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steve2470

(37,461 posts)

149. Some on DU are willfully ignorant, politically naive, obtuse and/or trolls

Sat Mar 29, 2014, 04:13 PM

Mar 2014

Would I have loved single payer ? Yes. However, we don't live in Sweden. We live in the USA, where you have people who deny evolution and think the ACA is TEH COMMUNISM ! It's great to be idealistic, but it needs to be tempered with realism and pragmatism.

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Sorry, but I don't buy the "But we couldn't have gotten single-payer" defense [View all] Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 OP

Sanders: Single Payer Never Had A Chance ProSense Mar 2014 #1

With all due respect to the esteemed Mr. Sanders -- Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #12

"So"? ProSense Mar 2014 #18

Accurate Summation DevineBovine Mar 2014 #92

Pfft.. what does Sen Sanders know? Cha Mar 2014 #13

yea, what does he know ? steve2470 Mar 2014 #140

He was only Cha Mar 2014 #143

I think Bernie would have spoken his mind, if we could have gotten it steve2470 Mar 2014 #144

Oh yeah.. that's what I'm sayin'.. Cha Mar 2014 #145

Not only that... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #59

People need to push for more. I mean, ProSense Mar 2014 #66

I agree people need to push for more... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #81

Well, ProSense Mar 2014 #83

There was no "debate about links"... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #89

I understood ProSense Mar 2014 #97

I am objecting... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #102

They most ProSense Mar 2014 #110

ACA did accomplish some of those same things thesquanderer Mar 2014 #112

ACA began moving in that direction... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #122

Maybe but I do believe they could have got a Medicare buy in if they had tried, they didn't ebbie15644 Mar 2014 #91

Of course, the public option did. grahamhgreen Mar 2014 #158

We can do anything we want, that's what democracy is all about. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #2

However, we need more than 10 Senators to pass it karynnj Mar 2014 #51

That's just the way things are now, we can change that too. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #53

Too many conservative Dems remain in the party to push for any meaningful progressive reform. nt NorthCarolina Mar 2014 #134

Right, we haven't changed it yet. nt bemildred Mar 2014 #141

At least three of the people I love most in this world have "pre-existing" conditions, so ... dawg Mar 2014 #3

Is it just a sad coincidence that insurance has jacked-up the cost of healthcare to the point Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #9

Sadly, I have resigned myself to the fact that the corporatists are in power and aren't letting go. dawg Mar 2014 #17

Could have would have should of awake Mar 2014 #4

You weren't there so you don't know. randome Mar 2014 #5

I never assigned motive, I noted observable facts. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #10

'Observable facts' without attention to circumstances give a one-sided story. randome Mar 2014 #15

Okay. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #20

I sure as hell don't have all the answers. randome Mar 2014 #23

Actually you stated an opinion mythology Mar 2014 #154

I think the President was well intentioned, but I also think he has bought into much of the ... dawg Mar 2014 #22

Maybe. Hard to say sometimes. At least for me it is. randome Mar 2014 #29

well, the ACA WAS the republican plan at one time, remember? CTyankee Mar 2014 #45

Obama has said as much BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #69

How can we have Single Payer, when they throw people in jail for advocating for the Public Option? RC Mar 2014 #6

It was not advocating for single payer, but repeatedly disrupting a Senate hearing karynnj Mar 2014 #57

They were refused speaking time, when they went through the proper channels. RC Mar 2014 #139

There was NO entitlement for them to have speaking time at a committee hearing karynnj Mar 2014 #150

In other words the process was a stacked deck from the get-go. RC Mar 2014 #151

Did you think it a random process? karynnj Mar 2014 #153

On another point, ProSense Mar 2014 #7

I would change the words Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2014 #8

Has anyone actually defined "single payer"... TreasonousBastard Mar 2014 #11

Skimming 15% off the top for insurance companies doesn't feel like a solution think Mar 2014 #25

Medicare and Medicaid are in fact single payer. The VA is pure Socialized Medicine. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #27

