General Discussion

Hippo_Tron

(25,453 posts)

347. Security Council Resolution 1441 did not authorize the use of force

Sat Apr 12, 2014, 07:22 PM

Apr 2014

The two conditions following the TO are...

1) Defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq ; and

2) Enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq .

There's nothing that says both conditions have to be met. The President determined that Iraq was a national security threat to the United States, so we went to war. There is no such thing as a presidential finding being impossible. Presidential finding means that the president can find whatever the hell he wants to find once congress delegates him that authority. If they wanted to be able to review his finding to determine for themselves that Iraq was a threat upon the time of a potential invasion before giving him the green light, they should've said so.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

356 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

I'm sorry, guys. I can't get past her vote for the Iraq "war". [View all] elehhhhna Apr 2014 OP

She likes war. That is your answer. n-t Logical Apr 2014 #1

. Cooley Hurd Apr 2014 #2

I am assuming you are referring to the Secretary Hillary Clinton yeoman6987 Apr 2014 #3

A mistake is something that happens by accident. PassingFair Apr 2014 #303

She won't get my vote either--for that reason and others. Raksha Apr 2014 #354

Does that mean that you also think John Kerry can not be DURHAM D Apr 2014 #4

Secretaries of state aren't elected Scootaloo Apr 2014 #15

He is leading the effort to DURHAM D Apr 2014 #19

both KErry and Clinton are well liked in the international community JI7 Apr 2014 #21

Yes, I know. DURHAM D Apr 2014 #22

Vice Presidents are. Biden voted for the IWR too. n/t hughee99 Apr 2014 #200

Goddamn you guys keep doing this... WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #302

The question in the next primary may be a DEM who voted for the IWR vs hughee99 Apr 2014 #333

Funny you bring him up.... peace13 Apr 2014 #168

from what I remembered warrior1 Apr 2014 #5

The problem with your explanation Maedhros Apr 2014 #8

That's basically it laundry_queen Apr 2014 #25

and the people in the U.S. where MUCH different in those days.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #29

I'd agree with you if we were talking about Afghanistan laundry_queen Apr 2014 #34

But that is where BUSH took us to....She didn't vote FOR that..... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #39

Oh, c'mon, everyone knew what that vote meant. laundry_queen Apr 2014 #42

No not everyone did....and MOST Americans were convinced Iraq was involved AND had VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #53

Oh many of us remember the 'environment' quite well, which is why we hold those people went along PoliticAverse Apr 2014 #59

So ALL your fellow Americans that DID want revenge? That demanded it.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #140

Yes Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #150

If she didn't know what the vote meant then that's an even more damming. progressoid Apr 2014 #86

^^^^+1000 ^^^^ n/t slipslidingaway Apr 2014 #88

and that goes for you too....IF YOU know so much better.....why don't YOU run? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #143

Oh she KNEW better -- but it wasn't politically expedient for her to stand up and say so. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #297

Oh so they knew that in advance of George Bush going into Iraq.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #298

Where did I say anything about ten years? Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #299

I agree with you that THAT war was an atrocity...BUT Hillary Clinton and other Democrats VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #305

9-11 was NOT given as an official explanation to Congress re: Iraq -- it was the Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #312

The vote gave the President the authority.....that is all.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #141

Iraq attacked us on 9/11? progressoid Apr 2014 #216

did I say that? No I did not.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #292

Ok, let me review. progressoid Apr 2014 #313

EXCUSE ME....I don't need you to tell me WHAT I know... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #321

Are you effing kidding me?! Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #266

and Hindsight is 20/20... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #293

Since you are SOOOO much smarter than our politicians.....why don't YOU run for office VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #142

Why don't you run Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #151

Because I LIKE the Democratic choices..... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #258

That's what I keep telling the Dalai Lama too! progressoid Apr 2014 #217

No it isn't...If you are going to demand better candidates...and YOU HATE VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #260

Who said I HATE the ones we have? Every thing isn't black or white. progressoid Apr 2014 #267

this is beyond critical....this is downright dismissal of one of the most electable VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #308

It's not dismaissal, it's political debate. progressoid Apr 2014 #317

No in this thread she is being summarily dismissed.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #319

I'm not throwing out ALL the Democrats. progressoid Apr 2014 #325

You cannot JUST hold that vote against ONE of them then....that is hypocritical... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #326

I don't. They're all guilty. progressoid Apr 2014 #327

Unfortunately the media didn't do its job .. those that spoke out .. were shamed and > YOHABLO Apr 2014 #137

