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NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)

228. Well, when you do things in secrecy and have no transparency....

Reply to Octafish (Original post)

Mon May 5, 2014, 08:33 AM

May 2014

Conspiracies will happen. For good reason.

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Obama calls critics of TPP secrecy 'Conspiracy Theorists' [View all] Octafish May 2014 OP

Many of them are...nt SidDithers May 2014 #1

You've called me a conspiracy theorist for a long time. Octafish May 2014 #8

Looks like the world is filled with them, no? But then, otoh, we have seen some of what is in that sabrina 1 May 2014 #11

But is that a bad thing? Throughout history many Conspiracy Theories turned out rhett o rick May 2014 #21

Coincidence Theorist billhicks76 May 2014 #29

With lack of facts we can see... awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #72

Yes, the President got it right nt Progressive dog May 2014 #91

The real question I have is hootinholler May 2014 #102

You are good at fishing LOL :) snooper2 May 2014 #232

I wonder why there's a "lack of knowledge of what is going on in the negotiations" arcane1 May 2014 #2

Could it be the secrecy? Octafish May 2014 #10

LOL! emsimon33 May 2014 #118

There are things that we did not know that we did not know IDemo May 2014 #125

Bingo! deutsey May 2014 #166

Because this is how the Corporate owners of this country want it... elzenmahn May 2014 #181

I for one support our Free Trade champion! IDemo May 2014 #3

Good on you. So, why do TPP negotiators get multi-million dollar bonuses from Wall Street? Octafish May 2014 #15

You missed the reference post IDemo May 2014 #18

Thank you, IDemo. Octafish May 2014 #25

Ugland House pscot May 2014 #171

Amazing what the rich and their corporations will do to hide the money. Octafish May 2014 #180

"Free Trade champion" Maedhros May 2014 #57

thanks for clearing that up. Phlem May 2014 #65

Not for me sakabatou May 2014 #163

Better Oligarchs! GeorgeGist May 2014 #4

Despots make the best allies, it seems. Octafish May 2014 #20

some have selective memories noiretextatique May 2014 #27

Thanks for the reminder, Octafish. Raksha May 2014 #62

Don't forget Saddam Hussein... awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #76

Iraq nationalized their oil in 1972. WatermelonRat May 2014 #207

Actually his sin was wanting to get off the petrodollar. hobbit709 May 2014 #222

That is a sobering and terrifying list... truebrit71 May 2014 #84

Depends on how you define "best." Besides, our helping to prop up despots merrily May 2014 #165

Pretty sure those new laws won't be applied to him... truebrit71 May 2014 #82

Methinks "Conspiracy Theorists" is a euphemism for "Fucking Retarded" BrotherIvan May 2014 #5

On the Wrong Side of Globalization Octafish May 2014 #36

Thanks for the link/excerpt to the Stiglitz article erronis May 2014 #85

Message auto-removed Name removed May 2014 #6

conspiracy: the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal Tierra_y_Libertad May 2014 #7

So the President is correct. It's just that it isnt a bad thing. nm rhett o rick May 2014 #22

quite an interesting choice of words on the part of POTUS nashville_brook May 2014 #37

Projection. nt awoke_in_2003 May 2014 #77

Conspiracy and class interest. OnyxCollie May 2014 #97

''if and only if social welfare is improved by doing so.'' Octafish May 2014 #194

Like using government position to enrich cronies. Octafish May 2014 #192

Intellectual Profiling from Tool Central n/t whatchamacallit May 2014 #9

It made me sad in a most profound way. Octafish May 2014 #69

Indeed Octafish whatchamacallit May 2014 #75

Conspiratorial Wink Octafish May 2014 #94

Questioning what the government does in secret is pretty kooky Douglas Carpenter May 2014 #12

Thank you, Cass Sunstein. Octafish May 2014 #190

Hope and Change. woo me with science May 2014 #13

What would Goldman think? Octafish May 2014 #32

Conspiracy Theory ' Ichingcarpenter May 2014 #14

Stellar post. I wish you would break this down and make an OP, or several. woo me with science May 2014 #19

You could do that.. Ichingcarpenter May 2014 #24

This message was self-deleted by its author woo me with science May 2014 #31

Iching has it right. Puzzledtraveller May 2014 #105

ban public health care. I wonder if the president was lying about wanting Doctor_J May 2014 #128

Well, his trade negotiator is conspiring with lobbyists in secret. pa28 May 2014 #16

