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Yorktown

(2,884 posts)

169. Ukraine's brown shirts don't mean much

Fri Feb 13, 2015, 02:36 AM

Feb 2015

They are mostly an echo of the distant past. Namely: the Soviets created a massive famine (the Holomodor) by forcibly requisitioning all grains, including the seeds for the next harvest. 10 million died.

The Ukrainian nationalists end 1940 and early 1941 tried to associate with Hitler to break free from the Soviets they hated. Double bad move: bad morally, and Hitler imprisoned them as soon as Fall 1941 anyway. But one of their leaders (Stepan Bandera) retains the aura of a bad boy Joan of Arc, the guy who stood up to the Russians.

So a good deal of the nazi paraphernalia in Ukraine is a kind of folk worship of the nationalists of yesteryear. But it's true Ukraine also has its share of skinheads who like nazi symbols like any European far right movement does.

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Robert Parry: NYT Whites Out Ukraine’s Brown Shirts [View all] Karmadillo Feb 2015 OP

More likely, Parry is biased and thus everyone else appears biased who disagrees with him. nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #1

Does he have rabies? He's practically foaming at the mouth. randome Feb 2015 #2

Yep. nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #7

Foaming? RobertEarl Feb 2015 #40

your back where have you been! snooper2 Feb 2015 #174

I once held an Alka-Seltzer tablet in my mouth to try and get out of class. Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #111

It's ironic Aerows Feb 2015 #113

Have you noticed the lack of content in the comments of the personal attackers? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #121

It's ridiculous Aerows Feb 2015 #139

I think it is more a case of lack of hearts snooper2 Feb 2015 #175

Really, so reporting on facts from one of the best journalists, who has been proven to be correct sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #114

More likely, you don't know what a journalist does, stevenleser. Octafish Feb 2015 #5

You're still engaging in the immature practice of using the persons DU name in the subject I see stevenleser Feb 2015 #6

Thanks for the reply. I won't count on stevenleser to fight fascism. Octafish Feb 2015 #11

You can mount a horse, brandish a lance and charge at windmills, but your not fighting dragons stevenleser Feb 2015 #12

Like I care what you think about me. You say you're a pundit... Octafish Feb 2015 #13

What I think about you is not at issue. The fact is that posting on DU is not 'fighting fascism' stevenleser Feb 2015 #36

You owe Octafish an apology, Steven Lesser of DU zappaman Feb 2015 #38

Octafish does fight fascism RobertEarl Feb 2015 #41

LOL. With pronouncements like that, I wonder at what point phrases like "Delusions of grandeur" stevenleser Feb 2015 #42

"Delusions of grandeur" ... polly7 Feb 2015 #77

What are you fighting, or not fighting? It would be instructive for us on DU when one DUer sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #112

Well said Aerows Feb 2015 #116

Well we all know your thoughts on another DUer. What did Parry get wrong regarding the NYT? sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #123

I'll ask you the same question I asked Steven Lesser. When you choose to personally attack another sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #119

I've seen little Aerows Feb 2015 #126

Did you protest the invasion of Iraq? polly7 Feb 2015 #78

Hey be nice, you know he has been to a conference or two snooper2 Feb 2015 #176

I beg to differ on the "Posting on DU is not 'fighting fascism'" comment btrflykng9 Feb 2015 #184

This message was self-deleted by its author bahrbearian Feb 2015 #18

That's the future of journalism, all right. Octafish Feb 2015 #27

Your opinion of journalism is meaningless since you don't know the first thing about it. nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #39

You ARE only speaking for yourself I hope. Octafish is one of DU's most treasured members, always sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #60

o.m.g. 2banon Feb 2015 #64

I know what you mean! OMG is right ... I wonder how many DUers would be here sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #157

I have to admit, I think I have a crush on Octafish..:) 2banon Feb 2015 #158

I think a lot of people would agree with you, 2banon! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #160

Indeed. BTW, I'm really feeling quite jealous of all your hearts! :D 2banon Feb 2015 #161

I got them from Putin!! Lol! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #163

"I got them from Putin!! " Ramses Feb 2015 #166

Yes! Bizarro Land! It's like taking a ride in the way back machine, and unbelievably Red Baiting is 2banon Feb 2015 #167

Ok, that was funny!!! polly7 Feb 2015 #170

'From Russia With Love'! Lol! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #180

You got flowers from Hussein?!? polly7 Feb 2015 #185

Ahhh, Was That You??? 2banon Feb 2015 #164

You have other admirers also. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #165

Thanks! 2banon Feb 2015 #168

Wow ............. wtf? polly7 Feb 2015 #70

Way beyond decent conversation Aerows Feb 2015 #98

Me either. Octafish brings so much good information to this board, polly7 Feb 2015 #99

That's the conclusion I came to. Aerows Feb 2015 #101

You're right, Aerows. polly7 Feb 2015 #103

Glad you are back, Polly Aerows Feb 2015 #104

Thanks, Aerows. I just decided I'm not going to let anyone try to define polly7 Feb 2015 #106

