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JonLP24

(29,712 posts)
77. He also shot down Operation Northwoods
Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:01 AM
Feb 2015

He clearly had a different view on foreign policy than the Kennedy administration may have wanted. It is remarkable how conservative everyone was after him now while LBJ had some progressive initiatives, he also once called Harry Truman's civil rights proposal from his Committee of Civil Rights (independent, fact-finding, cut-the-BS, committees) is why Harry Truman even became a national figure enough so to reach FDR's radar by-the-time he was weighing his VP pick using terms like "sadistic" and "murder" (for imposing an anti-lynching law on Southern states who already have murder on books and taking the position Southern States should have the right to have a poll tax or not -- state's rights). It is hard to say what influence over his policies or what policies he really favored but by all accounts he was an expert on politics. As VP, he clearly tried to assert influence pushing civil rights & great progressive ref, many of the things Truman started was fulfilled, especially the economic policies designed to counter the under-consumption as a result of trickle-down economics that doomed the Great Depression. It also was during a time which was the peak for this kind of thing, now TANF is so politically unpopular pretty much single parent families

On foreign policy he favored things the executive agencies did, all with communists (now replaced with terrorists) as a cover. Also when it comes to domestic policy as well.


Operation CHAOS or Operation MHCHAOS was the code name for a domestic espionage project conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency. A department within the CIA was established in 1967 on orders from President of the United States Lyndon B. Johnson and later expanded under President Richard Nixon. The operation was launched under Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) Richard Helms, by chief of counter-intelligence, James Jesus Angleton, and headed by Richard Ober. The program's goal was to unmask possible foreign influences on the student antiwar movement.[1][2] The "MH" designation is to signify the program had a worldwide area of operations.[3]

When President Nixon came to office in 1969, existing domestic surveillance activities were consolidated into Operation CHAOS.[5] Operation CHAOS first used CIA stations abroad to report on antiwar activities of United States citizens traveling abroad, employing methods such as physical surveillance and electronic eavesdropping, utilizing "liaison services" in maintaining such surveillance. The operations were later expanded to include 60 officers.[3] In 1969, following the expansion, the operation began developing its own network of informants for the purposes of infiltrating various foreign antiwar groups located in foreign countries that might have ties to domestic groups.[2] Eventually, CIA officers expanded the program to include other leftist or counter-cultural groups with no discernible connection to Vietnam, such as groups operating within the women's liberation movement.[1] The domestic spying of Operation CHAOS also targeted the Israeli embassy, and domestic Jewish groups such as the B'nai B'rith. In order to gather intelligence on the embassy and B'nai B'rith, the CIA purchased a garbage collection company to collect documents that were to be destroyed.[6]

Targets of Operation CHAOS within the antiwar movement included:[5]

Students for a Democratic Society
Black Panther Party
Women Strike for Peace
Ramparts Magazine[7]

Officially, reports were to be compiled on "illegal and subversive" contacts between United States civilian protesters and "foreign elements" which "might range from casual contacts based merely on mutual interest to closely controlled channels for party directives." At its finality, Operation CHAOS contained files on 7,200 Americans, and a computer index totaling 300,000 civilians and approximately 1,000 groups.[8] The initial result of investigations lead DCI Richard Helms to advise then President Johnson on November 15, 1967, that the agency had uncovered "no evidence of any contact between the most prominent peace movement leaders and foreign embassies in the U.S. or abroad." Helms repeated this assessment in 1969.[1] In total 6 reports where compiled for the White House and 34 for cabinet level officials.[2]

In 1973, amid the uproar of the Watergate break-in, involving two former CIA officers, Operation CHAOS was closed.[4] The secret nature of the former program however was exposed in 1974 when Seymour Hersh published an article in the New York Times titled Huge CIA Operation Reported in US Against Antiwar Forces, Other Dissidents in Nixon Years.[1][9] The following year, further details were revealed during Representative Bella Abzug's House Subcommittee on Government Information and individual Rights.[3] The government, in response to the revelations, launched the Commission on CIA Activities Within the United States (The Rockefeller Commission), led by then Vice President Nelson Rockefeller, to the depth of the surveillance.[1] "Dick" Richard Cheney, then Deputy White House Chief of Staff, is noted as stating of the Rockefeller Commission; it was to avoid " ... congressional efforts to further encroach on the executive branch."[1]