Great point. It's conspiracy reality. nm rhett o rick May 2014 #23

It IS a conspiracy. 99Forever May 2014 #17

I don't think they care anymore. woo me with science May 2014 #28

They know it works. stillwaiting May 2014 #79

And they know their cheerleaders are 100% behind corporatism. HooptieWagon May 2014 #88

are you referring to Obama or his fan club? Skittles May 2014 #153

I knew he was a corporatist from the beginning, and wasn't even in my Top 3 to vote for, but he Ghost in the Machine May 2014 #42

His tribe. SolutionisSolidarity May 2014 #58

debbie was-shultz said the same thing about people claiming the gop was rigging elections leftyohiolib May 2014 #26

....and one of the main reasons I don't particularly care for her... truebrit71 May 2014 #81

He should have directed that to the tea party and its New World Order conspiracy theorists. pampango May 2014 #30

Any idea what nationalize the fed May 2014 #33

Oh, they all strung those three words together. I think that tea partiers take those words to mean pampango May 2014 #51

But you can't criticize Republicans, you have to reach across the aisle and work together! Scootaloo May 2014 #40

Yeah, got to be 'bipartisan', I guess. But it causes much consternation among liberals who pampango May 2014 #55

his comments are directed at liberals noiretextatique May 2014 #160

What makes you say that? Conservatives rely on conspiracy theories much more than liberals. pampango May 2014 #209

you think republicons are really against tpp? noiretextatique May 2014 #238

Depends on whether you are talking about their politicians or their base. pampango May 2014 #239

Why? ProSense May 2014 #196

Just because there's a conspiracy theory doesn't mean there's no conspiracy... nt backscatter712 May 2014 #34

Money. Octafish May 2014 #224

Trust but verify? Enthusiast May 2014 #35

I'm a hard sell on conspiracy theories Jack Rabbit May 2014 #38

The conspiracy is no longer a theory. HooptieWagon May 2014 #60

Perfectly said! arcane1 May 2014 #61

The President knows full well that we don't want this TPP thing. Enthusiast May 2014 #39

Because it isn't the voters that grease his palms. nt NorthCarolina May 2014 #169

in secret behind our backs. thanks, obama nt msongs May 2014 #41

Secret Government is Democracy's most pressing problem. Octafish May 2014 #203

NO, he didn't. jazzimov May 2014 #43

For the side show of irrelevance: He also indicated the Democratic Party has conspiracy theories. Octafish May 2014 #48

Just starting to post that paragraph you have in red. madfloridian May 2014 #73

Would not the words "objections" and "protests" cover "real concerns"? JoePhilly May 2014 #78

You are right, nothing we say matters in DC. That is obvious, and that paragraph is amazing. sabrina 1 May 2014 #90

That's what the Princeton/Northwestern study found... Octafish May 2014 #98

How do people defend this nonsense? TiberiusB May 2014 #131

What a surprise treestar May 2014 #109

Obama Dog Whistled: grahamhgreen May 2014 #174

You can't stop it. Tobin S. May 2014 #44

This treaty will join the Constitution as the highest law of the land. JDPriestly May 2014 #50

It may not sit well with you, but that's the way it is. Tobin S. May 2014 #63

What you are talking about is not capitalism. It's corporatism. JDPriestly May 2014 #67

Okay, put in corporatism where I said capitalism. Same deal for the rest of the post. n/t Tobin S. May 2014 #70

so why does business push globalism when... grasswire May 2014 #71

A lot of business people buy into the idea Tobin S. May 2014 #74

Perhaps there is something we can do. In fact you sort of suggested it. sabrina 1 May 2014 #83

Maybe so, sabrina. Nice post. n/t Tobin S. May 2014 #87

I know that's where my head is at. magical thyme May 2014 #92

Savvy business peopel have been thinking on a global scale for at least truedelphi May 2014 #114

We have tools, we just need to use them The Green Manalishi May 2014 #178

Boy, you can really tell when a Third Way type doesn't need your vote anymore. /nt Marr May 2014 #45

What was that about being more free to pursue his agenda during the second term? woo me with science May 2014 #68

Yep-- I think about that line from time to time myself. Marr May 2014 #106

Setting aside conspiracy theories, the reality in these trade agreements is that they JDPriestly May 2014 #46

