General Discussion

R B Garr

(17,413 posts)

127. Excellent posts. Thanks. All of these conspiracy theories

Mon Mar 2, 2015, 09:49 PM

Mar 2015

about the neocons fail to mention that they used 9/11 as cover to go into Iraq. The neocons didn't lie us into war, they lied us into attacking the wrong country. Most polls around 9/11 showed high public support for military intervention after 9/11, which is also something the conspiracy theories fail to mention.

Here's what Bush Sr. said about leaving Saddam in Iraq after Desert Storm. I'm just posting this to show that Bush Jr. used the 9/11 tragedy to correct what the subsequent neocons deemed a mistake for leaving Saddam in power. Bush Jr. had the unique circumstances of 9/11 handed to him to facilitate the neocon agenda. Obviously Bush Sr. didn't share those goals during his administration.

"Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under the circumstances, there was no viable "exit strategy" we could see, violating another of our principles. Furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-Cold War world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the United Nations' mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression that we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the United States could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different — and perhaps barren — outcome."

http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/gulfwar.asp

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Highlight:

The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism (John Pilger) [View all] Octafish Mar 2015 OP

Important DU replies and links to original thread here... Octafish Mar 2015 #1

Pilger HEARTS Fascist Russia. He's a paid liar uhnope Mar 2015 #50

As opposed to Corporate McPravda that helped lie America into illegal wars of aggression? Octafish Mar 2015 #65

Putin demonizes himself.... Adrahil Mar 2015 #329

Out of curiosity which part here in this link proves that this is all CT" Autumn Mar 2015 #74

Pilger claims President Obama spent $5 billion in 2014 to finance a coup in Ukraine. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #78

Where in the OP is that stated? I'm scrolling through until my eyes cross and I'm not finding it Autumn Mar 2015 #81

First sentence of the section titled "The Ukraine (sic) Coup" nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #82

Thank you. Now to bother you again, the article does not say Autumn Mar 2015 #90

Assorted NGOs. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #92

Thank you. Autumn Mar 2015 #93

Explain the 'democracy building' we are doing in Ukraine for all that money. We did the same thing sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #141

The bottom line here is that Pilger lied regarding the $5 billion figure, and you can't escape that. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #149

He did not lie, no matter how often you repeat that. Octafish Mar 2015 #163

Okay. I'll ask you again. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #164

No where. So why base your smears on that? Octafish Mar 2015 #174

So if a so-called "investigative journalist" makes a brash claim.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #176

What happened to the Orange Revolution and all that democracy building and how much did we sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #185

I don't know. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #188

WHY is the US pouring money into that country? Do you support that? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #302

Foreign investment in a country is a complex issue. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #304

Pilger didn't need to 'want me' to believe anything. We poured money into Iraq, into Ukraine sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #310

BFEE is no joke. Octafish Mar 2015 #2

no, THIS is fascism: uhnope Mar 2015 #60

Telling me to shut up makes you sound like some kind of nutty authority, uhnope. Octafish Mar 2015 #68

lol. oh yes, play the persecuted victim uhnope Mar 2015 #107

Not me. My country. Learn: The CIA's History Problem is Our History Problem Octafish Mar 2015 #114

That's your opinion. Pilger has enormous credibility around the world. Maybe that is why sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #146

Pilger "personally experienced" Ukraine as much as...... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #153

Yet another tanfuckingfastic source. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #3

That's what a character assassin would say. Octafish Mar 2015 #5

Why do you despise the LGBT community, Octafish? NuclearDem Mar 2015 #7

Why smear me? Nothing to say about Fascism in the USA? I'd add, 'Huh?' but, you know. Octafish Mar 2015 #10

John Pilger isn't the be-all, end-all to anti-fascism. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #22

Pilger's against the fascists that he wants to be against. But he's okay with the other fascists. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #27

Just keep telling the truth Octafish. A lot of people hate freedom of the press. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #38

