General Discussion

Donald Ian Rankin

(13,598 posts)

19. I think they should have legal protections, but that's not quite the same thing as rights.

Wed Apr 9, 2014, 05:54 PM

Apr 2014

I'm not sure what you mean by "sentient".

If we discovered a species of animal as *intelligent* as we are then yes, it should have the same rights as humans, but there are no such animals within several light years, if anywhere.

I can't articulate the distinction between "legal protections" and "rights" at this time of night - I may be wrong about there being one - but I think it has something to do with the fact that with animals "the greater good" trumps "the rights of the individual", whereas with humans it's the reverse - culling a population of animals to ensure an ecosystem remains healthy is a good thing; killing a human and using their organs for transplants to save two lives is a bad one.

Added on edit: to partially answer the bit about less intelligent humans: one of the most important rights is the right to make your own choices; I, and I think almost everyone else, think that children and the severely mentally handicapped should not have that right.

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Anyone else find equating pets and animals with humans to be rather strange? [View all] quinnox Apr 2014 OP

Depends on which human is drowning. Child yes, Limbaugh no. JaneyVee Apr 2014 #1

Yes Go Vols Apr 2014 #2

Some religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Taoism CJCRANE Apr 2014 #3

Humans are merely one species of animal among many. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #7

Yeah, but then PETA also protested Manhattan's attempt to get rid of rats. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #4

Depends on the type of pet and whether it was mine. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #5

You'd save one of your pets in preference to drowning child? Really? Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #13

As far as I'm concerned Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #15

You do know that you're objectively wrong, don't you? Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #16

Shrug. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #21

Mind-centrism, not human-centrism. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #22

That's a matter of choosing your defining line. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #26

How do you feel about our policy of droning human beings, then? sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #76

LOL AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #117

And who couldn't have predicted your non-response? ronnie624 Apr 2014 #133

Post removed Post removed Apr 2014 #136

Excellent point, Sabrina. closeupready Apr 2014 #174

That standard is entirely arbitrary. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #90

you do know that is what we all do? hfojvt Apr 2014 #74

Objectively? Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #86

You equate all people on the same level but not avebury Apr 2014 #87

Lots of education it appears HangOnKids Apr 2014 #25

I never will. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #27

But you call your dogs your children HangOnKids Apr 2014 #33

It is very stupid to denigrate another person tabasco Apr 2014 #81

Judgmental nonsense. Feral Child Apr 2014 #146

Most pet owners OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #148

"Most pet owners consider their pets like their children" Orrex Apr 2014 #151

Ok smarty OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #154

Your framing is incorrect. Orrex Apr 2014 #157

Whatever OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #163

That framing is also incorrect Orrex Apr 2014 #164

Not supported to your mind OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #166

See, that sounds entirely reasonable to me Orrex Apr 2014 #167

Hair trigger? Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #192

That once again assumes the conclusion Orrex Apr 2014 #208

You're addressing a different issue there. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #211

important is an individually chosen decision. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #196

My parents referred to their dog Axel as my brother. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #187

I admit that "Axel Ploodaxe BSN" does sound pretty cool. Orrex Apr 2014 #190

Lots of assumptions in your post HangOnKids Apr 2014 #168

Doesn't matter OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #170

Maybe that should have been your response to my post HangOnKids Apr 2014 #173

Well to be honest OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #175

Hey Cats Are Cool HangOnKids Apr 2014 #177

And there aren't too many dogs? joeglow3 Apr 2014 #155

If I ever wanted to take personal responsibility for another human Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #191

Does a child rank higher than adult in your moral code? krawhitham Apr 2014 #103

Sort of Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #132

Foster Child? 4Q2u2 Apr 2014 #181

I'm not sure that was nested under mine Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #194

I was never taught that people are above animals….so, NO. Tikki Apr 2014 #6

I think about that sometimes - I honestly don't know which I would choose petronius Apr 2014 #8

Most cats are excellent swimmers. Aerows Apr 2014 #37

I love my cat to pieces qazplm Apr 2014 #64

I'd almost certainly do just the opposite. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #89