Following the revelations by the Rockefeller Commission, then-DCI George H. W. Bush admitted that "the operation in practice resulted in some improper accumulation of material on legitimate domestic activities."[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHAOS

Obviously, wild speculation would fill in the blanks but I notice it is interesting the executive branch spying/law enforcement agencies foreign policy has basically been continued & expanded ever since. I'm very unfamiliar with Jimmy Carter as far as Presidents since Woodrow Wilson (the start of the J Edgar Hoover war against the left) goes so I can't really say, it feels like he was sabotaged with the lifting the standard & Saudi Arabia using oil as political weapon after years of selling it cheaper than Cola, I'm not sure why the easiest hostage demands of all-time took so long (except saving face) & whoever decided to resolve the embargo by trading weapons for oil was either a mistake that will haunt us for generations or a brilliant idea from a greedy sociopath, connected with Department of Defense war profiteers.

Every President since. Clinton campaigned on free trade & welfare reform, no surprise there. He also expanded on the role set for him regarding Europe by Bush/Reagan & expanding NATO to the point of a unilateral bombing campaign but mainly picking a side. It is clear Obama was different, at-first or something set him apart. He indicated priorities for Africa which his predecessors ignored (with the exception of the Somolia civil war which privacy followed -- huge shipments obviously heading to Saudi Arabia or Qatar-Kuwait enough of a concern for foreign powers), middle east -- his "Cairo speech", his day 1 memo suggesting things should not be kept disclosed for a variety of reasons mentioned one of them "subjective fears" then to use "subjective fears" to block torture photos but everything since. One week after releasing the torture memos which caused a lot of their fierce opposers to pat themselves on the back. The same press conference where Gibbs indicates the intended legal action by the Obama administration he legitimizes "enhanced interogation techjniques"

QUESTION: This new argument -- if you’re saying, basically, that this could put troops in further harm’s way in Iraq and Afghanistan, Former Vice President Cheney, General Hayden, others have made the same argument about releasing the so-called torture memos. Do you have any regrets about putting those memos out? They’ve made the same argument about them?

GIBBS: No. Well, I’ll use the example I’ve used on this before, Ed. You didn’t begin to report on enhanced interrogation techniques at the release of the OLC memos, did you?

QUESTION: No.

GIBBS: OK. The -- I’m saying...

QUESTION: (Inaudible)

GIBBS: Hold on. I’m also sensing that the graphic that CNN uses to denote what happens when somebody gets waterboarded wasn’t likely developed based on reading memos that were released three weeks ago. The existence of enhanced interrogation techniques were noted by the former administration in speeches that they gave. You read about the enhanced interrogation techniques in autobiographies written by members of that former administration. The notion...

http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php/102-organizers/kevin-gosztola/5586-obama-employs-bush-administration-tactic-to-halt-release-of-detainee-photos

That was basically the beginning of the end. They "save lives", he defends the tortures, embraces John Breenan to the point where Obama allows him the freedom to carry out these "secret (kill) order"s without checking with him first. So much was made of his team of rivals but he basically have someone who was on the board of directors for banks & oil as the guy giving him advice on military foreign policy. It is remarkable how difficult it has been just to be able to confirm who he has, the hold-ups have been ridiculous and McCain obsessing over "the surge" during questioning was ridiculous. All I did was transport cargo but I was in Iraq 2006-2007. One thing I noticed before & after was the violence, weapons (2 times from "the surge" to July) a truck was hit with an EFP, one hit the engine block, the other the passenger. We lucked out since we were combined in a task force with Navy, Air Force, National Guard that we just did the 12 month. THe 2nd EFP hit one of our trucks in the last month. I couldn't imagine 3 more months of that. Before that was just roadside bombs or small arms fire which is basically harmless to a M915A2 (different story for TCN vehicles andHummers) with the one complex attack at checkpoints 58-60(outside the walls of Taji) which was a notorious hot spot with daisy chain IEDS near Ramadi a runner-up (both like that before or after "the surge&quot .