Nor should you Aerows Feb 2015 #108

You rock, Aerows! polly7 Feb 2015 #109

I can! sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #177

You're kidding right? He's been following me all over DU being nasty stevenleser Feb 2015 #178

If by "being nasty" Aerows Feb 2015 #179

Your conduct in this thread Aerows Feb 2015 #88

your alert failed L0oniX Feb 2015 #93

Surely someone has stolen your login and is posting under your name. Karmadillo Feb 2015 #94

This is what being on Fox can do to someone. L0oniX Feb 2015 #95

No kidding, L0oniX. n/t Aerows Feb 2015 #105

I'm baffled by his behavior Aerows Feb 2015 #107

absolutely clueless. 2banon Feb 2015 #68

I can't fathom it, 2banon. Aerows Feb 2015 #110

and to learn that he actually alerted on O.F.! LOL! 2banon Feb 2015 #162

or what they used to do, anyway. reddread Feb 2015 #81

Please enlighten us about the Azov Battalion. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2015 #8

Please enlighten us about right wing elements in militaries and militias in Russia and elsewhere nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #9

Somewhat irrelevant since it's not the Russian right wing elements we're $upporting. Karmadillo Feb 2015 #20

It's completely relevant. Some folks here, like you, only care that right wing elements tend to stevenleser Feb 2015 #37

Blackwater may be in Ukraine JonLP24 Feb 2015 #44

And they are an excellent example of what I am talking about. Go to the US, to Russia, to Iran, etc. stevenleser Feb 2015 #46

If you say so JonLP24 Feb 2015 #48

That's just dumb MFrohike Feb 2015 #55

Nope, it's exactly right and more flagrant in this situation because Russia, who they are advocating stevenleser Feb 2015 #57

Is that a fact? MFrohike Feb 2015 #58

Yep, further explained in my #56 below. nt stevenleser Feb 2015 #59

Dumbest shit I ever read MFrohike Feb 2015 #61

indeed. well said. 2banon Feb 2015 #66

+100 ND-Dem Feb 2015 #69

+1000. nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #72

^^^this^^^ L0oniX Feb 2015 #96

Yep, summed it up nicely. n/t Aerows Feb 2015 #147

Well said, MFrohike. And just a reminder, we do have 'allies' who have committed genocide sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #182

Blackwater is paid for their war crimes with our tax dollars. THAT is what makes something sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #173

'why the focus on Ukr.' Good question, why were US Senators and State Dept neocons so focused on Ukr sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #124

So much hot air. You must be able to float to work. Karmadillo Feb 2015 #49

You could prove me wrong. Link to your complaints about right wing militias in Greece or Iran stevenleser Feb 2015 #50

Link to your complaints about child slavery in the chocolate industry. But you Karmadillo Feb 2015 #51

That comparison would be relevant if I was complaining about that. You are complaining about stevenleser Feb 2015 #52

Conveniently ignore fascism elsewhere? Wrong, as usual. Karmadillo Feb 2015 #54

Nope, I'm right as usual, you just further proved my point upthread. stevenleser Feb 2015 #56

Poor you. I'll see your Orwell and raise you Jung. Karmadillo Feb 2015 #80

I'm pretty certain Aerows Feb 2015 #86

Why are you defending the murdering fascists in Ukraine? nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #76

Have you ever posted a thread on those issues? THIS thread is about sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #181

It's obvious you're not one of those in eastern Unkraine losing family members polly7 Feb 2015 #71

With you right there Aerows Feb 2015 #140

Neo Nazi right wing elements are part of the Kiev Government. The US should NOT be sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #62

You've got to be kidding. polly7 Feb 2015 #79

Oh, dodging the question Aerows Feb 2015 #133

Parry is correct, as he was when the NYT was working for the neocons to start the Iraq War. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #10

nt? G_j Feb 2015 #129

The New York Times has ignored NAZI presence in CIA, Pentagon, etc. Octafish Feb 2015 #3

KnR for Truth in analysis. 2banon Feb 2015 #4

Who exactly is governing Ukraine? JonLP24 Feb 2015 #14

I see no evidence that the NYT deliberately omitted anything. MineralMan Feb 2015 #15

Do the reports Parry cites from the Telegraph and NBC news also originate in Moscow? Karmadillo Feb 2015 #21

Its been backed up and verified elsewhere several times over JonLP24 Feb 2015 #22

I do, but then I've been following the story. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #43

You realize, of course, that your post RE: origin of Parry's information Maedhros Feb 2015 #127

That is a slam dunk Aerows Feb 2015 #146

MM, I respect you Aerows Feb 2015 #137

Which is why the Brian Williams lie is such a joke malaise Feb 2015 #16

Parry. LOL...nt SidDithers Feb 2015 #17

Muffins. Yummy...nt. I want more. Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #23

