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In reply to the discussion: As a gay man, I think this privilege debate is kind of ridiculous. [View all]BainsBane
(53,112 posts)Last edited Sat May 10, 2014, 10:40 PM - Edit history (1)
You missed my central point in the post you objected to. Race is distinct from class and sexuality. That one faces disadvantages in the latter two doesn't mean one isn't privileged in the first. This is not a very complicated concept. There is no reason it should have to be explained multiple times, except that some clearly have made a willful decision to refuse to understand.
Your assumption that a white sociologist can know as much about the EXPERIENCE of racism as a person of color is ridiculous. A sociologist knows what she can measure and what she can't. I have a PhD in history and have done research on slavery and written about race. That doesn't for a second mean I know how it feels to be a person of color. That you even imagine academic knowlege substitutes for experience is bizarre. No academic would make such an assumption. They would maintain no credibility if they did.
Race, class and gender are not "propaganda tools." They are modes of analysis and subject positions produced by society. They influence HUMAN EXPERIENCES, the lives of human beings you think can be captured through sociological data.
Lots of people don't feel privileged. The rich don't feel privileged either. Does that mean they aren't? The fact is as white people we are not subject to racial discrimination. If I'm pulled over in the car, it's for a valid reason, not because the cops think I couldn't own the car. Very few black men, if any, in this country haven't been pulled over when they haven't committed a violation. That is their typical experience. The fact that doesn't happen to us gives us a certain privilege over them in terms of race. I as a straight person don't face legal impediments to marriage and other discrimination based on whom I love. That gives me privilege over the OP in terms of sexuality. He has other privileges I do not as a result of being male. Privilege is simply a way of talking about the absence of the experience of discrimination. In the case of white privilege, it means the absence of racial discrimination.
I would be very surprised if anyone told you to shut up. That sounds like more BS you made up to trivialize the issue. You can say anything you want. You can post an OP claiming you know as much about the experience of racism as members of color. And others in turn can disagree and draw conclusions about you as a result. Your are entitled to free speech, not the absence of criticism.
You continue to willfully ignore what people have said. Your comment here is a prime example:
I'd like to see evidence of people of color saying "I'm more discriminated against than you." You don't provide quotes or links rather than your exaggerations. I have seen posters like 1strongblackman carefully explain that while he is subject to racism, he benefits from privilege as a man and a straight person. I haven't seen any of those posters get into pissing matches about which group is more discriminated against. That is bullshit you have invented to delegitimate their concerns.
Your made up quote aside, what the original poster is actually saying is that he doesn't feel privileged because he is gay and Jewish. Those factors don't give him privilege, and homosexuals are especially discriminated against. But that doesn't mean he doesn't bear white privilege and privilege as a male, just as I bear white privilege and privilege as a straight person. It's not a pissing contest. It's a discussion over the basic fact that racism matters and that to be targeted for racism renders a person without certain liberties that extend to us who are white. Did you even read my first post? I was very clear. All white privilege means is that you are not subject to racism. You object to something that basic as a way to insist race is so irrelevant, one can know just as much about it from doing statistical surveys.
You introduce one red herring after another.
I really don't care how you put out by the indignity of having a handful of African American posters on this board talking about issues like white privilege that concern them. That you describe it as "propaganda" tells me how little respect you have for those issues. This whole angst by some DUers that a few people had the audacity to mention white privilege is a stunning demonstration of entitlement. Posts about racism are "propaganda" rather than a legitimate discussion because you imagine the only purpose of speech is for your benefit. It's not. People get to talk about what they want. and if you don't like it you can ignore it. You might as well, since you clearly have decided you have no intention of understanding what they are talking about.