Then those who have such good instincts.....and are demanding better candidates.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #145

And when they run Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #152

Hahahaha! +1 beerandjesus Apr 2014 #199

And when are YOU running funny man? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #263

No I happen to LIKE the Democrats....is that a problem for you? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #262

So we shouldn't express an opinion unless we are running for office. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #296

No but you should have some alternative plans....that COULD work.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #323

My alternative plan to invading Iraq and shock & aweing Iraqis to death was: Don't invade! Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #339

Total bullshit. PassingFair Apr 2014 #306

uhhhh VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #322

Uhhhhh....what's your point? PassingFair Apr 2014 #330

Well she wanted it in 2008 too krawhitham Apr 2014 #276

Bob Kerrey, Evan Bayh, Lieberman were on the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq deutsey Apr 2014 #158

This is the heart of the matter. Do we want our government to run by and for the benefit of the001% Vincardog Apr 2014 #207

No problem deutsey Apr 2014 #230

i knew it was all BS RedstDem Apr 2014 #24

I knew it was BS too. The first time I heard Bush babble the name "IRAQ" I knew he was pulling GoneFishin Apr 2014 #84

That juicy stuff probably made it much less clear. jeff47 Apr 2014 #112

of course it was - and many many of us knew it - I left the D party within an hour of that shameful DrDan Apr 2014 #147

past President Bill Clinton had access to juicy stuff Whisp Apr 2014 #193

95 percent of us on this site knew it. Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #300

Very Vanilla selective memory. Strange for an "underground" participant and NOT Progressive at ALL. PassingFair Apr 2014 #309

Thank you! Arugula Latte Apr 2014 #310

My pleasure! PassingFair Apr 2014 #316

I dont' think so.. sendero Apr 2014 #48

I was in rapt attention precisely because I was fascinated by the entire ChisolmTrailDem Apr 2014 #50

It's not even a question of "WMD's" Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #75

Zero public evidence. jeff47 Apr 2014 #114

Plenty of people BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #117

Those who were receiving classified briefings did. jeff47 Apr 2014 #122

There is way too much revisionist history on this from those who want to criticize Democrats stevenleser Apr 2014 #176

So why did most Congressional Democrats vote "no"? MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #270

YOU FORGOT POLAND elehhhhna Apr 2014 #284

Poland is separate from the UN Security Council vote. The whole "New Europe" vs "Old Europe" stevenleser Apr 2014 #285

That's a George Bush quote. PassingFair Apr 2014 #311

Probably. I still think what I wrote is correct. nt stevenleser Apr 2014 #328

It's a George Bush quote, and you listed the "Coalition of the Coerced". PassingFair Apr 2014 #331

You aren't making any sense at this point. nt stevenleser Apr 2014 #336

Bob Graham chaired the intelligence committee, he looked at the classified "evidence" and voted no Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #240

Much of the Sen intelligence committee voted Yea, because the evidence was equivocal either way stevenleser Apr 2014 #278

So it's okay to hand absolute war powers over to man hell bent on an invasion... Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #335

They werent absolute in any sense of the word. Limited to Iraq and contingent on conditions that stevenleser Apr 2014 #337

Enlighten me, what conditions demanded by the IWR were not present at the time of the invasion? Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #341

Its in the article I wrote which I linked in my #176 above. nt stevenleser Apr 2014 #342

I read your article, I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how war powers work Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #345

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about the IWR. stevenleser Apr 2014 #346

Security Council Resolution 1441 did not authorize the use of force Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #347

I didnt say 1441 did. And neither condition of IWR was met and demonstrably so. stevenleser Apr 2014 #348

Again, presidential finding means the president can find whatever the hell he wants... Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #349

No matter how many times you repeat incorrect information, it will not make it right. stevenleser Apr 2014 #350

The conditions were not subject to any legislative or judicial review Hippo_Tron Apr 2014 #356

There was plenty of reason not to fall for it. Hissyspit Apr 2014 #62

But Hillary Clinton had just moved out of the White House. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #73

Hillary, Iran, Code Pink and Cookies: Whisp Apr 2014 #194

Thanks but I got a message that the video no longer exists. Thanks again for the information. JDPriestly Apr 2014 #206

not ALL Democrats fell for it hfojvt Apr 2014 #133

I personally dont think Mrs Clinton would be the best candidate darkangel218 Apr 2014 #353