Yes, calling an asshole an asshole is hating freedom of the press. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #45

Thank you, I appreciate the compliment. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #46

Emoticons. Cool! Octafish Mar 2015 #116

They make up your readership? NuclearDem Mar 2015 #134

No. Readers are literate. Octafish Mar 2015 #135

Seeing as how your OP and one of your replies in this thread contain pictures NuclearDem Mar 2015 #136

First Amendment was put there for a reason. Octafish Mar 2015 #119

Truth cuts like a knife nationalize the fed Mar 2015 #4

Yugoslavia was a model for the future world. Nothing commie about putting people over war profits. Octafish Mar 2015 #6

Good note on the fracking - TBF Mar 2015 #66

For some strange reason bringing up the BFEE or PNAC makes the gatekeepers in GD Rex Mar 2015 #24

I've noticed that also. And wonder why anyone here would be upset about the truth sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #40

The reason goes back asking Poppy Bush: why he was in Dallas on Nov. 22, 1963? Octafish Mar 2015 #73

Why didn't he report that earlier? That's a good question. I can think of a few reasons why sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #101

Pilger: Fascism is bad, m'kay? But while I have you here..... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #8

If you're proud that I closed the other thread, be proud. Octafish Mar 2015 #11

Um, no, I don't really care. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #12

That's a smear. Show where I lied. Octafish Mar 2015 #15

You posted Pilger's documentable lies. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #17

So, you can't find where I lied. That's different, isn't it? That's called a smear. Octafish Mar 2015 #20

I never said you personally lied. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #21

If they're documentable lies, then by all means DOCUMENT THEM with some links. Maedhros Mar 2015 #35

Ukraines new leader put himself in the role of dictator as soon as he was elected. Rex Mar 2015 #39

I've asked the same question. But still have not received the documentation that supposedly exists. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #47

Ahem. Post 53. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #54

You know, I thought you'd never ask. Just a few examples. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #53

So Virginia Nuland was the one lying then, and Pilger was merely giving her credit for telling the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #55

Regardless of what "Virginia" Nuland said, the issue has been researched and Pilger's lying. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #58

So neocon, Virginia Nuland lied? Someone is lying, that's for sure, and generally speaking when a sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #61

As far as I know, "Virginia" Nuland appears to be correct in her assertion. Pilger is lying. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #63

Virginia Nuland is a neocon, married to a neocon. I despise Neocons. They lie, they lied us into a sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #67

Why are you talking about "Virginia" Nuland? We're talking about John Pilger lying. Read his quote. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #70

Nuland's Husband is Robert Kagan, an architect of PNAC Octafish Mar 2015 #75

That's lovely. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #76

It is precisely the point. You argue relentlessly that Pilger is a liar, Tommy_Carcetti. Octafish Mar 2015 #79

Are you admitting that Pilger lied when he claimed Obama spent $5 billion on a "coup" in Ukraine? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #84

We don't know, do we? It's classified Top Secret. Along with a lot more information we should know. Octafish Mar 2015 #89

Like Area 51 and Tower 7, right? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #91

No, like in a Democracy, We the People are the government. Octafish Mar 2015 #102

But all you are doing is pulling stuff out of your ass. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #125

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #86

Supporting Mr. Kagan are Richard Perle and Adnan Khashoggi... Octafish Mar 2015 #94

Yes, and neocons are suddenly popular here, AND 'truthful'! She was caught planning the coup sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #100

It's a strange feeling, we now are supposed to cheer the Big Lie. Octafish Mar 2015 #104

You don't want us to talk about the neocons who were over there plotting for AFTER the Coup sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #96

From 2011: Goldman Sachs Is So Desperate To Get Into Ukraine It's Advising The Government For FREE Octafish Mar 2015 #105

I don't want you to lie and post bullshit. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #126

I posted FACTS. Not lies. Facts you claim are TRUE. That neocon Victoria Nuland boasted that the US sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #139

