General Discussion

DissedByBush

(3,342 posts)

118. It is a difficult position we've been placed in

Thu Dec 22, 2011, 04:13 PM

Dec 2011

When deployed in conflict, our soldiers tend to be completely separated from uninvolved civilians except in clearly known cases, such as guarded checkpoints on roads.

A mortar strike on our soldiers over there pretty much guarantees the enemy will only kill soldiers. We tend to carry only soldiers and involved civilians in our vehicles, so a targeted roadside bomb will not likely kill uninvolved civilians. An enemy can easily strike us with a very high confidence that uninvolved civilians will not get hurt. This is a war, and our soldiers are fair game. A car bomb at a checkpoint with civilians present means that the enemy purposely targeted civilians in addition to soldiers, and they do tend to do that, but we shouldn't lower ourselves to that standard.

Our problem is that the enemy purposely hides among civilians. They appreciate the propaganda value of their kids who were killed because they were kept in close proximity to armed combatants.

It's hard to fight against such an enemy without killing kids, no matter how hard we try otherwise. The only other thing to do is not fight, and of course to lose if we choose that.

Of course, instead of blaming the killing on us, you could blame the killing on those combatants who purposely put those children in harm's way.

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Obama less popular on DU than war-making [View all] davidswanson Dec 2011 OP

WHAA? orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #1

"Did you ever notice the vicious contempt for war opposition on DU? " nope. dionysus Dec 2011 #2

+1. joshcryer Dec 2011 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author emulatorloo Dec 2011 #69

I want the OP to support his position with actual numbers. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #50

Or as we used to call it, Flamebait. emulatorloo Dec 2011 #117

No here too. treestar Dec 2011 #82

They've resorted to just making shit up, since nothing else seems to work. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2011 #102

i'll answer that with a merry christmas power fist! hold down the fort while i'm away ;) dionysus Dec 2011 #109

please bring back unrec OffWithTheirHeads Dec 2011 #3

^^this +1 n/t JTFrog Dec 2011 #4

Unrec. only OK if the count can be shown just as the Rec. is northoftheborder Dec 2011 #5

And the unreccers. The Doctor. Dec 2011 #90

ONLY if stuntcat Dec 2011 #95

now do you see what i mean? davidswanson Dec 2011 #6

Sorry n/t bye bye orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #10

Hear hear Richardo Dec 2011 #54

This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Dec 2011 #78

+1... SidDithers Dec 2011 #92

Unfortunately the trolls are recommending these threads and there is nothing we can do to counter it liberal N proud Dec 2011 #137

DU has always been anti-war. joshcryer Dec 2011 #7

People are confused. If it's a Republican war, it is evil. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #9

This was not a Democratic war ,PERIOD. President Obama pulled troops orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #12

So why did Obama want at least one permanent military base in Iraq then? cowcommander Dec 2011 #14

Hold up ! Him letting " Contractors " stay , thats worse orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Dec 2011 #77

McInsane would had us there for a century. orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Obamanaut Dec 2011 #88

you're right BobbyBoring Dec 2011 #112

Any guess would be overqulified.War mongers love orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #125

"You don't need a weatherman to know which way orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #124

probably the same reason we have a base in just about every other country in the World snooper2 Dec 2011 #96

Civil war ,Didn't do it ,Shrub and his cronies made that orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #130

Yes, that one was a Republican war. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #20

I am opposed to war for any reason., my orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #23

Ah, the "more imaginary wars" meme. TheWraith Dec 2011 #43

Yes, the new 'smart policies'. Where we use drones and troops provided by sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #46

+1. joshcryer Dec 2011 #58

The truth should never be suppressed and in my experience has not been. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #71

Ahh, OK, well, I do not believe the allegations made were honest or truthful... joshcryer Dec 2011 #74

+1...then! good one. nt ooglymoogly Dec 2011 #56

This has been a Democratic war since 2007. Fuddnik Dec 2011 #87

Yes, and one ended by Democrats. Indeed, 'take off the blinders'. n/t The Doctor. Dec 2011 #91

By that logic, it then reverted to a Republican war again... SidDithers Dec 2011 #93

This is the thing I hate the most tavalon Dec 2011 #65

I wish everyone shared your opinion on the subject BobbyBoring Dec 2011 #115

Yep. That's it! tblue Dec 2011 #128

No time for warmongering. Octafish Dec 2011 #11

Ike warned us. orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #13

You see what Panetta said about the illegal, immoral, unnecessary and disastrous Iraq invasion? Octafish Dec 2011 #16

Polishing a turd ,it's an insult to intelligence, I know. orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #25

it's just a cynical outgrowth of that 'willingness' you speak of bigtree Dec 2011 #15

Yes, GD was always more popular than GDP... joshcryer Dec 2011 #18

The arguments are not against the President, they are against US Foreign sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #22

whatever. Anti-war here is a fad which increases in relation to opposition to the President bigtree Dec 2011 #27

Well, then, what if this adminstration decides it is legal? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #34

why would I support it then? bigtree Dec 2011 #39

Apologies then. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #42

Dick declared war on us! orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #32

If Iran gives or sells nuclear weapons to terrorist organizations, would you go to war over that? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #52

Well, that's your opinion. I don't agree with it. It is the sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #57

This works only if you believe that Iran is only pursuing a peaceful nuclear program. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #76

Everything you say about Iran, can and has been said about the US except that sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #84

Thanks for supporting peace. The Iran bashers have no self awareness. cpwm17 Dec 2011 #140

You're welcome, I sincerely hope that no one in this administration will be insane enough to cave sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #141

I really wish unrec was still available. Such crap posted here lately..n/t monmouth Dec 2011 #17

