include an answer, BTW. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #129

Did we have ANY campaign finance laws back then? randome Mar 2014 #136

Yes. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #137

awesome post ! nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #146

Not even TRYING for single payer was a mistake. Laelth Mar 2014 #113

Whoa! What a post! You must live in my ballyhoo Mar 2014 #118

If the Dems had really wanted some progress on HC, at the very least Medicare would have begun at 60 Doctor_J Mar 2014 #123

Lieberman explicitly rejected the Medicare buy-in. jeff47 Mar 2014 #126

So Bernie Sanders is a liar? jeff47 Mar 2014 #124

There was one thing standing in our way, which maybe you've failed to account for: kenny blankenship Mar 2014 #127

No way this Congress would have taken on the risk of single payer, I'm not even sure Public Option Hoyt Mar 2014 #135

Statement by Conyers and Kucinich: ProSense Mar 2014 #138

According to your profile, you were not on this site back in the Summer of 2009 truedelphi Mar 2014 #152

kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #155

In your dreams donheld Mar 2014 #157