Because even the Democrats were not going to allow it treestar Mar 2014 #14

True. That includes people who are on Hobby Lobby's side. kcr Mar 2014 #34

It's pretty simple. Conservative Dems wouldn't have voted for single payer. End of argument. DanTex Mar 2014 #16

I know wouldn't cause I asked him. Cha Mar 2014 #21

Historically that's a piss-poor way to legislate... ljm2002 Mar 2014 #84

I completely agree that single payer should have been part of the discussion. DanTex Mar 2014 #103

I agree 100% with everything you say in this post! +10000 n/t ljm2002 Mar 2014 #107

Then there would be no ACA... Drunken Irishman Mar 2014 #111

Well, that's the question. I don't know if that's true. DanTex Mar 2014 #114

I think Obama knew he was operating under a small window... Drunken Irishman Mar 2014 #130

+1. historylovr Mar 2014 #106

nailed it nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #142

Let's test your argument more directly. I'll spot you every bluedog Senator ... JoePhilly Mar 2014 #19

Easy. Disable him. Make him irrelevant. Timez Squarez Mar 2014 #60

Francis Walsingham? Is that you? Recursion Mar 2014 #63

Nope ... he had to actually vote. JoePhilly Mar 2014 #64

Yeah. It takes 60 to break, not 41 to block. Recursion Mar 2014 #73

Well ... but we did have total control of the House and Senate for 2 years ... damn it!! JoePhilly Mar 2014 #74

nothing matters to some steve2470 Mar 2014 #148

Kicking from North Carolina, a state being destroyed... WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #24

They should ProSense Mar 2014 #28

They didn't in 2010 and 2012, and here we are. WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #33

Hagan is fighting, and she has a slight lead in the polls. n/t ProSense Mar 2014 #36

1) "Hagan is fighting" -- thanks for stating the obvious, WorseBeforeBetter Mar 2014 #41

Did you know you're making Rahm Emmanuel's argument? Recursion Mar 2014 #26

Rahm's argument was not that we should strive for something worth the backlash but that Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #31

At this point, ProSense Mar 2014 #32

How does that relate to my point that the OP is not making the same argument as Rahm? Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #37

If you can't see that, I can help you. ProSense Mar 2014 #43

Actually, BNW assessed my point exactly. Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #48

Then please fill in the blank that's left Recursion Mar 2014 #54

Okay, I'm wrong. This is the besest healthcare policy EVAH! and only a fool would argue against it! Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #58

Please answer the question Recursion Mar 2014 #61

"ACA is not remotely the best plan, or even a terribly good one." Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #67

Answers ProSense Mar 2014 #71

Do you live in Washington state or Colorado? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #78

I take it you're weren't interested in answers? ProSense Mar 2014 #79

Answers? Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #85

They proposed tons else Recursion Mar 2014 #72

In other words Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #75

Well, they did take a lot of votes in the committee Recursion Mar 2014 #77

What I am arguing is Nuclear Unicorn Mar 2014 #82

So, again, you're making Rahm's argument Recursion Mar 2014 #88

Focusing on the 'mistake', as you put it, accomplishes nothing. randome Mar 2014 #98

What's something more progressive that would have kept enough D votes to pass? Recursion Mar 2014 #52

How would you implement Single Payer? CJCRANE Mar 2014 #30

How will we implement ACA? Many Republican States sued to 'opt out'. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #35

But it is being implemented and is helping millions of people. CJCRANE Mar 2014 #38

So the goal was to get some State's residents covered but not others? Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #44

My point is about the feasbility of Single Payer. How do you get from Point A to Point Z? CJCRANE Mar 2014 #50

Those lawsuits ProSense Mar 2014 #40

21 States have refused to consider Medicaid expansion. 27 have expanded it. Bluenorthwest Mar 2014 #49

Those decisions are not the result of the law, and people ProSense Mar 2014 #55

As it is, the ACA passed by the skin of its teeth. Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #39

Yes, this is correct.. by 2 votes..217 to 215..I recall (look it up) Stuart G Mar 2014 #117

I too would have liked to see the single payer option, it did not happen, they passed the GOP option Thinkingabout Mar 2014 #42