Obama's cabin is also scandal-free. However, you also have a continuation of this

Academi continues to provide security services to the United States federal government on a contractual basis. The Obama administration contracted the group to provide services for the CIA for $250 million.[8] In 2013, Academi subsidiary International Development Solutions received an approximately $92 million contract for State Department security guards.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi

Basically, everyone that has a connection to former executive branches (Ashcroft is one) on the board of directors of a private military company receiving defense spending to do something that won't be announced on a press release.

Basically, you get my point. Espionage act & "state secrets", that started with Ashcroft. Indefinite detention & everything else continued, expanded the powers of the executive branch. For someone who criticized Bush over civil liberties & domestic spying, it is remarkable he now uses their arguments.

Like I said, a role, a foreign policy & domestic initiative that was threatened with Kennedy but continued & pushed by every President since LBJ. Leaps were made during the Reagan's & Bush administration only for the Democratic successor to improve on them. I aways wondered Nixon & LBJ taped themselves. Paranoia? Blackmail? or if you knew or were involved in the kind of things they know you'd tape yourself too. Though I wish more would collect evidence on themselves.

Also he continued the whole picking a side in Europe to the point of blaming everything on Russia, protestors were burned in a trade union building by the Right Section and Obama once again blames Russia. Except Right Section are ultra-right wing nationalists