Very important post. Thank you, JDPriestly. Octafish May 2014 #231

if it's so fucking great, why is it so fucking secret? KG May 2014 #47

There it is in a nutshell. n/t Raksha May 2014 #112

+1000000000 woo me with science May 2014 #120

Because it's not so great? joshcryer May 2014 #135

K & R !!! WillyT May 2014 #49

Parent less children abelenkpe May 2014 #52

It's as if the human costs weren't even an afterthought. Octafish May 2014 #189

Well that does it then, I am all for the TPP. zeemike May 2014 #53

Ugh BlindTiresias May 2014 #54

Did you actually read the exact quote? brett_jv May 2014 #191

THIS is why he needs to keep it a secret: bvar22 May 2014 #56

TPP Would Mean a Pay Cut for 90% of U.S. Workers Octafish May 2014 #183

Doing nothing may be worse. Hoyt May 2014 #187

For whom? The Council on Foreign Relations? Octafish May 2014 #220

Others come to different conclusions. Hoyt May 2014 #225

Not one of those charts shows American workers gaining jobs. Octafish May 2014 #230

Maintaining jobs is also important in a global market. Like I said, things could be worse doin nutin Hoyt May 2014 #233

Wages were flat for 20 years (fell for 7 years right) before NAFTA, rose from 1994-2000 then pampango May 2014 #226

Says the man who fredamae May 2014 #59

Dear Mr. President: Brigid May 2014 #64

Yup...that's why this is being called "Shafta"... truebrit71 May 2014 #86

K&R DeSwiss May 2014 #66

And the jury results are in... aikoaiko May 2014 #89

If and when words and/or their order of delivery...... DeSwiss May 2014 #93

Outstanding post, DeSwiss. Octafish May 2014 #95

De nada DeSwiss May 2014 #99

And... KoKo May 2014 #130

''Unbecoming is becoming the norm.'' DeSwiss May 2014 #144

+100000000 woo me with science May 2014 #188

So how about you open up the negotiations then? truebrit71 May 2014 #80

It's not a theory n2doc May 2014 #96

Hoo-boy. He's completely jumped the shark Doctor_J May 2014 #100

Is it telling that only one bobduca May 2014 #101

Smoochy, moochy...nt SidDithers May 2014 #104

sneer bobduca May 2014 #110

that is just insulting G_j May 2014 #103

Phew...that stinks TheKentuckian May 2014 #107

Great stuff as always, Octafish. nt navarth May 2014 #108

Doesn't really matter what is going on in negotiations. Congress must approve any proposed agreement Hoyt May 2014 #111

True, the conspiracy may well fail. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Jim Lane May 2014 #115

Since it's secret, we don't really know. And it won't be fast-tracked, so Hoyt May 2014 #116

That's what Obama was saying. joshcryer May 2014 #133

Who knows what will happen in January? Octafish May 2014 #184

Right. Obama is planning to throw the election to GOP. They will then, Hoyt May 2014 #186

I didn't say that, but I do know I don't know what will happen. Octafish May 2014 #198

Like you say, you don't know but you are sure Obama will screw us. Hoyt May 2014 #199

Right you are, based on his record. Octafish May 2014 #201

Washington Examiner... SidDithers May 2014 #204

So, you're OK with Geithner sacrificing millions of homeowners? Octafish May 2014 #205

So you're OK using far-rightwing sources to support your criticisms of the Obama administration?..nt SidDithers May 2014 #206

LOL. Octafish May 2014 #212

BBI was a big fan of right-wing sources too... SidDithers May 2014 #213

Threats are so you. Octafish May 2014 #215

And you have a history of using right-wing asshats for sources... SidDithers May 2014 #216

I've 40,000 posts, maybe 4,000 OPs. None support the rightwing. Octafish May 2014 #218

Delaying foreclosures was a bad thing? Hoyt May 2014 #208

No, which is why the administration's actions were so reprehensible. Octafish May 2014 #214

I hope enough members of congress are conspiracy theorists. clg311 May 2014 #113

Ditto--we have our work cut out for us emsimon33 May 2014 #119

I trust such people as Elizabeth Warren before I trust Obama any more emsimon33 May 2014 #117

For me, it is heartbreaking and disgusting at the same time. Octafish May 2014 #200

Spoken like a true corporatist. roomtomove May 2014 #121

And what about the TTIP? roomtomove May 2014 #122

Programmed by Penny Pritzker Octafish May 2014 #235

I don't agree with the TPP, but I disagree that the US Government criminal or evil davidpdx May 2014 #123