The Democrats knew what Bush was up to. joshcryer Apr 2014 #138

"I guess you have to ask yourself, would you prefer a republican in the WH." Martin Eden Apr 2014 #221

"bush cooked the books and the democrats fell fot it." bvar22 Apr 2014 #222

Anyone who fell for Bush's lies when most sentient people KNEW they were lying, is likely to make sabrina 1 Apr 2014 #290

EVERYONE??!!! Goddamn apologist speak WhaTHellsgoingonhere Apr 2014 #314

I get that, but I am curious how you voted in 2004. cthulu2016 Apr 2014 #6

I waiting for explaining as well. Whisp Apr 2014 #7

She's never apologized or admitted her vote was a mistake. BlueStater Apr 2014 #9

yes she did - she said it was a mistake OKNancy Apr 2014 #237

I look at our state politics in Michigan and I can see why. PassingFair Apr 2014 #315

and your alternative? randys1 Apr 2014 #10

Thus why we have primaries, Dear Randy. Scootaloo Apr 2014 #17

amen. Tuesday Afternoon Apr 2014 #215

Alternative, you say? 99Forever Apr 2014 #20

EVERY ONE of them are extremely risky against Republicans VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #33

Extremely risky against Republicans? BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #97

Yes. YES. 840high Apr 2014 #60

They would never win the election! Auntie Bush Apr 2014 #70

I simply don't agree. 99Forever Apr 2014 #87

Elizabeth will one day be a contender. Adrahil Apr 2014 #156

I met many prognosticators. 99Forever Apr 2014 #244

I'm just giving my honest opinion. Like anyone, I can be wrong. Adrahil Apr 2014 #329

nominating them Niceguy1 Apr 2014 #134

6 Years ago a Junior Senator who also happened to be a SomethingFishy Apr 2014 #172

Exactly. 99Forever Apr 2014 #245

YES! laundry_queen Apr 2014 #318

...who, as people her point out, ran as a mainstream Liberal Democrat brooklynite Apr 2014 #279

I think they were asking for any alternatives the voters... Walk away Apr 2014 #205

I see what you did there. 99Forever Apr 2014 #242

''I dont like her either, she is a rightwing Dem but then so is Obama'' Whisp Apr 2014 #45

Nobody around here is going to vote for a Republican OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #89

Not voting at all is effectively a vote for the Republican. jeff47 Apr 2014 #120

Yeah that was my point at the end OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #123

No, it's not. Not voting, or voting 3rd party, deprives both establishment parties a vote. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #231

-1 D vote has the same effect as +1 R vote. jeff47 Apr 2014 #265

And, - 1 R vote has the same effect in reverse. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #269

If we weren't in a two party system, that would be true. jeff47 Apr 2014 #289

The vast majority of Congressional Democrats voted against the war MannyGoldstein Apr 2014 #11

so why don't you support someone else ? or not vote for her ? JI7 Apr 2014 #12

I can't get over the Sniper Fire story myself Politicalboi Apr 2014 #13

Leider hast du Recht. Jackpine Radical Apr 2014 #14

and she got her daughter talking the same lie. Whisp Apr 2014 #16

This video is a real problem. Raine1967 Apr 2014 #83

Well ...our liars are better than theirs. L0oniX Apr 2014 #189

Hillary is not pure enough Gman Apr 2014 #18

She is not the Savior and hero the Lefty of the Leftiest are looking for.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #35

Or maybe people just have no intention of forgetting that horrible lapse of judgment Hissyspit Apr 2014 #67

They turned on Obama less than 48 hrs Gman Apr 2014 #90

Actually BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #100

That's not an issue of purity. Hissyspit Apr 2014 #64

Hillary Clinton is the only Democratic candidate who could be Texas in play Gothmog Apr 2014 #233

Since I'm in Texas if love to see it Gman Apr 2014 #234

There is nothing to explain. She's just another mask LittleBlue Apr 2014 #23

It's so nice to see..... sendero Apr 2014 #49

Me either. Been there, done that too many times already. Raksha Apr 2014 #355

It is hard I agree but I will vote for her. hrmjustin Apr 2014 #26

Why apologize? Vashta Nerada Apr 2014 #27

Hillary's seemingly corporatist leanings have worried me. idendoit Apr 2014 #28

Either she was playing 3rd Way"pragmatic" politics or too stupid to realize Bush was lying. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #30

too bad you are so self-focused on one vote chillfactor Apr 2014 #31

I wonder sometimes at that "Democrat" part.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2014 #37