I'm with you. nt oldhippie Apr 2014 #94

I am just the opposite FrodosPet Apr 2014 #109

I respect that. A lot. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #128

what about a furry? snooper2 Apr 2014 #162

That center one is one damn fine outfit. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #197

Do you think sentient animals have no rights? Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #9

I tend to think cetaceans already should have more rights Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #18

And that law is part of the gradual recognition that "rights" are not exclusive to humans. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #54

I think they should have legal protections, but that's not quite the same thing as rights. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #19

Are you sure about this: Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #58

Dolphins can recognize themselves in a mirror. n/t truth2power Apr 2014 #99

I assume what some mean AcertainLiz Apr 2014 #101

The difference between human and animal intelligence is massive and qualitative. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #131

Well there was Alex the Parrot who made jokes, played word games Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #147

Not sure what you mean by rights quinnox Apr 2014 #30

Animals do have rights. Warren Stupidity Apr 2014 #53

I agree animals should not be subject to cruelty. But to me, that is just practicing good morals quinnox Apr 2014 #56

I dont believe a cow is sentient qazplm Apr 2014 #67

You can thank Aristotle for that thinking nadinbrzezinski Apr 2014 #10

I see nobody suggesting disrespecting our pets pipoman Apr 2014 #115

Yes.. butterfly77 Apr 2014 #11

We are all "animals" and it sure the hell isn't non-human species destroying the planet... hlthe2b Apr 2014 #12

I hope you're a better person than you think you are. Donald Ian Rankin Apr 2014 #20

+1,000,000 (nt) Nine Apr 2014 #61

How silly to say that. None of us knows with any certainty that we would "step in" AT ALL... hlthe2b Apr 2014 #98

we aren't "destroying" the planet qazplm Apr 2014 #68

rosy glasses you got there G_j Apr 2014 #71

LOL. tabasco Apr 2014 #82

Ahh, another climate change denier responding to the "dog" whistle (pun intended) hlthe2b Apr 2014 #97

I actually don't think he is. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #198

and THAT is not destroying the earth as YOU know it? Really? Reallly? REALLY?????! hlthe2b Apr 2014 #213

I have both a BS and PhD in geology. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #222

What lack of regard for your children & hlthe2b Apr 2014 #223

What does regard for children and grandchildren have to do ... oldhippie Apr 2014 #224

I'm not a breeder. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #226

Nor am I, but I don't find it difficult to give a damn about the future of those who come after me. hlthe2b Apr 2014 #231

Neither do I. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #232

exactly qazplm Apr 2014 #229

please point me to the climate change denial qazplm Apr 2014 #230

To quote Red Leader AnalystInParadise Apr 2014 #118

Who would Fido save ... GeorgeGist Apr 2014 #14

fido would save whoever is feeding it. end of story nt msongs Apr 2014 #35

I love my pets. I truly do, but I can assure you newcriminal Apr 2014 #17

You would save Rush Limpballs Politicalboi Apr 2014 #23

Yes I'm afraid I would. newcriminal Apr 2014 #28

What is the rest of the list? FrodosPet Apr 2014 #110

that is how I see it quinnox Apr 2014 #32

Humans do not have instincts, our behavior is learned. phil89 Apr 2014 #41

"Humans do not have instincts" ??? What? We so do. EX500rider Apr 2014 #116

Utter nonsense pipoman Apr 2014 #119

I agree with this. Some dark opnions, here... Eleanors38 Apr 2014 #40

I have to go with saving the human over the pet. n/t cherokeeprogressive Apr 2014 #63

This message was self-deleted by its author TlalocW Apr 2014 #24

We are all sentient beings WhiteTara Apr 2014 #29

Humans are animals The2ndWheel Apr 2014 #31

When it comes to saving a child or an animal I would save the child EXCEPT angstlessk Apr 2014 #34

You couldnt be more wrong. darkangel218 Apr 2014 #36

Humans demise is that they "think they are above animals and nature" and it is that "separation or glinda Apr 2014 #124

Yes, because all animals are perfect and Humans are not. 4Q2u2 Apr 2014 #180

I wouldn't say 'animals are perfect' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #200

