General Discussion

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)

29. Why is the liberation from labor "fear mongering"?!

Fri Aug 15, 2014, 06:08 PM

Aug 2014

The question is how it will be done, because it can be a liberation, or a nightmare. Under the capitalist system of private ownership of the means of production, it is heading toward the nightmare of making humans increasingly superfluous, the majority of them to be viewed as enemies to the all-powerful and divine dictates of the "economy."

The first step toward liberation is to see that a collective effort produces everything, that the amount of labor-time an individual puts in does not and cannot directly translate into production and rewards for participation, and that it doesn't matter: We could all work less, or do work we love, and live better. We have the means for a guaranteed income to all, in a better and happier place.

Which shall we choose?

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This is the future. It doesn't include jobs for humans. [View all] phantom power Aug 2014 OP

, blkmusclmachine Aug 2014 #1

Vonnegut called this decades ago KamaAina Aug 2014 #2

Except in "Player Piano," the citizenry got houses, food, medical care, and Nay Aug 2014 #77

Well at some point they will have to make jobs for people n2doc Aug 2014 #3

Or just share the profits n/t leftstreet Aug 2014 #4

Heaven's no! n2doc Aug 2014 #8

I think with that kind of unemplyment, society will tear itself apart. NutmegYankee Aug 2014 #14

That's what I mean n2doc Aug 2014 #15

Exactly. With a great deal of permanently-unemployed people they could riot, loot, etc. Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #31

There's a third option..... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #34

There are lots of good options n2doc Aug 2014 #38

What is with this fetish for unnecessary labor? DireStrike Aug 2014 #41

The depressing thing is, we could already do some of that. But we don't. phantom power Aug 2014 #43

True enough. DireStrike Aug 2014 #48

Star Trek predicts a future without money.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #46

Exactly! We certainly are not even close, but that's what it will be ... the road getting there RKP5637 Aug 2014 #52

Here's three almost forgotten words guaranteed to drive the right winger in your life insane... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #55

People forget why it was windmills Quixote charged Recursion Aug 2014 #71

A century is not a particularly important length of time. DireStrike Aug 2014 #74

Is it the Delphinus Aug 2014 #73

That will be the purpose of World War III. roamer65 Aug 2014 #50

Libertarians do have an answer. hifiguy Aug 2014 #5

I think that was more along what Stalin and Mao did. former9thward Aug 2014 #26

Nice sound bite. DireStrike Aug 2014 #42

Nice Marxist sound bite former9thward Aug 2014 #45

The Randites would go more for hifiguy Aug 2014 #58

Stalin lives again. former9thward Aug 2014 #59

that's already happening tho. redruddyred Nov 2014 #82

As I listen, the voice also seems computer-generated...... djean111 Aug 2014 #6

a wildly external event happens Glassunion Aug 2014 #23

Bwahahaha! Yes! The robots NEVER expect the Spanish Inquisition! djean111 Aug 2014 #24

Excellent!! hifiguy Aug 2014 #60

So much for Karl Marx and his "labor theory of value"... nt GliderGuider Aug 2014 #7

You haven't read Marx, obviously. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #39

You can start here. GliderGuider Aug 2014 #63

Oh no, a libertarian attack site dislikes Marx. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #64

Very few of us "really read" outside our choice of ideological frameworks very often. GliderGuider Aug 2014 #67

I'm very interested. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #68

No, I'm not Tim Garrett. However, GliderGuider Aug 2014 #72

Will it be completely problematic? ck4829 Aug 2014 #9

That depends on what kinds of choices we humans make. For now. phantom power Aug 2014 #16

Yes, but can we afford to survive as we learn, explore, volunteer, etc.? Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #33

We would need a lot of things people consider 'socialism' ck4829 Aug 2014 #61

The people inside the dome who own the robots will not hear our cries. n/t Orsino Aug 2014 #10

so the answer is....invest in robotics firms! nt antigop Aug 2014 #11

Seems to me that the more jobless people, the fewer consumers there will be. djean111 Aug 2014 #12

That is one possible outcome phantom power Aug 2014 #17

I understand about a model where humans do not have to work to earn resources. djean111 Aug 2014 #20

It may be that we can engineer a guerilla-automated-capital-production campaign. DireStrike Aug 2014 #47

It seems to me that the only way to correct for this problem is to LuvNewcastle Aug 2014 #13

I think a GNI would be an excellent idea--but agree that it would be diffiicult, if not impossible, Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #35

It's not going to come to a revolution. Liberal MRA Aug 2014 #81

If government can take the banksters and corporations out of the equation, Trillo Aug 2014 #18

There will always be jobs for human benders Capt. Obvious Aug 2014 #19

Do real Democrats even use the label Democrats anymore? L0oniX Aug 2014 #21

Only made it about four minutes in wickerwoman Aug 2014 #22

Pretty much every "thing" is already manufactured in a factory, which takes energy. DireStrike Aug 2014 #49

It's not so much the energy as the materials to construct the robots wickerwoman Aug 2014 #57

Oh I agree on your timescale. DireStrike Aug 2014 #62

Republicans will be lost now that they wont be able to say. Get a JOB you lazy bum! ErikJ Aug 2014 #25

And that's the truth. Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #36

Over-the-top fear mongering IMO Auggie Aug 2014 #27

Why is the liberation from labor "fear mongering"?! JackRiddler Aug 2014 #29

Its more like a public service announcement phantom power Aug 2014 #40

Really? You don't think robots can at some point do everything? nt Logical Aug 2014 #54

The promise of tech was to free humans from labor.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #28

Koch said people should be willing to be street-sweepers. JackRiddler Aug 2014 #30

Someone needs to tell him there are machines that do that.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2014 #32

It won't be pretty. lpbk2713 Aug 2014 #37

That chart at the end was very very interesting phantom power Aug 2014 #44

We saw this coming decades ago. In some of my economics classes we discussed a jobless society. RKP5637 Aug 2014 #51

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #53

k and r nt Mojorabbit Aug 2014 #56

In my job they aren't replacing us with robots... lunatica Aug 2014 #65

Perhaps human purpose and the human experience ZX86 Aug 2014 #66

This guy isn't as bright as he thinks he is LOL snooper2 Aug 2014 #69

BUCKMINSTER FULLER said it better! JackRiddler Aug 2014 #70

I've never read that quote before, Delphinus Aug 2014 #75

Bucky Fuller. Trim Tab. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #78

Do we have adequate resources to power all these machines? Hippo_Tron Aug 2014 #76

I think this is coming, but the effect so far is not enough to explain current employment problems Silent3 Aug 2014 #79

The only reason for the very existence of most of us is that the Elite need labor grunts johnlucas Aug 2014 #80