I think her 4 years as SOS shows who she is. WhiteTara Apr 2014 #32

For what it's worth... yallerdawg Apr 2014 #36

RE: "did not really mean to authorize war." Maedhros Apr 2014 #44

Regardless of how Hillary voted... yallerdawg Apr 2014 #52

Indeed, there are many reasons. Maedhros Apr 2014 #78

Bush tricked us all yallerdawg Apr 2014 #96

Speak for yourself. Maedhros Apr 2014 #125

I Got Past It otohara Apr 2014 #38

If she is the party nominee, will you vote for her? hack89 Apr 2014 #40

For me the answer is Generic Other Apr 2014 #57

So you will stay at home. Ok. Nt hack89 Apr 2014 #58

Yes. I will stay home Generic Other Apr 2014 #71

Can't be any worse than a tea bagger president, , right? Nt hack89 Apr 2014 #72

Yeah it can be Generic Other Apr 2014 #74

Agreed. It's insidiously divisive too. I think there would be negligible support for NSA spying, GoneFishin Apr 2014 #92

This is an excellent point. nt woo me with science Apr 2014 #220

I'm sure that will be comforting when Medicare goes away. (nt) jeff47 Apr 2014 #104

That threat doesn't seem to go away even under Democrats Generic Other Apr 2014 #165

Then I think you're foolish. Winning elections MATTERS. NT Adrahil Apr 2014 #157

I am foolish? Generic Other Apr 2014 #167

Frankly, yes. Adrahil Apr 2014 #170

Barbara Bush gushes about Bill Clinton, says he treats George H. W. Bush like a father Generic Other Apr 2014 #173

Fuck no! L0oniX Apr 2014 #185

Will you vote or stay at home? nt hack89 Apr 2014 #186

No one is going to force me to vote for a corporatist war hawk from any party. L0oniX Apr 2014 #188

Who mentioned force? Just wondering what you will do with your vote. nt hack89 Apr 2014 #192

Keep wondering. L0oniX Apr 2014 #208

No problem hack89 Apr 2014 #210

I always vote. I vote for the most progressive candidate on the ballot. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2014 #232

So who donco Apr 2014 #41

Her comments about Gaddafi got to me. Octafish Apr 2014 #43

Ah, man! Your CDS is just making you take that out of context shanemcg Apr 2014 #106

It's just common fashion sense. Octafish Apr 2014 #254

Oh, almost forgot the Wikileaks revelations shanemcg Apr 2014 #268

The late Mutassim Billah Gaddafi. Octafish Apr 2014 #277

Yes...Here is the Video of "We Came, We Saw, He Died..... KoKo Apr 2014 #177

that comment was made by a tone deaf Idiot! Whisp Apr 2014 #195

It's like human life didn't matter. Octafish Apr 2014 #255

that's kinda spooky rumdude Apr 2014 #261

I'm sure you will if it's between her and some republican. aikoaiko Apr 2014 #46

Because we suck less. L0oniX Apr 2014 #187

Yes, and sometimes we actually do truly good things. aikoaiko Apr 2014 #190

I can't get past her Walmart work krawhitham Apr 2014 #47

Over 20 years ago when her husband was the Governor OKNancy Apr 2014 #235

"I'm always proud of Wal-Mart and what we do and the way we do it better than anybody else" krawhitham Apr 2014 #275

just saw this... a few errors in that list OKNancy Apr 2014 #283

It's a fool's mission to act as if she is our only alternative to a Republican. PassingFair Apr 2014 #320

never said she voted for THEM I quoted where she voted for CLOTURE krawhitham Apr 2014 #343

if a repub wins the WH, expect war with Iran. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #51

Or Hillary for that matter shanemcg Apr 2014 #108

Yea, not happening. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #144

So, to stand on your principle, you'll never vote for her... brooklynite Apr 2014 #54

Then deal with this Generic Other Apr 2014 #76

And in the real world, a larger number supported her... brooklynite Apr 2014 #77

Well then it won't matter Generic Other Apr 2014 #81

Excellent point. BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #95

In the aggregate, certainly the OPs vote is meaningless as to whether she wins or loses.. brooklynite Apr 2014 #139

Who enables the right now? Generic Other Apr 2014 #162

+1000. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #85

Did you vote for Kerry in 2004? BainsBane Apr 2014 #55

There were a lot of threads about Kerry's vote back then. nt laundry_queen Apr 2014 #169

