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In reply to the discussion: Does ANYONE here SERIOUSLY believe that DU is full of paid trolls? [View all]Octafish
(55,745 posts)24. When someone or something is interested in shaping opinion, Yes.
Online Propaganda - Invisible Tool of Secret Government

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
By Glenn Greenwald
The Intercept, 24 Feb 2014
One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. Its time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.
Over the last several weeks, I worked with NBC News to publish a series of articles about dirty trick tactics used by GCHQs previously secret unit, JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group). These were based on four classified GCHQ documents presented to the NSA and the other three partners in the English-speaking Five Eyes alliance. Today, we at the Intercept are publishing another new JTRIG document, in full, entitled The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations.
SNIP...
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: false flag operations (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting negative information on various forums. Here is one illustrative list of tactics from the latest GCHQ document were publishing today:

SNIP...
No matter your views on Anonymous, hacktivists or garden-variety criminals, it is not difficult to see how dangerous it is to have secret government agencies being able to target any individuals they want who have never been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes with these sorts of online, deception-based tactics of reputation destruction and disruption. There is a strong argument to make, as Jay Leiderman demonstrated in the Guardian in the context of the Paypal 14 hacktivist persecution, that the denial of service tactics used by hacktivists result in (at most) trivial damage (far less than the cyber-warfare tactics favored by the US and UK) and are far more akin to the type of political protest protected by the First Amendment.
CONTINUED w/links, sources, details...
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Something I don't believe it did that when I first found it......The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, which passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, seems to have legalized the formerly illegal Operation MOCKINGBIRD in the name of national security post-9/11. Here's a little more of the story:
US Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News to Americans
by John Hudson
Foreign Policy, July 14, 2013
EXCERPT...
"They don't shy away from stories that don't shed the best light on the United States," she told The Cable. She pointed to the charters of VOA and RFE: "Our journalists provide what many people cannot get locally: uncensored news, responsible discussion, and open debate."
A former U.S. government source with knowledge of the BBG says the organization is no Pravda, but it does advance U.S. interests in more subtle ways. In Somalia, for instance, VOA serves as counterprogramming to outlets peddling anti-American or jihadist sentiment. "Somalis have three options for news," the source said, "word of mouth, al-Shabab, or VOA Somalia."
This partially explains the push to allow BBG broadcasts on local radio stations in the United States. The agency wants to reach diaspora communities, such as St. Paul, Minnesota's significant Somali expat community. "Those people can get al-Shabab, they can get Russia Today, but they couldn't get access to their taxpayer-funded news sources like VOA Somalia," the source said. "It was silly."
Lynne added that the reform has a transparency benefit as well. "Now Americans will be able to know more about what they are paying for with their tax dollars -- greater transparency is a win-win for all involved," she said. And so with that we have the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, which passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, and went into effect this month.
But if anyone needed a reminder of the dangers of domestic propaganda efforts, the past 12 months provided ample reasons. Last year, two USA Today journalists were ensnared in a propaganda campaign after reporting about millions of dollars in back taxes owed by the Pentagon's top propaganda contractor in Afghanistan. Eventually, one of the co-owners of the firm confessed to creating phony websites and Twitter accounts to smear the journalists anonymously. Additionally, just this month, the Washington Post exposed a counter-propaganda program by the Pentagon that recommended posting comments on a U.S. website run by a Somali expat with readers opposing al-Shabab. "Today, the military is more focused on manipulating news and commentary on the Internet, especially social media, by posting material and images without necessarily claiming ownership," reported the Post.
But for BBG officials, the references to Pentagon propaganda efforts are nauseating, particularly because the Smith-Mundt Act never had anything to do with regulating the Pentagon, a fact that was misunderstood in media reports in the run-up to the passage of new Smith-Mundt reforms in January.
[font color="red"]One example included a report by the late BuzzFeed reporter Michael Hastings, who suggested that the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act would open the door to Pentagon propaganda of U.S. audiences. In fact, as amended in 1987, the act only covers portions of the State Department engaged in public diplomacy abroad (i.e. the public diplomacy section of the "R" bureau, and the Broadcasting Board of Governors.)[/font color]
CONTINUED...