Thanks for your contribution as always...nt elias49 Feb 2015 #31

It's not Parry that matters. It's his reporting. And that is factual. Octafish Feb 2015 #19

As is almost always the case, his case is unimpeachable in terms of the facts, but BHO apologists stupidicus Feb 2015 #24

I don't think they are BHO apologists. grasswire Feb 2015 #65

OMG. Thought I was the only one. They gave me a very unsettled feeling. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #73

I did believe they were were Obama cult for a long time. grasswire Feb 2015 #97

It's pretty obvious Aerows Feb 2015 #142

the question must be, then, to what end? grasswire Feb 2015 #145

Knee jerk reaction, maybe Aerows Feb 2015 #148

As do I. nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #75

+1 reddread Feb 2015 #82

As usual, grasswire Aerows Feb 2015 #85

yea G_j Feb 2015 #132

Incredibly consistent, too Aerows Feb 2015 #138

They could'nt care less about Obama Ramses Feb 2015 #153

let's see.. grasswire Feb 2015 #154

there may be some merit to that stupidicus Feb 2015 #172

I guess I shouldnt believe my lying eyes Ramses Feb 2015 #25

Some American soldiers display the Confederate Flag on their uniforms, equipment, etc.... George II Feb 2015 #26

Maybe it means they wish they were... elias49 Feb 2015 #29

No but one side is clearly mostly far right nationalistic (East) JonLP24 Feb 2015 #30

I only saw one. And it was in a barracks room, not a uniform. Fuddnik Feb 2015 #34

If we're making a fair comparison, what are the militia folks like in the US? Are they progressives? stevenleser Feb 2015 #45

Precisely - this is a frightening list below: George II Feb 2015 #47

Thank you. Robert Parry most certainly matters! n/t Judi Lynn Feb 2015 #28

No surprise the NYT is pushing the latest neocon propaganda Oilwellian Feb 2015 #32

and we're going to. BHO is asking for a vote on war powers. ND-Dem Feb 2015 #74

kick. Thanks for posting and a great thread. Some are finally starting to pay Purveyor Feb 2015 #33

K&R Pooka Fey Feb 2015 #35

After his disastrous "reporting" on MH-17 NuclearDem Feb 2015 #53

swing and a miss nt grasswire Feb 2015 #67

no joy in swastikaville. reddread Feb 2015 #83

Aw, that's cute! NuclearDem Feb 2015 #87

no, odd leap there reddread Feb 2015 #89

Yep, people who despise fascist Kremlin stooges NuclearDem Feb 2015 #90

can you find the neo-NAZI element? reddread Feb 2015 #91

This might shock you, but I'm not in favor of Western or Russian intervention NuclearDem Feb 2015 #92

Here's an idea: rebut the OP. Maedhros Feb 2015 #128

Other posters have done more than enough to show how Parry is useless when it comes to Ukraine. NuclearDem Feb 2015 #131

And another post filled with soft, spongy pablum. Maedhros Feb 2015 #134

I love the smell of napalm Aerows Feb 2015 #143

It doesn't really matter, though, in the long run. Maedhros Feb 2015 #151

I don't know Aerows Feb 2015 #152

yep grasswire Feb 2015 #155

I've noticed that as well. Maedhros Feb 2015 #156

Maybe it's just tradition over there jakeXT Feb 2015 #63

Well well well, what have we here? Oilwellian Feb 2015 #84

So...Parry again uses pure Moscow propaganda Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #100

I disagree. n/t Aerows Feb 2015 #102

Yeah ....... me too. polly7 Feb 2015 #118

When propoganda meets propoganda... NCTraveler Feb 2015 #115

It strikes me as Aerows Feb 2015 #117

I really think Hong Kong is also worth a mention or five. nt. NCTraveler Feb 2015 #120

Meanwhile here's an inconvenient truth certain DUers keep ignoring: Blue_Tires Feb 2015 #122

The NYT was a propaganda arm for the neocons in their quest for War in Iraq. Parry gets it right sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #125

That's because indignation is all they've got. Maedhros Feb 2015 #130

I think we are Aerows Feb 2015 #135

I urge liberal use of the Ignore function for posters who lack the basic capacity Maedhros Feb 2015 #136

Yes, they would never have survived on DU in the past. The reason they don't like Parry is sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #183

Yes, .......... again. polly7 Feb 2015 #186

David Talbot of Salon talked about a famous reporter at New York Times who was an 'Ex-NAZI.' Octafish Feb 2015 #141

thank you nt grasswire Feb 2015 #144

Octafish, you are a gem Aerows Feb 2015 #149

I keep wondering why the NYT ever got its reputation as a credible news organization. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #159

Great thread Aerows Feb 2015 #150

Yessireee .......... kick for Robert Parry! nt. polly7 Feb 2015 #171

Ukraine's brown shirts don't mean much Yorktown Feb 2015 #169