Latley ,how about people that stuck up for " not on the table " Pelosi orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #21

Well, he got that nice Peace prize and then escalated a lost war. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #24

So, you would have prefered that we just bailed and let the people of Iraq suffer cstanleytech Dec 2011 #66

Who caused most of the suffering? Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #70

Our government caused alot of the problems sure but I find it interesting that cstanleytech Dec 2011 #81

The government of Iraq is the author of many of the problems. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #101

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am talking about cstanleytech Dec 2011 #103

You seem to be under the impression that our destruction and occupation of Iraq Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2011 #104

No, I dont think we should still be there cstanleytech Dec 2011 #121

truth..nt xiamiam Dec 2011 #105

i've noticed the same trend on DU -- as we've seen in the country at large. marasinghe Dec 2011 #26

Never taken a Right view in my life! orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #28

59 myself & the same. but - & this is only a guess - i think we are a small minority. marasinghe Dec 2011 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #31

I think the change in principles is just the result of the relentless propaganda sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #38

Drones are pretty think Dec 2011 #29

Terminator shit ,it's wrong and smacks of NWO. orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #30

I get visions of 1984, Fahrenheit 451, Revelations, Ezekiel , and Daniel when I read about drones think Dec 2011 #37

By the way. Is it too early to start talking about a peace dividend? think Dec 2011 #41

I like drones DissedByBush Dec 2011 #99

And children as collateral damage in a country we are not at war with is acceptable? think Dec 2011 #100

Blaming the tool DissedByBush Dec 2011 #107

You might also be concerned about the death of innocent civillians of a country that is our allie think Dec 2011 #108

Again, not the tool DissedByBush Dec 2011 #110

To Obama's credit most of the 160 children killed by drones were under Bush's term think Dec 2011 #116

It is a difficult position we've been placed in DissedByBush Dec 2011 #118

As of April 25th 2011 this blog has documented over 702 taser deaths in the US think Dec 2011 #111

Again, blaming the tool DissedByBush Dec 2011 #114

I refuse your claim that you can't blame the tool. think Dec 2011 #120

How many would be dead if police didn't have tasers? DissedByBush Dec 2011 #122

which tool? The defender of the drone or...? fascisthunter Dec 2011 #126

The one with his head in the sand n/t DissedByBush Dec 2011 #132

oh... the defender of the drone... thanks fascisthunter Dec 2011 #139

Most ways of killing large numbers of people are pretty evil. bhikkhu Dec 2011 #45

I do think about it tavalon Dec 2011 #67

Lots of really stupid ideas are "popular" on DU. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #33

The only reason that was stupid is because Wall Street determines who the nominees sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #36

Really? Then riddle me this: Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #40

And yet, he keeps getting elected. sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #47

He tilts at presidential windmills from a safe district. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #48

Actually I think the best candidates dreamnightwind Dec 2011 #55

And did you ever really wonder why that is? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #62

A long time ago I decided that Dennis Kucinich was a kind of sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #59

This is where you are wrong. The Right does not hate Dennis, they don't really care much Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #63

You haven't spent time on rightwing forums, have you? sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #73

You must be kidding me. Forums? That's like farting in a hurricane. The noise isn't even heard. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #79

Yeah, that Kucinich guy is so flawed... dreamnightwind Dec 2011 #51

Then how does Sherrod Brown, a real Progressive get elected? Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #53

Thanks for blowing it for me DissedByBush Dec 2011 #119

He never ran statewide. Fuddnik Dec 2011 #89

+1 demosincebirth Dec 2011 #49

I don't recall anyone saying Kucinich was going to the be the nominee. I recall all kinds of people Hissyspit Dec 2011 #83

You mean because he senselessly prolonged unpopular military offensives on Iraq for three years? T S Justly Dec 2011 #35

Happy Xmas, David. EFerrari Dec 2011 #60

Only when it gets tangled up in the ubiquitous: Obama: Yay or Boo? poop throwing. DirkGently Dec 2011 #61

I hadn't noticed tavalon Dec 2011 #64

+brazilion! Hatchling Dec 2011 #68

So he ended the war in Iraq and you're still running with this canard? cliffordu Dec 2011 #72

Just movin' the goalposts. joshcryer Dec 2011 #75

Well, kicking puppies throught those goalposts might still upset a few people. Ikonoklast Dec 2011 #80

Flame bait...eom Kolesar Dec 2011 #86

Osama bin Lynched...nt SidDithers Dec 2011 #94

neemee, nib nub fascisthunter Dec 2011 #127

We 're supposed to leave Afghanistan in 2014. So he will actually give us 6 more years of war. Galle Dec 2011 #97

And some things are even less popular than Obama. JTFrog Dec 2011 #98

There used to be war opposition on DU. That was back when a republican was in office. leeroysphitz Dec 2011 #106

This is not the first time...... backtomn Dec 2011 #113

"Did you ever notice the vicious contempt for war opposition on DU?" Deep13 Dec 2011 #123

WTF are you talking about??? Skittles Dec 2011 #129

JFK was the last man to take responsibility orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #131

No he's not RZM Dec 2011 #133

It's a play on the false "DUers are for ending Habeus Corpus" meme. joshcryer Dec 2011 #134

DUers all have guns ,ah thats it, All DUers are really closet orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #135

I fully support the President and he has my vote in 2012. liberal N proud Dec 2011 #136

Agreed!!!! Good one!!!! orpupilofnature57 Dec 2011 #138

Well, that's fine, but if he starts a war in Iran, I will not be supporting him. I'm not a 'my party sabrina 1 Dec 2011 #142

DU is mostly anti-war cpwm17 Dec 2011 #143