President Kennedy wanted to keep USA out of Vietnam

[KingCharlemagne]

85. We are now come full circle. If JFK was being fed info that led hiim to believe the

war was not an incipient disaster, then why was he (according to your thesis) so hell-bent on withdrawing all U.S. military personnel from Vietnam?

There are 3 possibilities in the decision tree faced by JFK (at least as I read it):

1) The situation is an incipient disaster, such that no amount of American aid or manpower can rescue it. A decision to withdraw under such a scenario would only be prudent. (But so also would a decision to escalate with ground troops in the hopes of staving off utter defeat and humiliation, the path LBJ ultimately chooses.)

2) The situation is going passably well. Sure, the generals who have replaced Diem are a particularly nasty lot, but they have bought sufficient time for the U.S. to 'stay the course,' neither withdrawing precipitously nor escalating. There will be enough time after the 1964 election to decide on next steps.

or

3) The situation is so improved with Diem's overthrow that JFK now feels he can afford to withdraw U.S. advisers completely.

I have chosen scenario #2 - neither planning to withdraw nor to escalate. You, it seems to me, have chosen either scenario #1 or #3, but I'll be darned if I can figure out which. Sometimes I think you lean towards scenario #1 but the passages you present from Newman -- I have not yet read it, but will try to -- suggest scenario #3 (at least as far as JFK's mentality was concerned in early November 1963).

Although Scenario #2 does not depict JFK as the budding peacenik many on this thread would prefer, it suits my reading of Kennedy's personality and governance style which was to procrastinate on dramatic action until events on the ground forced his hand. In the nuclear age, such a deliberative style is vastly to be preferred, imho, over the shoot-from-the-hip mentality of LeMay, Goldwater and others of that stripe, even if it leaves us with a JFK who is not the 'peace-maker' folks on this thread would have him be.

So again: did JFK want to withdraw (your thesis) because iin his mind the war was going so well or because it was going so poorly?

Great debate by the way. Absolutely no disrespect intended to you or your position.