Of course not..pets are far superior... joeybee12 Apr 2014 #38

Hmm CFLDem Apr 2014 #39

Not all humans are above our pets. michaz Apr 2014 #42

No.. Upton Apr 2014 #43

It's clear that the OP has never had any sort of companion animal... Blue_Tires Apr 2014 #44

Some of the very nicest people I know... 99Forever Apr 2014 #45

Agreed. Great post. n/t RebelOne Apr 2014 #46

well, damn quinnox Apr 2014 #48

I have never met any Go Vols Apr 2014 #57

That's sad. n/t 99Forever Apr 2014 #72

Yes it is Go Vols Apr 2014 #114

Might I suggest you check into the concept of... 99Forever Apr 2014 #221

Just being absolutely honest. 99Forever Apr 2014 #69

I'm sorry about Nakita Beaverhausen Apr 2014 #120

I lost my dog in early February so I'm so sorry for what yr going through... Violet_Crumble Apr 2014 #137

Sorry 99Forever. glinda Apr 2014 #161

+1000 K&R nt avebury Apr 2014 #83

Well put n/t Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #138

This is so much bullshit CrawlingChaos Apr 2014 #47

Look, I disagree with you. And I can do that with a good conscience quinnox Apr 2014 #49

+1 Nicely said. KurtNYC Apr 2014 #95

Totally agree OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #150

Might not be goofy, but it's argument by assertion Orrex Apr 2014 #152

He minimized animal treatment and compassion? 4Q2u2 Apr 2014 #179

Nope. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2014 #50

understandable... uriel1972 Apr 2014 #51

No. 2naSalit Apr 2014 #52

Thing is, Fido might be drowning because he was attempting to save that child in the first place... haele Apr 2014 #55

Thanks for that detailed and lengthy answer quinnox Apr 2014 #60

The problem is that animals are thought of as property. undeterred Apr 2014 #59

I heard a punk rocker... yallerdawg Apr 2014 #62

Welcome to DU yallerdawg panader0 Apr 2014 #65

Thank you for the welcome yallerdawg Apr 2014 #75

No. truebluegreen Apr 2014 #66

I think that we flatter humans by equating them with pets and animals... Tom Ripley Apr 2014 #70

It depends. Vattel Apr 2014 #73

No, because we humans humanize almost everything in our world. Agnosticsherbet Apr 2014 #77

I am inclined to save the human animal over another species. bravenak Apr 2014 #78

No. I think your viewpoint is quite stupid. tabasco Apr 2014 #79

Priceless as you posted this as a reply to me HangOnKids Apr 2014 #172

I actually think a lot higher of animals then I do people. avebury Apr 2014 #80

No. femmocrat Apr 2014 #84

I'd save my cat before almost every human on the planet. Lizzie Poppet Apr 2014 #85

Exactly! PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #113

It's on a case-by-case basis for me. nt frogmarch Apr 2014 #88

What I find rather strange MelungeonWoman Apr 2014 #91

Yes. sagat Apr 2014 #92

any one that has a pet MFM008 Apr 2014 #93

There are people on DU right now who campaign to put my dog to death for the way she looks. baldguy Apr 2014 #96

What I find strange is putting pets and animals above humans. nt kelliekat44 Apr 2014 #100

This thread is giving me the major creeps. Nine Apr 2014 #102

Yep DashOneBravo Apr 2014 #105

A-FUCKING-MEN joeglow3 Apr 2014 #156

Humans are animals. nt LeftyMom Apr 2014 #104

Humans appear to be aliens to me. glinda Apr 2014 #125

posts like this are part of the reason why i'd save my drowning cat over most people. dionysus Apr 2014 #106

So the drowning situation doesn't work as a thought experiment but... politicat Apr 2014 #107

Everything you said is based in ego. flvegan Apr 2014 #108

Okay, let's go with "strange." Iggo Apr 2014 #111

Dog first.... PasadenaTrudy Apr 2014 #112

+1 glinda Apr 2014 #126

That's just warped... Violet_Crumble Apr 2014 #135

I have pictures on my desk Nevernose Apr 2014 #121

I like my pets better than most humans. PeteSelman Apr 2014 #122

There was a story recently where guy's boat was sinking. LisaL Apr 2014 #123

I figure that if any situation like that were to ACTUALLY happen, kentauros Apr 2014 #127