Pilger claimed President Obama spent $5 billion in 2014 to overthrow the Ukrainian government. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #154

"Virginia"... SidDithers Mar 2015 #167

Is for lovers! Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #168

... sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #181

They're not even trying to get basic facts right anymore. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #189

But still promoting anti-Semitic writers. zappaman Mar 2015 #196

Sideshow SidDithers of DU. Octafish Mar 2015 #218

Sad ain't it? They yell about sources then when you finally get one Rex Mar 2015 #77

"Hey that's good. You sure you ain't the smartest guy in the world?" Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #80

Don't you have some RWing leader to apologize for or something? Rex Mar 2015 #83

I'm very sorry for Austro Hungarian Emperor Franz Joseph I. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #88

I would vote for those muttonchops in an instant, no lie n/t Scootaloo Mar 2015 #95

Her name isn't Virginia, it's Victoria. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #178

I like Virginia better for her which should be for obvious reasons. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #182

If anyone ever needed this whole argument summed up in a nutshell, there it is. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #186

I agree with that. Virginia, yes there is a Santa Claus, Nuland's involvement in the pre-coup is sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #209

You just keep on making my point for me. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #210

That's a nice thing to do. zappaman Mar 2015 #211

Considering you again have refused to at least acknowledge the facts I just stated, you sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #212

Acknowledge what? That Nuland discussed who the US would want in charge? NuclearDem Mar 2015 #213

And coincidentally, she got what she wanted. And even considered what to do about the Neo Nazis sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #260

sabrina 1 is TOPS! Octafish Mar 2015 #215

And this is who you and sabrina have decided to side with: NuclearDem Mar 2015 #216

I guess some folks don't give a shit about LGBT rights. zappaman Mar 2015 #217

I'm glad you brought that up.. 'Things May Have Gotten Worse in Ukraine for the LGBT Community' sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #258

And you're getting this impression that LGBT allies don't care about the Ukrainian LGBT community... NuclearDem Mar 2015 #263

Stop it! I did not try to use this issue, I responded to Zappaman's attempt to use it. Do NOT sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #269

Oh, you want to play this game? Because I will. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #272

Oops. zappaman Mar 2015 #278

Do you support the US funding Ukraine, where 80% of the population opposes Gay Rights? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #285

You are defending the use of Gay Rights as a political football? Ignoring Ukraine's 80% opposition sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #280

I stand with the Russian, Ukrainian, Ugandan, and Saudi NuclearDem Mar 2015 #283

Now you are simply rambling. You support the US funding of Ukraine. You jumped in on the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #286

"You support the US funding of Ukraine." NuclearDem Mar 2015 #287

You supported someone who used the despicable tactic of using the rights of persecuted minorities sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #288

Wow, you must be incapable of reading. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #294

RT doesn't run ads. Nice try, and proof again that you have sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #295

Back off RT zappaman Mar 2015 #296

Putin is a piece of shit who is doing his best to zappaman Mar 2015 #289

Do you support the funding of an almost totally anti-Gay rights Ukraine by the US? sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #291

Yes, I see you don't care about Putins oppression of the LGBT community. zappaman Mar 2015 #290

You support Ukraine, a nation where 80% of the population opposes Gay Rights. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #292

Why the constant need to smear fellow DUers, NuclearDem? Octafish Mar 2015 #219

Why the constant need to stab the LGBT community in the back? NuclearDem Mar 2015 #220

Show where I've done that, otherwise it's another smear, NuclearDem. Octafish Mar 2015 #221

How about continually posting the writings of homophobic, anti-Semites? zappaman Mar 2015 #224

When all you have are insults, you've got nothing zappaman. Octafish Mar 2015 #227

When all you have it deflection, we can figure out the truth. zappaman Mar 2015 #261

No, I posted what Pilger wrote about Fascism. Octafish Mar 2015 #264

Now you're pretending not to know you posted an anti-Semite AGAIN on DU? zappaman Mar 2015 #267

