General Discussion

Kurska

(5,739 posts)

6. I'll give credit to you for actually going there.

Sun Aug 24, 2014, 03:04 PM

Aug 2014

That is a rather unpopular opinion to say the least.

The great unanswered question about really dark sexuality. Those who find murder, rape and children attractive to me, how many people have these urges and never act on them? And why don't they?

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Neil Gaiman writes "Why defend freedom of icky speech?" [View all] Kurska Aug 2014 OP

'I'm curious how DU would react to this.' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Aug 2014 #1

I've seen people absolutely advocate banning fictional depictions of rape. Kurska Aug 2014 #3

Could you post a link thucythucy Aug 2014 #8

I don't write it down post numbers or usernames. Kurska Aug 2014 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author thucythucy Aug 2014 #11

Here's one: Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #13

I appreciate the link thucythucy Aug 2014 #24

A fact is, speech influences thoughts & behaviors. alp227 Aug 2014 #10

First off, I'd really like proof that not banning it increases rapes. Kurska Aug 2014 #12

Way to completely miss Gaiman's point SwankyXomb Aug 2014 #17

Japan has some incredibly graphic porn and has a much lower rate of sexual assault than the U.S. mythology Aug 2014 #39

What exactly do you mean by "fictional depictions of rape"? nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #61

Lots of countries have obscenity laws that restrict written OR visual sexual abuse. alp227 Aug 2014 #68

Thanks for clarifying. I guess "glorify" is really the key word there. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #69

What they were probably referring to is "rape porn" that's indistinguishable from actual rape. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #59

I don't think fiction should be a crime in the great majority of circumstances. As for depictions of Louisiana1976 Aug 2014 #2

So, yes? daleanime Aug 2014 #5

Interesting how so many posters seem to be dancing around that proposition without saying so. n/t X_Digger Aug 2014 #28

If fiction can be a crime, Ayn Rand would have died in prison. Warpy Aug 2014 #4

I'll give credit to you for actually going there. Kurska Aug 2014 #6

Had she stayed in Russia and written what she did Igel Aug 2014 #7

She should have been jailed for crimes against the English language. hifiguy Aug 2014 #21

Hate speech can be defined, banned and fairly prosecuted...every other Western nation knows how. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #14

So you support jailing people for expressing their opinions? Kurska Aug 2014 #15

You exaggerate, free speech is already limited in many ways, it is matter of drawing the line. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #34

Again, you support imprisoning people for up to 5 years for expressing an opinion. Kurska Aug 2014 #40

Why are you conflating incitement of hatred and expression of opinion? nt alp227 Aug 2014 #43

You can't have a hateful opinion or even vile opinion? Don't hide behind the terminology. Kurska Aug 2014 #44

If it causes harm to an entire class of people, the opinion is subject to opposition. nt alp227 Aug 2014 #45

Not "opposition" legal sanction enforced by the government, including prison. Kurska Aug 2014 #46

Quite a bit of mealy-mouthed doublespeak, isn't it? X_Digger Aug 2014 #47

But, freedom of speech is just so doubleplusungood isn't it? Kurska Aug 2014 #48

Yep. This is the issue hifiguy Aug 2014 #81

No mask. Only logic and dealing with reality. Flights of fancy I have no problem with, imagination Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #83

there are a great many people who sincerely believe that advocating for gay rights dsc Aug 2014 #52

Nonono, only things that WE DON'T LIKE will get banned, don'cha'know?!? ;) n/t X_Digger Aug 2014 #56

Define "cause." hifiguy Aug 2014 #80

That is why we have lawyers and judges and why laymen make poor consultants. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #84

Just to clarify hifiguy Aug 2014 #85

The law evolves over time, as hate speech law has evolved. Continuing education is valuable. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #87

IMO the "hate speech" laws are hifiguy Aug 2014 #88

Absolutely. Very strictly construed and narrow by the courts, which has indeed been the experience. Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #90

He needs to separate the notion of allowing vile speech but not hate speech that is intended to cite Fred Sanders Aug 2014 #86

German history makes that country hifiguy Aug 2014 #51

I don't believe so. Kurska Aug 2014 #55

Just imagine the laws that would spring up in Southern states banning the mocking of Christianity Nye Bevan Aug 2014 #16

People always imagine it as some "utopia" where only their opinion is protected Kurska Aug 2014 #19

So free speech for everyone SwankyXomb Aug 2014 #20

do they? DonCoquixote Aug 2014 #26

And this is one of those rare instances Codeine Aug 2014 #36

They are wrong to do so LittleBlue Aug 2014 #73

Awww, that pesky 1st Amendment Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #74

I used to manage an sf/comicshop in the 1990s hifiguy Aug 2014 #18

My strong belief in the freedom of speech is perhaps the only absolutist view I have. conservaphobe Aug 2014 #22

That sums up my view as well. Codeine Aug 2014 #37

Hate speech should not be covered by the First Amendment Matrosov Aug 2014 #23

Just about anything controversial could be described as hate speech in relation to someone. Kurska Aug 2014 #25

Emotion vs logic Matrosov Aug 2014 #58

I hate to be pedantic but the Justice Holmes quote tht hifiguy Aug 2014 #27

Hate speech absolutely is protected by the First Amendment. Codeine Aug 2014 #42

Indeed Matrosov Aug 2014 #57

Who defines what speech is hateful? Be careful what you wish for. Throd Aug 2014 #60

+1000 nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #62

It always is and no one hifiguy Aug 2014 #89

All humans have uncomfortable thoughts. Artists explore & unpack them. Thinking isn't criminal. politicat Aug 2014 #29

........ daleanime Aug 2014 #32

/nods vigorously. politicat Aug 2014 #33

Thank goodness that I watched it alone.... daleanime Aug 2014 #66

And Barefoot Gen Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #54

Damn, that's on my list to get to.... daleanime Aug 2014 #63

It is, but you'll definitely feel the pain. Blue_Adept Aug 2014 #78

As a fellow fiction writer, I want to say I really appreciate this post. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #64

Thanks. Art must have room to breathe. politicat Aug 2014 #70

Freedom of speech also extends to criticism of such speech BainsBane Aug 2014 #30

Of course it does. hifiguy Aug 2014 #31

In your opinion BainsBane Aug 2014 #35

Of course.... daleanime Aug 2014 #38

It isn't a canard when there are examples of it in this very thread. Kurska Aug 2014 #41

Links? BainsBane Aug 2014 #49

Post 13 contains a link. Kurska Aug 2014 #50

This is the other side of it. Criticism =/= censorship. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #65

And criticism of that criticism, and so on. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #75

That "comic" sounds disgusting. NaturalHigh Aug 2014 #53

As a writer myself, I am absolutely opposed to censorship of fictional works. nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #67

Yelling Fire at home with family and friends is your prerogative, is your right - Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #71

The "fire in a theater" example is overused, and widely misunderstood. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #77

whatever. good bye. Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2014 #79

The EU desperately needs a freedom of speech guarantee LittleBlue Aug 2014 #72

The whole point of the 1st Amendment is that it protects unpopular or even icky speech. Warren DeMontague Aug 2014 #76

Which is just what Madison and hifiguy Aug 2014 #82

+2 nomorenomore08 Aug 2014 #92

Cass Sunstein doesn't like icky speech that casts government in a bad light. Octafish Aug 2014 #91