You say that like it's a bad thing. Brigid May 2014 #172

Well, I'm saying is I admit it davidpdx May 2014 #217

This is what you get when you vote for whoever sucks less. L0oniX May 2014 #124

Nothing theoretical about it. It is harmful, and they are trying like hell to ram it through. GoneFishin May 2014 #126

*sigh* Phlem May 2014 #127

Real "double speak" from Mr. Obama. blkmusclmachine May 2014 #129

"President Obama lacks knowledge" joshcryer May 2014 #132

"Obama calls critics of TPP secrecy 'Conspiracy Theorists'" Phlem May 2014 #134

They are. TPP secrecy is typical for trade agreements. joshcryer May 2014 #137

Thanks for clearing that up. I read your previous post with a different tone. Phlem May 2014 #141

Obama would love to have TPP part of his legacy. joshcryer May 2014 #161

Plus to keep dumping corn and soybeans, everywhere (nt) Recursion May 2014 #157

And, that might be overly kind. It's amazing he remains so cool with some of this criticism. Hoyt May 2014 #139

Not so much when you consider his term is done. Phlem May 2014 #142

Except, he's not. Hoyt May 2014 #146

Oh, OK then. Phlem May 2014 #149

Of course people have a "lack of knowledge" -- BECAUSE HE AND HIS F'n CRONIES WONT REVEAL ANYTHING Armstead May 2014 #136

What was wrong in NAFTA? It preceded the only increase in real wages in the past 40 years. Recursion May 2014 #138

Or tech workers? Phlem May 2014 #143

And how did NAFTA impact that decision to move operations? Recursion May 2014 #145

My 3D game job got shipped to India or China. There was an operation in our company Phlem May 2014 #147

And what does NAFTA have to do with that? (nt) Recursion May 2014 #148

My job was gone after NAFTA passed. Phlem May 2014 #150

Right, but NAFTA didn't impact trade with Asia, at all Recursion May 2014 #151

It was the signal for Companies to start off shoring. Phlem May 2014 #154

They started offshoring in the 1960's. How did NAFTA signal that 30 years before? Recursion May 2014 #155

Oh I don't know Phlem May 2014 #156

I'm waiting for that answer too. Hoyt May 2014 #152

Here's what's wrong with NAFTA. Octafish May 2014 #221

+1000000000 HooptieWagon May 2014 #229

Whatever happened to iamthebandfanman May 2014 #140

As their supporters. Phlem May 2014 #158

Wow, he just called anyone who believes it is correct to question our leaders an "N" word. fleabiscuit May 2014 #159

How transparent of him. nt silvershadow May 2014 #162

Who promised the US voter the most transparent administration ever? merrily May 2014 #164

Same person who said he'd fix NAFTA? Octafish May 2014 #223

Dear Barack, Scuba May 2014 #167

It's not a theory Oilwellian May 2014 #168

Release the damn thing then! Why keep it a secret? newfie11 May 2014 #170

+1 grahamhgreen May 2014 #175

One reason, it's not finished. I don't think any of it has been presented to Congress. Hoyt May 2014 #182

It's not a theory. Iraq has WMD - that was a theory. grahamhgreen May 2014 #173

WMD wasn't a theory, either IDemo May 2014 #176

Right! It was just a conspiracy! grahamhgreen May 2014 #219

The Oligarchs and owners of this country have pushed us so far to the right randys1 May 2014 #177

So all the Unions who worked so hard to get him in office are now conspiracy nuts ? classykaren May 2014 #179

Nobel Prize went to the fired economist who pointed out the real issues in global finance. Octafish May 2014 #185

People, you really need to read the actual quote instead of slurping the spin of this 'article'. brett_jv May 2014 #193

Well brett_jv... 99Forever May 2014 #195

Well, ProSense May 2014 #197

When a group conspires to keep and enact something in secret - that is a conspiracy on point May 2014 #202

It will not be enacted in secrecy. Hoyt May 2014 #210

Phew! bobduca May 2014 #211

Apparently, transparency at work. Yep, right! Guess I'm a CT'er too RKP5637 May 2014 #227

Well, when you do things in secrecy and have no transparency.... NCTraveler May 2014 #228

K&R raouldukelives May 2014 #234

his actions only foster proliferation of conspiracy theories 0rganism May 2014 #236

I would like to know how one supports a policy deal made in secret. n/t Jefferson23 May 2014 #237