I thought I told you what I told SidDithers of DU, zappaman? Octafish Mar 2015 #271

I like how you pretend Madsen and Roberts aren't homophobic anti-Semites. zappaman Mar 2015 #276

I find it telling how when I ask you to provide proof, you don't. Octafish Mar 2015 #315

Lol! zappaman Mar 2015 #318

Every single time you make excuses for that fascist fuck in the Kremlin. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #226

Whether by accident or design, you do the work of a disinformationist. Octafish Mar 2015 #228

And whether by accident or design, you do the work of a Putin puppet. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #231

Tag Team is so you, NuclearDem. Octafish Mar 2015 #232

Same with you and homophobic bullshit. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #234

Criticizing a professional debunker is not homophobic. Amazing Randi is undemocratic. Octafish Mar 2015 #235

Science and reality aren't democratic. You don't get to vote on what's true or not. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #236

Amazing Randi smeared Rupert Sheldrake. Amazing Randi broke US immigration law. Octafish Mar 2015 #238

Once again, you are treading on some thin fucking ice. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #240

Nice smear. Show where I supported any of that. Octafish Mar 2015 #246

You shamed Randi for lying to immigration about Alvarez. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #248

No shaming, other than the facts in the articles. Octafish Mar 2015 #250

I'm done here. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #251

Good riddance. Octafish Mar 2015 #253

Well, the OP wasn't worth reading either. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #255

Speaking of never adding anything. Octafish Mar 2015 #256

Post 174. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #257

See this post. Octafish Mar 2015 #262

I literally have no idea where you are going with this or how it's relevant to our discussion. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #281

Not this first time this DUer has used a homophobic author to make a point. zappaman Mar 2015 #265

That is a smear, zappaman. Octafish Mar 2015 #266

Would you like links to all the homophobes and anti-Semites you promote on DU? zappaman Mar 2015 #268

Are you on a Tag Team mission? Go ahead. Octafish Mar 2015 #270

Just because more than one DUer has noticed zappaman Mar 2015 #274

Why smear me over what Mearsheimer wrote? Take it out on him. That's the Fascist thing to do. Octafish Mar 2015 #277

Yes, it's democratic to defend anti-semitism according to you. zappaman Mar 2015 #279

Repeatedly misstating what I write is a propagandist's technique. Octafish Mar 2015 #311

Hey, you're the one who called a banned anti-Semite troll a "great DUer" zappaman Mar 2015 #312

Misrepresentation is the mark of a propagandist. Octafish Mar 2015 #313

What do you call someone who denies their own words, Octafish of DU? zappaman Mar 2015 #316

Why can't you prove what you say? You say I'm a horrible person, zappaman. Octafish Mar 2015 #317

No I didn't say you were a horrible person. zappaman Mar 2015 #320

Thank you for supplying links. Maedhros Mar 2015 #71

You're very welcome. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #72

What lies did Pilger tell? Could you link to them with documentation? You did say they sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #41

Again, Post 53. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #59

Which don't address the issue, does it? USA overthrew democracy in Ukraine. Octafish Mar 2015 #123

If you paste together a narrative of lies, such as the one I've pointed out on the Pilger piece... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #124

You don't know who John Mearsheimer is, do you? Octafish Mar 2015 #129

Posting writings from anti-semites again, Octafish of DU? zappaman Mar 2015 #133

Except you don't show he's any of that. So, all you got is a smear, zappaman. Octafish Mar 2015 #137

I have no idea why you like to post anti-Semites on DU, Octafish. zappaman Mar 2015 #138

When you got nothing, resort to insult. Octafish Mar 2015 #157

Its not an insult to point out how you like posting articles from anti-Semites and homophobes. zappaman Mar 2015 #170

Someone you conveniently use in an attempt to change the conversation? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #147

No, you waste time posting a $5 Billion straw man again and again. Octafish Mar 2015 #158

You're claiming Pilger's own quote on the $5 billion is a strawman? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #159