And there is No Sale for: We coulda had it but Obama blocked it on purpose Whisp Mar 2014 #46

Single Payer was not possible as many Democratic Senators were philosophically against it karynnj Mar 2014 #47

Shumlin: 'Don't Quit' On Single Payer Before Work Begins ProSense Mar 2014 #56

Let me know when you check back in to reality. Ms. Toad Mar 2014 #62

Yes, this is correct...We couldn't have gotten single payer. Stuart G Mar 2014 #147

Some on DU are willfully ignorant, politically naive, obtuse and/or trolls steve2470 Mar 2014 #149

Strange that with a Dem WH, House, Senate, we got a Republican health insurance plan Doctor_J Mar 2014 #65

That simply ProSense Mar 2014 #68

ACA fan club member Paul Krugman disagrees Doctor_J Mar 2014 #94

No, ProSense Mar 2014 #100

You were very close Doctor_J Mar 2014 #132

That is ProSense Mar 2014 #133

By "strategic argument" do you mean that Obama was deliberately lying? Jim Lane Mar 2014 #159

Ummmmm...... so why have the Republicans voted to end it 50+ times? (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2014 #95

You might try reading instead of a knee-jerk defense of president Reagan/Obama Doctor_J Mar 2014 #121

But the conservadems would never pass it! BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #96

yeah, there's a little cognitive dissonance Doctor_J Mar 2014 #125

Hater! BrotherIvan Mar 2014 #128

Explain how you get Lieberman's vote for something more liberal. jeff47 Mar 2014 #131

This "argument" doesn't get voters to the polls Doctor_J Mar 2014 #156

Yet you didn't quite answer the question, did you? jeff47 Mar 2014 #160

K&R woo me with science Mar 2014 #70

It doesn't matter now Politicub Mar 2014 #76

oh good grief ellennelle Mar 2014 #80

I have to thank him/her, though wryter2000 Mar 2014 #99

The reason single payer insurance didnt happen and will neever happen is INdemo Mar 2014 #86

BENGHAZI sunnystarr Mar 2014 #87

The last I heard health care is one seventh of our economy. rrneck Mar 2014 #90

also difficult when the psychopaths who own that 7% also own the government Doctor_J Mar 2014 #119

True that. nt rrneck Mar 2014 #120

"abomination of a law that has pissed off more people than it has helped" - Bullshit. NYC Liberal Mar 2014 #93

Yup. "100 million Americans who’ve gained..." ProSense Mar 2014 #104

It's a good thing FDR didn't demand all or nothing on Social Security, NYC Liberal Mar 2014 #115

I keep looking for an endgame in these type of posts. randome Mar 2014 #101

Then you are in denial. jazzimov Mar 2014 #105

The silver lining is that we'll win the long game Babel_17 Mar 2014 #108

Why didn't Roosevelt pass universal healthcare? OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #109

Whoa. Facts and history. Good combination. randome Mar 2014 #116

I didn't include an answer, BTW. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #129

Did we have ANY campaign finance laws back then? randome Mar 2014 #136

Yes. OilemFirchen Mar 2014 #137

awesome post ! nt steve2470 Mar 2014 #146

Not even TRYING for single payer was a mistake. Laelth Mar 2014 #113

Whoa! What a post! You must live in my ballyhoo Mar 2014 #118

If the Dems had really wanted some progress on HC, at the very least Medicare would have begun at 60 Doctor_J Mar 2014 #123

Lieberman explicitly rejected the Medicare buy-in. jeff47 Mar 2014 #126

So Bernie Sanders is a liar? jeff47 Mar 2014 #124

There was one thing standing in our way, which maybe you've failed to account for: kenny blankenship Mar 2014 #127

No way this Congress would have taken on the risk of single payer, I'm not even sure Public Option Hoyt Mar 2014 #135

Statement by Conyers and Kucinich: ProSense Mar 2014 #138

According to your profile, you were not on this site back in the Summer of 2009 truedelphi Mar 2014 #152

kick woo me with science Mar 2014 #155

In your dreams donheld Mar 2014 #157