I'd hate to think the way you think. Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #129

It is interesting that the OP... deathrind Apr 2014 #130

I have more loyalty to humans than to the other animals, ZombieHorde Apr 2014 #134

I don't understand people who say "dog first" but eat factory farmed pigs mucifer Apr 2014 #139

Factory farming is illegal here Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #141

curious, where is "here"? It needs to be everywhere. mucifer Apr 2014 #142

Sorry, "here" is the UK Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #143

I can't imagine the USA stopping factory farming. mucifer Apr 2014 #144

There's more good ready-made vegan and vegetarian food available. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #203

Bullshit false dilemma Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #140

There is no restriction against posing a hypothetical with only two options. Orrex Apr 2014 #149

I honestly don't know Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #159

I find the hypothetical to be too unrealistic to create such a choice in my head... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #189

The particular mode of certain death isn't central Orrex Apr 2014 #193

The problem is that, in real life, there is no way to figure out if death is 100% certain... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #195

It needn't be a mathematical certainty Orrex Apr 2014 #202

I can't remove my own assumptions from it... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #206

When you're given a math problem, are you only able to solve it in terms of tangible objects? Orrex Apr 2014 #209

The assumptions I'm talking about are things such as "a dog is much better at swimming than a child" Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #212

Well... Orrex Apr 2014 #214

But if it is set aside, then I don't find the thought experiment useful... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #219

But you've already answered the question (correctly, IMO) Orrex Apr 2014 #220

People chose to answer it. Nine Apr 2014 #153

Biologically speaking, we are geared to save what's genetically closer. RedCappedBandit Apr 2014 #145

The genetic difference is pretty minute. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Apr 2014 #205

My dog would rescue the 'drowning' human, child or adult. Doubt I'd notice a drowning child. Sunlei Apr 2014 #158

Jesus, I didn't know that either Prophet 451 Apr 2014 #160

Misanthropy sucks. n/t lumberjack_jeff Apr 2014 #165

That it do. (n/t) Iggo Apr 2014 #201

Marmite Rescue Octafish Apr 2014 #169

Strange as hell MO_Moderate Apr 2014 #171

Yes, it is strange to me, and I'll never do it (with a few closeupready Apr 2014 #176

as a biologist, I disagree with you.... mike_c Apr 2014 #178

To add to that, IDemo Apr 2014 #182

excellent point. liberal_at_heart Apr 2014 #227

No, I don't. NaturalHigh Apr 2014 #183

As it causes no absolute or collective problems vis-a-vis western mores LanternWaste Apr 2014 #184

love is selfish and not a rational/hierarchical emotion La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2014 #185

False dichotomy, unless there is something seriously wrong with your dog... Humanist_Activist Apr 2014 #186

No. And Having That View and Equating With PETA Isn't A Logical Conclusion ProfessorGAC Apr 2014 #188

I used to think that humans were the most advanced life form on the planet... jmondine Apr 2014 #199

Humanity is about to shit in it's nest to the point it will no longer support us, CrispyQ Apr 2014 #204

^ This. nt justiceischeap Apr 2014 #207

Your asking the wrong question. It's more a matter of love. Glassunion Apr 2014 #210

well responsible parents are not expected to have their male children neutered Douglas Carpenter Apr 2014 #215

um, no. why is it a contest? people who are very anti-animal rights have some serious personality TheFrenchRazor Apr 2014 #216

The one absolutely unselfish friend that man can have in this selfish world, Douglas Carpenter Apr 2014 #217

nope, not strange at all. n/t Scout Apr 2014 #218

no. My husband's guide dog saved his life. I'd say he was probably better than some humans. liberal_at_heart Apr 2014 #225

Anyone else find this question just an attempt to bait people into bashing PETA? pragmatic_dem Apr 2014 #228

Another possibility yallerdawg Apr 2014 #233

Is PETA asking or expecting Shankapotomus Apr 2014 #234

I hate to break it to some people, but humans as a whole... Shandris Apr 2014 #235