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In reply to the discussion: You can't criticize one pseudoscience when supporting another. [View all]mike_c
(36,792 posts)84. Percy Schmeiser purposefully infringed and Monsanto still did not "act as a bully...."
As established in the original Federal Court trial decision, Percy Schmeiser, a canola breeder and grower in Bruno, Saskatchewan, first discovered Roundup-resistant canola in his crops in 1997. He had used Roundup herbicide to clear weeds around power poles and in ditches adjacent to a public road running beside one of his fields, and noticed that some of the canola which had been sprayed had survived. Schmeiser then performed a test by applying Roundup to an additional 3 acres (12,000 m2) to 4 acres (16,000 m2) of the same field. He found that 60% of the canola plants survived. At harvest time, Schmeiser instructed a farmhand to harvest the test field. That seed was stored separately from the rest of the harvest, and used the next year to seed approximately 1,000 acres (4 km²) of canola.
(This was where Schmeiser intentionally infringed. He deliberately planted 1000 acres of patented seed without paying the license fee. The Canadian Supreme Court agreed. --MC)
(snip)
All claims relating to Roundup Ready canola in Schmeiser's 1997 canola crop were dropped prior to trial and the court only considered the canola in Schmeiser's 1998 fields. Regarding his 1998 crop, Schmeiser did not put forward any defence of accidental contamination. The evidence showed that the level of Roundup Ready canola in Mr. Schmeiser's 1998 fields was 95-98% (See paragraph 53 of the trial ruling). Evidence was presented indicating that such a level of purity could not occur by accidental means. On the basis of this the court found that Schmeiser had either known "or ought to have known" that he had planted Roundup Ready canola in 1998. Given this, the question of whether the canola in his fields in 1997 arrived there accidentally was ruled to be irrelevant. Nonetheless, at trial, Monsanto was able to present evidence sufficient to persuade the Court that Roundup Ready canola had probably not appeared in Schmeiser's 1997 field by such accidental means (paragraph 118[4]). The court said it was persuaded "on the balance of probabilities" (the standard of proof in civil cases, meaning "more probable than not" i.e. strictly greater than 50% probability) that the Roundup Ready canola in Mr. Schmeiser's 1997 field had not arrived there by any of the accidental means, such as spillage from a truck or pollen travelling on the wind, that Mr. Schmeiser had proposed.
(snip)
The Federal Court of Appeal in particular stressed the importance of the finding that Schmeiser had knowingly used the seed, in their decision to find Schmeiser in infringement of the patent, and noted that in a case of accidental contamination or a case where the farmer knew of the presence of the gene but took no action to increase its prevalence in his crop, a different ruling could be possible (see paragraphs 55-58 of the appeal ruling[18]). No damages were assessed against Percy Schmeiser, the private individual. Only Mr. Schmeiser's farming corporation, Schmeiser Enterprises Ltd., was held liable, as Mr. Schmeiser had acted in his capacity as director of the corporation.
(snip)
On May 21, 2004, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in favor of Monsanto. Schmeiser won a partial victory, where the court held that he did not have to pay Monsanto his profits from his 1998 crop, since the presence of the gene in his crops had not afforded him any advantage and he had made no profits on the crop that were attributable to the invention. The amount of profits at stake was relatively small, C$19,832; however, by not having to pay damages, Schmeiser was also saved from having to pay Monsanto's legal bills, which amounted to several hundred thousand dollars and exceeded his own.