Wheras lately I've seen threads talking about how admirable he is BainsBane Apr 2014 #211

yeah, lately laundry_queen Apr 2014 #229

I voted for Nader in 2004. beerandjesus Apr 2014 #203

k/r she voted "with conviction" nationalize the fed Apr 2014 #56

Yes, it is hard to overlook that OwnedByCats Apr 2014 #101

That vote should make anyone uncomfortable for her to babysit their kids cpwm17 Apr 2014 #148

the democrats were blackmailed by 9/11 fever. georgee POLITICIZED WAR, pansypoo53219 Apr 2014 #61

Yeah. moondust Apr 2014 #63

I can't either. Anyone who voted for that war 20score Apr 2014 #65

I don't think she wanted war. to me, her crime was believing Bush and Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2014 #66

It's a big problem for me, too. Warren DeMontague Apr 2014 #68

Very good points. GoneFishin Apr 2014 #93

BENGHAZI!!!!!!!! errr, I mean IRAQ WAR!!!!!! jazzimov Apr 2014 #69

Are you seriously trying to conflate objections to votes for the Iraq War Resolution Maedhros Apr 2014 #79

Yes, because there IS NO DIFFERENCE. jazzimov Apr 2014 #246

If you really believe that, then good luck to you. Maedhros Apr 2014 #248

Exactly. not just 'many' members of the UN, 15-0 vote in the Security council on stevenleser Apr 2014 #294

Ignorant comment BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #98

Disgustingly absurd comparison. Shameless. Brainless. Fucking way lame and desperate. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #129

"I am rubber, you are glue!" jazzimov Apr 2014 #247

Nope, you are the one who made the comparison not me. My assessment of said comparison TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #272

I simply hope that she learned from her mistake. Raine1967 Apr 2014 #80

Couple of things: First, a majority of Senate Dems voted for the IWR. And Obama? Skip Intro Apr 2014 #82

Then vote for a different Dem. Iggo Apr 2014 #91

I did a video about her in the heat of the Obama/Clinton primary Oilwellian Apr 2014 #94

I won't vote for her BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #99

I can't either. madaboutharry Apr 2014 #102

I can't get past Aerows Apr 2014 #103

Well. You have 2 and half more years bluestateguy Apr 2014 #105

Simple Question... Jeff In Milwaukee Apr 2014 #107

False dichotomy much, Jeff? 99Forever Apr 2014 #146

False Dichotomy not at all... Jeff In Milwaukee Apr 2014 #161

Nonsense. 99Forever Apr 2014 #163

+1 deutsey Apr 2014 #166

Enjoy the Cruz Administration Jeff In Milwaukee Apr 2014 #197

Golly gee... 99Forever Apr 2014 #243

I don't even know what the hell you're talking about... Jeff In Milwaukee Apr 2014 #280

Just had to get all gutter-mouther and insulting, didn't you Jeff? 99Forever Apr 2014 #281

Thanks for the snark and the homophobia Jeff In Milwaukee Apr 2014 #286

Okay Jeff. 99Forever Apr 2014 #295

Gore would not have invaded Iraq, Bush was hell bent on it. JoePhilly Apr 2014 #225

I can't either, and I won't.... mike_c Apr 2014 #109

Then vote against her in the primary. jeff47 Apr 2014 #110

Ugh BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #113

I am being utterly real. jeff47 Apr 2014 #116

That really depends BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #119

If you bother to read the post you replied to jeff47 Apr 2014 #121

Honestly BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #124

and I am not buying your moralistic implication that if Hillary is the nominee you would not vote lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #130

What? BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #149

It is up to those who are Democrats, and those Democrats to select their candidate for President. lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #178

Nope BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #204

The fact remains it is the repuke sc judges that have given free lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #218

Strawman argument BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #241

We will see about that lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #249

If Democrats have any desire not to have corporate governance and warmongering we wouldn't nominate TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #135

Then go start your own party lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #219

Why do I need to do any such thing. You turd way suicide packers should have started your own party TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #271

back at you bud, I voted for George McGovern in my first election, and have voted for the most lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #274

St. Ronnie himself, Dick Nixon, Barry Goldwater, and even William F. Buckley all compare TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #307

I understand. I haven't reached that stage yet, probably never will, though it does gripe me that lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #334

I wouldn't read much of anything into electing a Democratic Governor at all, it is almost always TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #340

Ok, I guess I am unfortunately delusional lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #351

Not at all. Just optimistic and persistent in hope. That is needed too. TheKentuckian Apr 2014 #352

really, and you think not voting for the Democratic nominee is ok lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #128