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_off_propaganda_ban_spreads_government_made_news_to_americans
Here's another source with the complete article:
http://www.alipac.us/f12/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-americans-283470/
So, there's that.

How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations
By Glenn Greenwald
The Intercept, 24 Feb 2014
One of the many pressing stories that remains to be told from the Snowden archive is how western intelligence agencies are attempting to manipulate and control online discourse with extreme tactics of deception and reputation-destruction. Its time to tell a chunk of that story, complete with the relevant documents.
Over the last several weeks, I worked with NBC News to publish a series of articles about dirty trick tactics used by GCHQs previously secret unit, JTRIG (Joint Threat Research Intelligence Group). These were based on four classified GCHQ documents presented to the NSA and the other three partners in the English-speaking Five Eyes alliance. Today, we at the Intercept are publishing another new JTRIG document, in full, entitled The Art of Deception: Training for Online Covert Operations.
SNIP...
Among the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: false flag operations (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting negative information on various forums. Here is one illustrative list of tactics from the latest GCHQ document were publishing today:

SNIP...
No matter your views on Anonymous, hacktivists or garden-variety criminals, it is not difficult to see how dangerous it is to have secret government agencies being able to target any individuals they want who have never been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes with these sorts of online, deception-based tactics of reputation destruction and disruption. There is a strong argument to make, as Jay Leiderman demonstrated in the Guardian in the context of the Paypal 14 hacktivist persecution, that the denial of service tactics used by hacktivists result in (at most) trivial damage (far less than the cyber-warfare tactics favored by the US and UK) and are far more akin to the type of political protest protected by the First Amendment.
CONTINUED w/links, sources, details...
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
Something I don't believe it did that when I first found it......The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, which passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, seems to have legalized the formerly illegal Operation MOCKINGBIRD in the name of national security post-9/11. Here's a little more of the story:
US Repeals Propaganda Ban, Spreads Government-Made News to Americans
by John Hudson
Foreign Policy, July 14, 2013
EXCERPT...
"They don't shy away from stories that don't shed the best light on the United States," she told The Cable. She pointed to the charters of VOA and RFE: "Our journalists provide what many people cannot get locally: uncensored news, responsible discussion, and open debate."
A former U.S. government source with knowledge of the BBG says the organization is no Pravda, but it does advance U.S. interests in more subtle ways. In Somalia, for instance, VOA serves as counterprogramming to outlets peddling anti-American or jihadist sentiment. "Somalis have three options for news," the source said, "word of mouth, al-Shabab, or VOA Somalia."
This partially explains the push to allow BBG broadcasts on local radio stations in the United States. The agency wants to reach diaspora communities, such as St. Paul, Minnesota's significant Somali expat community. "Those people can get al-Shabab, they can get Russia Today, but they couldn't get access to their taxpayer-funded news sources like VOA Somalia," the source said. "It was silly."
Lynne added that the reform has a transparency benefit as well. "Now Americans will be able to know more about what they are paying for with their tax dollars -- greater transparency is a win-win for all involved," she said. And so with that we have the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, which passed as part of the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act, and went into effect this month.
But if anyone needed a reminder of the dangers of domestic propaganda efforts, the past 12 months provided ample reasons. Last year, two USA Today journalists were ensnared in a propaganda campaign after reporting about millions of dollars in back taxes owed by the Pentagon's top propaganda contractor in Afghanistan. Eventually, one of the co-owners of the firm confessed to creating phony websites and Twitter accounts to smear the journalists anonymously. Additionally, just this month, the Washington Post exposed a counter-propaganda program by the Pentagon that recommended posting comments on a U.S. website run by a Somali expat with readers opposing al-Shabab. "Today, the military is more focused on manipulating news and commentary on the Internet, especially social media, by posting material and images without necessarily claiming ownership," reported the Post.
But for BBG officials, the references to Pentagon propaganda efforts are nauseating, particularly because the Smith-Mundt Act never had anything to do with regulating the Pentagon, a fact that was misunderstood in media reports in the run-up to the passage of new Smith-Mundt reforms in January.