(Emphasis added. Note too that Monsanto did NOT go after Schmeiser personally for infringement, although he was clearly personally responsible, but rather sued his CORPORATION, and that even that did not pay any damages in the end. All Monsanto sought to do, and all it did, was protect its patent. It spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so, and received no damages in return, contrary to the horror stories told on many anti-GMO web sites. --MC)
more @link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc_v_Schmeiser
(This was where Schmeiser intentionally infringed. He deliberately planted 1000 acres of patented seed without paying the license fee. The Canadian Supreme Court agreed. --MC)
(snip)
All claims relating to Roundup Ready canola in Schmeiser's 1997 canola crop were dropped prior to trial and the court only considered the canola in Schmeiser's 1998 fields. Regarding his 1998 crop, Schmeiser did not put forward any defence of accidental contamination. The evidence showed that the level of Roundup Ready canola in Mr. Schmeiser's 1998 fields was 95-98% (See paragraph 53 of the trial ruling). Evidence was presented indicating that such a level of purity could not occur by accidental means. On the basis of this the court found that Schmeiser had either known "or ought to have known" that he had planted Roundup Ready canola in 1998. Given this, the question of whether the canola in his fields in 1997 arrived there accidentally was ruled to be irrelevant. Nonetheless, at trial, Monsanto was able to present evidence sufficient to persuade the Court that Roundup Ready canola had probably not appeared in Schmeiser's 1997 field by such accidental means (paragraph 118[4]). The court said it was persuaded "on the balance of probabilities" (the standard of proof in civil cases, meaning "more probable than not" i.e. strictly greater than 50% probability) that the Roundup Ready canola in Mr. Schmeiser's 1997 field had not arrived there by any of the accidental means, such as spillage from a truck or pollen travelling on the wind, that Mr. Schmeiser had proposed.
(snip)
The Federal Court of Appeal in particular stressed the importance of the finding that Schmeiser had knowingly used the seed, in their decision to find Schmeiser in infringement of the patent, and noted that in a case of accidental contamination or a case where the farmer knew of the presence of the gene but took no action to increase its prevalence in his crop, a different ruling could be possible (see paragraphs 55-58 of the appeal ruling[18]). No damages were assessed against Percy Schmeiser, the private individual. Only Mr. Schmeiser's farming corporation, Schmeiser Enterprises Ltd., was held liable, as Mr. Schmeiser had acted in his capacity as director of the corporation.
(snip)
On May 21, 2004, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 in favor of Monsanto. Schmeiser won a partial victory, where the court held that he did not have to pay Monsanto his profits from his 1998 crop, since the presence of the gene in his crops had not afforded him any advantage and he had made no profits on the crop that were attributable to the invention. The amount of profits at stake was relatively small, C$19,832; however, by not having to pay damages, Schmeiser was also saved from having to pay Monsanto's legal bills, which amounted to several hundred thousand dollars and exceeded his own.
(Emphasis added. Note too that Monsanto did NOT go after Schmeiser personally for infringement, although he was clearly personally responsible, but rather sued his CORPORATION, and that even that did not pay any damages in the end. All Monsanto sought to do, and all it did, was protect its patent. It spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to do so, and received no damages in return, contrary to the horror stories told on many anti-GMO web sites. --MC)
more @link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monsanto_Canada_Inc_v_Schmeiser
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I have no issue to call out faulty logic. But a choice to eat Non-GMO food....
LynneSin
Feb 2015
#56
Nonsense. Unlike your 'Popular Science' article, this links to a peer reviewed survey...
immoderate
Feb 2015
#21
Can you cite a long term (more than 90 days) study that demonstrates this harmlessness?
immoderate
Feb 2015
#26
there is overwhelming consensus among scientists and health professionals that GMOs are...
mike_c
Feb 2015
#34
Then you can point me to an independent, long-term study that demonstrates this safety?
immoderate
Feb 2015
#44
LOL! Talk about being obtuse. Which ONE of those says GMOs are safe? Pick the best example.
immoderate
Feb 2015
#66
So, you couldn't find a single study that fulfills my request? Goalpost condition: STABLE
immoderate
Feb 2015
#75
Creationists, science deniers, all of 'em show this kind of nonsense don't they?
alp227
Feb 2015
#130
Fuck.. way to try and ruin a thread if there weren't enough bullshite in the OP to begin with.
Cha
Feb 2015
#100
check out this post on DU and the link to an article on antibiotic resistance...
Sancho
Feb 2015
#190
You not understanding antibiotics and antibiotic resistance does not make for an informative post.
jeff47
Feb 2015
#193
At this point I've provided you scholarly references and quotations refuting your position.