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

JFK made it abundantly clear to many people hifiguy Feb 2015 #1
John F. Kennedy's Vision of Peace Octafish Feb 2015 #25
The CIA Should Be Disbanded. Kennedy got it right. sabrina 1 Feb 2015 #75
Frank Church warned us in 1975 about the secret government and secret power. Octafish Feb 2015 #81
Just think, if this policy had prevailed, I would have missed jaysunb Feb 2015 #2
How many trips did you make a broad? HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #7
LOL ! jaysunb Feb 2015 #10
Yes killing Kommunists for Freedom warrant46 Feb 2015 #22
I'm still conflicted about LBJ jaysunb Feb 2015 #34
Halliburton Deals Recall Vietnam-Era Controversy Octafish Feb 2015 #39
IIRC the second volume of Robert Caro's LBJ biography hifiguy Feb 2015 #53
They are bad, real bad, JonLP24 Feb 2015 #80
Look at foreign policy & domestic spying JonLP24 Feb 2015 #78
Same here brother, same here. GGJohn Feb 2015 #37
No he didn't or he wouldn't have escalated the war like he did during his presidency. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #3
Are you questioning the authenticity of NSAM 263? RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #5
Outstanding post, Rufus! hifiguy Feb 2015 #6
Thanks! And to answer your question: Yes, I have! RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #8
Outstanding book. H2O Man Feb 2015 #17
Yikes! Didn't even know about the Gandhi book RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #24
It didn't get H2O Man Feb 2015 #32
I'm looking forward to reading it. RufusTFirefly Feb 2015 #35
I am not questioning Kennedy's words. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #9
I guess you do not know what back-channels means. Rex Feb 2015 #29
I don't doubt Kennedy tried to find a diplomatic end. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #31
Oh I do completely, by his second term. Rex Feb 2015 #33
Well it's not like Vietnam turned nuclear anyway. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #40
It easily could have, if John Foster Dulles and Allen Dulles had their way. Octafish Feb 2015 #50
Many of those who disagree with you (and me) begin their posts with the words "I believe." That KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #68
+1 n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #70
You're trying to talk facts into this debate YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #63
''This is a sacred cow here. An article of faith among Camelot believers.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #84
Respectfully disagree. H2O Man Feb 2015 #16
I think his decision making in 1963 warrants at least a debate on the matter. Drunken Irishman Feb 2015 #27
Interesting. H2O Man Feb 2015 #42
Remarks of Senator John F. Kennedy on Indochina before the Senate, Washington, D.C., April 6, 1954 Octafish Feb 2015 #44
Excellent ! n/t jaysunb Feb 2015 #72
JFK toured Vietnam in 1951... Octafish Feb 2015 #73
this is one of the reasons heaven05 Feb 2015 #4
Bingo we have a winner! workinclasszero Feb 2015 #19
No, he really didn't Spider Jerusalem Feb 2015 #11
JFK’s Embrace of Third World Nationalists Octafish Feb 2015 #46
The CIA didn't much care for Kennedy. blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #12
Just the bad apples who contracted the Mafia to murder heads of state. Octafish Feb 2015 #38
The George Bush Center for Intelligence is the headquarters of the Central Intelligence Agency blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #13
Pic URL: blkmusclmachine Feb 2015 #14
Meanwhile, in regards to Cuba.... YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #15
Just before his assassination, President Kennedy ordered secret peace talks with Castro Octafish Feb 2015 #49
It can be safely said Castro and Khrushchev were hifiguy Feb 2015 #54
Which is so weird how the evidentiary trail led right to them. Octafish Feb 2015 #55
According to Douglass there were at least two hifiguy Feb 2015 #56
"This is a story that I don't see mentioned very often" YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #61
So when you can't find anything to support your POV, resort to condescension, YoungDemCA. Octafish Feb 2015 #67
This a a good discussion & debate - FairWinds Feb 2015 #18
George H.W. Bush was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963. Octafish Feb 2015 #69
Not to mention JFK was also going to obliterate the CIA 99th_Monkey Feb 2015 #20
JFK famously said after the Bay of Pigs hifiguy Feb 2015 #28
Back channel negotiations with Khrushchev. roamer65 Feb 2015 #21
Secret Government is why the pendulum won't swing back. Octafish Feb 2015 #52
All due respect, but the verdict of professional historians who have examined the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #23
JFK would have pulled the plug on it. roamer65 Feb 2015 #58
John M. Newman, in ''JFK and Vietnam'' documented the sordid history. Octafish Feb 2015 #71
Since your extract mentions Kaiser's "American Tragedy" in its final paragraph, it is KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #76
Not a thesis. It's what the documentary record shows. Octafish Feb 2015 #82
We are now come full circle. If JFK was being fed info that led hiim to believe the KingCharlemagne Feb 2015 #85
So Oliver Stone was right. That's what he said after his movie JFK came out. nt Damansarajaya Feb 2015 #26
lol. nt BootinUp Feb 2015 #47
''I will never send draftees over there to fight.'' Octafish Feb 2015 #48
He wanted a complete withdraw, but the MICIA said no way. Rex Feb 2015 #30
JFK would never fall for phony intel like Gulf of Tonkin. Octafish Feb 2015 #74
I have tried to get folks to view "Evidence of Revision" 1-6 on YouTube. kelliekat44 Feb 2015 #36
Thank you, kelliekat44! Octafish Feb 2015 #83
That's probably why the Fascists killed him. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #41
Agreed, Almost Certainly colsohlibgal Feb 2015 #43
The evidence that Oswald was "just a patsy" is undeniable. Enthusiast Feb 2015 #51
I remember seeing the clip where Oswald makes the "patsy" statement. hifiguy Feb 2015 #57
Better yet, look up the video of Jack Ruby saying "If Adlai Stevenson had been VP..." N/t roamer65 Feb 2015 #59
I deny it. As does Oswald's brother, for that matter. YoungDemCA Feb 2015 #62
K&R woo me with science Feb 2015 #45
Peter Dale Scott did the yeoman's work on JFK and Vietnam issue. Octafish Feb 2015 #86
November 22, 1963 was a coup d'état masked by an assassination...plain and simple. roamer65 Feb 2015 #60
JFK knew what he was getting into in Dallas. He had survived an attempt in Chicago... Octafish Feb 2015 #89
I have always suspected JFK was killed for his opposition to that war. Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #64
Kennedy had too much potential to help the common people. There is even a rumor that he was dissentient Feb 2015 #65
Flying Saucer bullshit began in 1947, with the hallucinating "pilot" Kenneth Arnold Special Prosciuto Feb 2015 #66
He also shot down Operation Northwoods JonLP24 Feb 2015 #77
John Aschcroft stopped flying commercial airliners in July 2001 based on a 'threat assessment.' Octafish Feb 2015 #87
I was actually looking up black market nuclear history as well as overall nuclear history JonLP24 Feb 2015 #90
We really don't know what JFK would've done with Vietnam. He didn't want to make a decision until craigmatic Feb 2015 #79
At this point madville Feb 2015 #88
Interesting thread. K&R nt Electric Monk Feb 2015 #91
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