[font color="red"]One example included a report by the late BuzzFeed reporter Michael Hastings, who suggested that the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act would open the door to Pentagon propaganda of U.S. audiences. In fact, as amended in 1987, the act only covers portions of the State Department engaged in public diplomacy abroad (i.e. the public diplomacy section of the "R" bureau, and the Broadcasting Board of Governors.)[/font color]
CONTINUED...
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/12/us_backs_off_propaganda_ban_spreads_government_made_news_to_americans
Here's another source with the complete article:
http://www.alipac.us/f12/u-s-repeals-propaganda-ban-spreads-government-made-news-americans-283470/
So, there's that.
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Does ANYONE here SERIOUSLY believe that DU is full of paid trolls? [View all]
Douglas Carpenter
Jan 2015
OP
Some try to come here, but I do think we have a pretty good system of weeding them out
hlthe2b
Jan 2015
#2
I received an offer to post on Mitt Romney's blog to cause confusion and doubt in 2012.
Major Hogwash
Jan 2015
#164
several years ago before baggers had their "twitter training camps" there were craigslist ads asking
Sunlei
Jan 2015
#219
I don't think they are paid for it, but yeah and I don't think they are working for the candidates.
Autumn
Jan 2015
#3
Jeebus, I come back from my agency's mandatory holiday break to this crap thread?
msanthrope
Jan 2015
#12
It isn't pleasant to be called a paid shill when you're a supporter...tell them you 'work' for free!
Sunlei
Jan 2015
#222
Sweet, could you come over to my cube and finish this engineering documentation?
snooper2
Jan 2015
#186
Thank you for the source. Anyone who doesn't consider this at least a possibility
canoeist52
Jan 2015
#32
It would be foolish not to think that there are people here that are paid to stir the pot
notadmblnd
Jan 2015
#30
Paid by ALEC callers call into all radio shows, read the same script over and over
randys1
Jan 2015
#33
I suggest to google "propaganda" and read a little how well that concept works today.
Sunlei
Jan 2015
#220
it's a website where people post. Of COURSE there are trolls. But paid trolls?
KittyWampus
Jan 2015
#62
When issues pretty much settled in the democratic party, like women's rights or
applegrove
Jan 2015
#66
Yeah, that actually explains some otherwise inexplicable shit around here.
Warren DeMontague
Jan 2015
#95
Of course not...it's just what people want to believe when they can't beat an argument.
ileus
Jan 2015
#80
Probably not. But, if they're making more than a dollar a week, they're overpaid.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jan 2015
#84
I must say, the results so far slightly disappoint me. I wish people could see that people simply
Douglas Carpenter
Jan 2015
#88
I think it is batshit crazy to believe people hold different opinions because they are paid to. This
Douglas Carpenter
Jan 2015
#168
Both can exist you know. There are people on here who simply disagree. There are some on here
liberal_at_heart
Jan 2015
#177
o you then believe that people who disagree with your initial premise are not "simply disagreeing"?
LanternWaste
Jan 2015
#214
I have more of an issue with people not being transparent about who they work for.
Starry Messenger
Jan 2015
#89
I suspect there are almost as many reasons for posting on DU as there are DUers
petronius
Jan 2015
#92
well Mr. Wolf, Could you kindly direct me to a progressive group that would pay me to swing DU
Douglas Carpenter
Jan 2015
#169
I don't think your attempt at what you thought was a push poll worked out the way you thought. nt.
Warren Stupidity
Jan 2015
#100
why do you think I was attempting a push pole?. Do you SERIOUSLY believe that there are several paid
Douglas Carpenter
Jan 2015
#184
To believe there are paid trolls, one would need to believe there's a reason to have them...
brooklynite
Jan 2015
#111
Full? No. Are there some very prominent, very vocal, very anti-Democrat ones here?
LadyHawkAZ
Jan 2015
#147
Must be, because I've lost count of how many times I've been accused of being one...
Blue_Tires
Jan 2015
#157
No, and DU is one of the few places on the internet we can have a real discussion.
chrisa
Jan 2015
#192
I have always thought we should be PAID for our information collected online. :)
Sunlei
Jan 2015
#218
I think there are more who are not honest about their personal motives for posting what they post
Bluenorthwest
Jan 2015
#195
Only the people that take this site (and themselves) too seriously... n/t
leeroysphitz
Jan 2015
#201