Know your BFEE: Nazis couldn’t win WWII, so they backed Bushes. Octafish Mar 2015 #161

Oh dear Lord. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #162

Know your BFEE: Spawn of Wall Street and the Third Reich Octafish Mar 2015 #165

You know, at this point I'm thinking you are some Andy Kauffman-esqe caricature.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #166

Know your BFEE: War and Oil are just two longtime Main Lines of Business Octafish Mar 2015 #171

Okay, we've narrowed the gap to six years now. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #173

Do I have to spell it out for you? The people who tried to overthrow FDR in 1933 had kids. Octafish Mar 2015 #183

Don't you see? He was only doing it to fool Lloyd Braun! Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #187

No, it just shows what you know, Tommy_Carcetti. Octafish Mar 2015 #190

Dude, you are the unsexiest Ygritte I've ever seen. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #191

"Mearsheimer is an expert in the field of international relations." And an anti-Semite. zappaman Mar 2015 #172

You sound so scary, zappaman. Show where Mearsheimer is an anti-Semite. Octafish Mar 2015 #175

Reply #133 zappaman Mar 2015 #177

So you have no evidence. Then why call me an anti-Semite, zappaman? Octafish Mar 2015 #184

I didn't call you an anti-Semite, Octafish. zappaman Mar 2015 #195

Neo-liberal Fascism masks itself with the trappings of Democracy. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #9

Yup. Empire over community, always. nt truebluegreen Mar 2015 #13

People are waking up to the undemocratic nature of US politics. Octafish Mar 2015 #14

If they are waking up, we can expect a lot more flagwaving and scary bogeymen to appear Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #18

Yeah one in here, poor little fella is trying as hard as he can. Rex Mar 2015 #37

I read this article last year and was wondering what it was about, thanks for the info. Rex Mar 2015 #16

Amazing cast of nefarious characters. Octafish Mar 2015 #19

Well I did not know what to believe, neo-nazis in charge of Ukraine? Yikes! Rex Mar 2015 #23

Little problem there. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #25

Yes now they are on their 5th president in Ukraine. Another RWing crook it appears. Rex Mar 2015 #28

What are you talking about? Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #30

What are you talking about? Rex Mar 2015 #31

You claimed Svoboda was "in charge" of Ukraine, I called you on it.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #33

So you are okay with the 5th president being a RWing criminal, thanks that was what i wanted to know Rex Mar 2015 #36

I'm not a Ukrainian citizen so obviously I didn't vote for Poroshenko. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #56

"Is the US backing Neo-Nazis in Ukraine" sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #51

Ukraine War: A Reverse Cuban Missile Crisis Octafish Mar 2015 #29

It is amusing, just to defend their pony people here will defend RWing leaders in other countries. Rex Mar 2015 #32

yes.... KoKo Mar 2015 #42

There really is no way to deny the neo-Nazi elements in the Ukraine government. So the default sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #44

bookmarked daleanime Mar 2015 #26

The Post-9/11 Homeland Security Industrial Complex Profiteers and Endless War Octafish Mar 2015 #97

Trust me, don't worry about adding to my list..... daleanime Mar 2015 #98

Recommend... KoKo Mar 2015 #160

as I have been saying for a quite a few years now... Javaman Mar 2015 #34

Smile. Don't believe what your eyes and ears tell you. Octafish Mar 2015 #229

Pilger certainly lays his cards on the table... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #43

He's been a war correspondent and documentary film maker for decades KoKo Mar 2015 #48

I'm just saying... Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #52

Would you like to see the photos of all the world leaders who were posing with and making deals with sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #57

thank you G_j Mar 2015 #62

He also supported the IRA Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #85

Oh it wasn't WE who 'white-washed all these Dictators, it was our LEADERS. So go talk to THEM. sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #99

HRW not "reliable" enough for you? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #117

Who liked Gadaffi? Bishop Tutu for one, and Mandela. Both referred to him as a 'brother' for the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #143