I can't get past the surge in Afghanistan. rug Apr 2014 #111

She has no vision BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #115

aaand here comes the rising swill of "voting to allow invasion of Iraq doesn't mean voting to ALLOW MisterP Apr 2014 #118

If Hillary becomes the nominee, and someone.decides that on the IWR lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #126

Worse, I have difficulty believing she wouldn't do it again. nt Union Scribe Apr 2014 #127

It is an "Out, damned spot! out, I say!" sort of situation, isn't it? Kablooie Apr 2014 #131

Well then don't get behind her. It's your choice whom to support The Second Stone Apr 2014 #132

voting for people like Clinton preserves the status quo of giving the 1%ers complete control. politicman Apr 2014 #136

^^^this^^^ L0oniX Apr 2014 #184

Exactly. nt Nay Apr 2014 #201

+1 mike_c Apr 2014 #226

stinky rubbish. Whisp Apr 2014 #264

I can't either. Borchkins Apr 2014 #153

Sherrod Brown JustAnotherGen Apr 2014 #154

Did you support John Kerry in 2004? nt boston bean Apr 2014 #155

I did.. peace13 Apr 2014 #175

Agreed. Puglover Apr 2014 #159

PRESIDENT TED CRUZ THANKS YOU!!!1! Capt. Obvious Apr 2014 #164

Oh geez...shoo. Puglover Apr 2014 #179

That unwise vote cost her the previous election and may well do so again. It display a mindset that ladjf Apr 2014 #160

Does anyone remember when.... peace13 Apr 2014 #171

And she ran a sleazy, dishonest campaign cpwm17 Apr 2014 #198

Then don't vote for her, for chrissakes.... scheming daemons Apr 2014 #174

It is *so rude* when people have "principles". It's just a few million dead! Romulox Apr 2014 #182

Well put. It's pathetic. stevenleser Apr 2014 #196

Actually it's about the hundreds of thousands of people that were killed JoeyT Apr 2014 #212

so i assume this means you will not vote for her no matter what, because i would not vote for JI7 Apr 2014 #239

it's about feeling morally superior without doing anything, just the fact they come on a Democratic JI7 Apr 2014 #238

"innocents being killed and other shit" Boreal Apr 2014 #273

My goodness, but the "centrists" are sputtering on this thread! Romulox Apr 2014 #180

We are not known for being a nation of peace! L0oniX Apr 2014 #181

Guys--we are *known* for killing lots of people. So it's fine. Hillary '16! nt Romulox Apr 2014 #183

She is a politician gvstn Apr 2014 #191

Oh, you're not "sorry" at all. nt MADem Apr 2014 #202

Got past it easily, but everyone is different. You are welcome to feel that way. Xyzse Apr 2014 #209

Drive-by thread. The OP hasn't replied to a single post in her thread...... scheming daemons Apr 2014 #213

Yep that's a sure sign Lex Apr 2014 #214

I can explain it. Torture is A-OK, as is perma-war in "the homeland". Corruption Inc Apr 2014 #223

Well then don't vote for her. tavernier Apr 2014 #224

If all of us thought like you we'd all throw in the towel upaloopa Apr 2014 #227

elehhhhna... NCTraveler Apr 2014 #228

John Edwards was swayed by a humanitarian impulse OKNancy Apr 2014 #236

Then vote for someone else. Beacool Apr 2014 #250

Exactly. I don't know what is with this cathartic garbage that some feel the need to proclaim who lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #251

I don't know what is with this cathartic garbage that some feel the need ... 99Forever Apr 2014 #252

They go on ad nauseam as if she's the devil incarnate. Beacool Apr 2014 #253

Oh come on BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #256

I guess you and your aviator know about doctrinaire lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #259

My aviator? BlindTiresias Apr 2014 #324

Lol, ya got me, I won't correct it lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #332

I am sorry gals but I just can't get past posts like this lostincalifornia Apr 2014 #257

2008 WovenGems Apr 2014 #282

hey, i just read on another thread she is "populist leaning"! m-lekktor Apr 2014 #287

No apology required rock Apr 2014 #288

I can't either Carolina Apr 2014 #291

300 replies later, I will vote for her. Rex Apr 2014 #301

I'll be holding my nose if I have to vote for her in 2016 NobodyHere Apr 2014 #304

Agree Miguel Guate Apr 2014 #338

She likes etablishment behind wars. mylye2222 Apr 2014 #344