Sancho
Feb 2015
#281
Can you point me to an independent, long-term study that demonstrates organic food is safe?
jeff47
Feb 2015
#57
How would they know? The GMO producers license the seeds and control who can use them in research.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#136
+1. Amazing how some champions of "science" haven't mastered the basic logic it is founded on
GreatGazoo
Feb 2015
#31
Being able to drown your crops in roundup is as important as eradicating smallpox
Chathamization
Feb 2015
#95
NYT: "farmers sprayed so much Roundup that weeds quickly evolved to survive it"
Chathamization
Feb 2015
#214
Dismissing a peer review article in Nature with a blog post? That's only pro-science on opposite day
Chathamization
Feb 2015
#261
So you didn't bother even looking at your first link? And then you call someboday who did a "liar"?
Chathamization
Feb 2015
#264
Dishonesty? Your first link is a blog post criticizing a peer reviewed article from Nature. When I
Chathamization
Feb 2015
#270
Because they demand legistlation that will increase the costs of GMO foods through labeling.
dilby
Feb 2015
#14
Well that's democracy. There are special interests for just about everything
dissentient
Feb 2015
#15
How about requiring companies who don't use GMO's to put a label on their food no GMO?
dilby
Feb 2015
#36
Actually, given that the growth of population on a finite planet is unsustainable
truebluegreen
Feb 2015
#152
You are the one suggesting to compare a farmer's market tomato to a supermarket tomato
metalbot
Feb 2015
#160
And GMO apologists use the same tactics as climate deniers, tobacco lawyers, ... so?
immoderate
Feb 2015
#70
I am not convinced that genetically engineering crops for resisantce to organophosphate herbicides
cheapdate
Feb 2015
#28
I think you make a point...but my issue with GMO's is the disclosure, not the science.
Sancho
Feb 2015
#33
Why do you think only one type of seed development technology should be labeled?
HuckleB
Feb 2015
#208
With today's technology, just about everything should be trackable for any reason...
Sancho
Feb 2015
#256
Your responses on this thread have been all anti-GMO, so don't pretend otherwise.
HuckleB
Feb 2015
#257
My choice to not eat GMO foods will not in anyway jeopardize the health of others around me
LynneSin
Feb 2015
#54
It sucks what happened in your county but still doesn't justify why someone shouldn't vaccinate
LynneSin
Feb 2015
#94
I'd like see a list of those "hundreds of cases in the United States and Canada"
Orrex
Feb 2015
#112
That document won't open for me. Can you summarize any of these hundreds of cases?
Orrex
Feb 2015
#140
Percy Schmeiser purposefully infringed and Monsanto still did not "act as a bully...."
mike_c
Feb 2015
#84
A Chuck Lasker graphic? He's the one who calls Hawaiian farmers, moms, doctors...
countryjake
Feb 2015
#82
Just call me a ******* eco terrorist! I'm on Kauai and we are doing our best to hold monsanto and
Cha
Feb 2015
#123
Thank you for Waging the battle against the Toxic Conglomerate Roundup-Monsanto.. one and the
Cha
Feb 2015
#191
Avoiding GMO's is at worst, simply benign, while the consequences of avoiding vaccinations...
LanternWaste
Feb 2015
#111
SO what countries have outlawed vaccinations? Yeah false equivalency sucks and people call you on it
Rex
Feb 2015
#122
Anti-vaxx = anti-cigarettes. Anti-vaxxx = anti-nuclear power. Anti-vaxx = anti-pesticides.
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#137
What is nonsense is to imply that just because the opponents of vaccines are unjustified,
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#161
In an effort to support GMO's, you have been making what is called an "argument from fallacy."
pnwmom
Feb 2015
#167
Bill Nye the Science guy on GMO's - for a valanced and sesible perspective:
Douglas Carpenter
Feb 2015
#166
Since GMO foods are reducing pesticide use, land use, and dangerous herbicide use...
HuckleB
Feb 2015
#197
Yes, you most certainly can! Most people have blind spots, but that doesn't mean that they should not call out
tblue37
Feb 2015
#213
Whether or not they are, "Round-up ready" means that you eating Glysophate tainted food. Glysophate
bobalew
Feb 2015
#236