Indeed. KoKo Mar 2015 #242

Plenty of 'evilness' out there. We get to choose? elias49 Mar 2015 #64

Hey, if Gaddafi was a "good guy" then everybody is a "good guy" Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #87

Good and Evil....Its often in the eye of the beholder and people are complicated.... KoKo Mar 2015 #244

Which of course totally justifies turning Libya into a shithole full of squabbling warlords n/t eridani Mar 2015 #225

Parenti calls it fascism in a pin-striped suit Doctor_J Mar 2015 #49

From 1996! Octafish Mar 2015 #103

His best book IMO Doctor_J Mar 2015 #111

TUC Radio has an archive of Michael Parenti lectures... Octafish Mar 2015 #113

Thanks. I will check that out. The most under-referenced liberal intellectual of my lifetime Doctor_J Mar 2015 #131

The surface appearances of "democracy" with the results of fascism hifiguy Mar 2015 #69

''Friendly Fascism'' is how Bertram Gross put it in 1980... Octafish Mar 2015 #108

Pilger's worldview: USA=fascists. anti-US countries= good guys. Yorktown Mar 2015 #106

He's entitled to his opinion. Do you think the United States is entitled to kill innocent people? Octafish Mar 2015 #109

True, Pilger is entitled to be wrong Yorktown Mar 2015 #115

Russia never attacked anybody for their oil. Octafish Mar 2015 #121

LOL Putin's Russia has attacked Georgia and Ukraine for land (twice each) Yorktown Mar 2015 #122

Excellent posts. Thanks. All of these conspiracy theories R B Garr Mar 2015 #127

LOL I love the comment at the end of the quote Yorktown Mar 2015 #132

Why would they? NuclearDem Mar 2015 #142

Please stop with the facts. zappaman Mar 2015 #144

International Law? Octafish Mar 2015 #148

International law didn't stop Russia from invading Ukraine either. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #152

Why waste my time trying to teach you what you don't want to know? Octafish Mar 2015 #155

So to sum up your "lesson"... NuclearDem Mar 2015 #156

Glad you got something out of it. Here's some of what you missed: Octafish Mar 2015 #192

I'm sorry, Prescott Bush has something to do with Putin's war of aggression...how? NuclearDem Mar 2015 #193

It's because he's trying to fool Lloyd Braun! nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #194

Prescott's ancestors are still on the Bridge of the Ship of State, making Big Bucks off War. Octafish Mar 2015 #197

I'll ask again: NuclearDem Mar 2015 #198

His son, George Herbert Walker Bush, and grandson, George Walker Bush, both lied America into war. Octafish Mar 2015 #199

So, of course then President Obama paid $5 billlion in 2014 for a "coup" in Ukraine! Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #200

Focusing on $5 billion diverts attention from the point: Wars for Profit. Octafish Mar 2015 #205

The $5 billion figure was important enough for Pilger to lie about. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #206

Pilger is accurate, which is why you have to smear him. Octafish Mar 2015 #207

But you yourself admit he's not accurate. See Post 174. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #233

Because secret government is secret? Ask PNAC Robert Kagan's wife, Victoria Nuland. Octafish Mar 2015 #273

You've got her name wrong. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #293

Why do you spread disinformation, Tommy_Carcetti? Is it some sort of sick game for you? Octafish Mar 2015 #298

Someone clearly hasn't been reading all the responses to his own posts here. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #299

You want to make me out as some kind of asshole, Tommy_Carcetti of DU? Octafish Mar 2015 #300

What I can hang on you, Octafish, is that you posted a piece with blatant misinformation. Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #301

What disinformation did I post? Where I said you posted her name wrong when you didn't? Octafish Mar 2015 #303

See post 53. nt Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #305

Time Waster. Octafish Mar 2015 #307

I believe.... Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #308

And I'll ask yet again: NuclearDem Mar 2015 #201

And I'll answer again: Three Generations of Bush and Counting. Octafish Mar 2015 #202

They don't make me angry. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #203

Have you tried asking a chair? zappaman Mar 2015 #208

That's what they said about me on Conservative Cave, zappaman. Octafish Mar 2015 #230

Have you recently checked Jonathan Chait's BIO? KoKo Mar 2015 #112

No idea about Chait, but I trust Hitchens and The Economist Yorktown Mar 2015 #118

Mayhem has no party preference seveneyes Mar 2015 #110

Think the world of that album and those knuckleheads and their friends. Octafish Mar 2015 #120

Thanks for posting Octafish. Pleased to see the number of 'recs' your OP is receiving. Purveyor Mar 2015 #128

Hiya, Purveyor! Octafish Mar 2015 #130

K&R for the original post and subsequent informative posts and links. JEB Mar 2015 #140

Remember who Uncle Sam hired for the secret government: the Mafia and the NAZIs. Octafish Mar 2015 #222

I think all the U.S. government / Obama apologists here prove that America is indeed a fascist state AZ Progressive Mar 2015 #145

Thank you, AZ Progressive. Octafish Mar 2015 #150

K/R marmar Mar 2015 #151

Democrats believe in Democracy for everyone. It's genetic. Same for Fascism. You can just tell. Octafish Mar 2015 #204

That post is longer than all the rest of DU combined. Orrex Mar 2015 #169

You're exposed, Orrex! Tommy_Carcetti Mar 2015 #179

What a bastard I am! Orrex Mar 2015 #180

Big K&R nt Zorra Mar 2015 #214

Goldman Sachs is in the Money Trumps Peace Loop Octafish Mar 2015 #223

As an example of Pilger's dishonesty, here's Garton-Ash's piece muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #237

The PNAC guy? Octafish Mar 2015 #239

No, not a PNAC guy muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #241

Which makes him out to be PNAC chums with Robert Kagan, husband, coincidentally, of Victoria Nuland. Octafish Mar 2015 #243

No, it doesn't make him a 'chum' muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #245

PNAC is attempting to force US into arming Ukraine in a hoped-for war with Russia. Octafish Mar 2015 #247

I pointed out you made up that he is a 'chum' of Kagan muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #249

PNAC ''Chums'' is a bad word on my part. Sorry. PNAC "Co-conspirators" would be more accurate. Octafish Mar 2015 #252

A "Liberal Interventionist" who believes in Global Stability? KoKo Mar 2015 #254

PNAC, like Banksters, are Buy Partisan...co-incidentally, of course. Octafish Mar 2015 #259

Not in favour of intervention in all cases muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #282

No...I'll give that to him in your first link to his article about Iraq.... KoKo Mar 2015 #319

Must have touched a sensitive spot. LOL. JEB Mar 2015 #275

Meanwhile, I mention what Rahm said...I get a post locked. Octafish Mar 2015 #297

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #322

Wow. I know you guys think you're being clever and all NuclearDem Mar 2015 #324

As compared to Rahm? Octafish Mar 2015 #325

Rahm saying it doesn't justify you using it too. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #326

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #327

No, I'm hoping you'd maybe realize how hurtful and derogatory a word like r******* is. NuclearDem Mar 2015 #330

Good luck. zappaman Mar 2015 #331

CIA manual Urged Rebels to Assassinate Their Own In Order to Create “Martyrs” Ichingcarpenter Mar 2015 #284

Thank you for reminding DU, Ichingcarpenter. Octafish Mar 2015 #306

I saw that Ichingcarpenter Mar 2015 #309

Russia's actions in Ukraine conflict an 'invasion', says US official Victoria Nuland Octafish Mar 2015 #314

The author from the Guardian nationalize the fed Mar 2015 #321

K&R woo me with science Mar 2015 #323

THE WELL OILED MEDIA Octafish Mar 2015 #328

kick woo me with science Mar 2015 #332

Kick and recommend! nt. polly7 Apr 2015 #333