General Discussion

randome

(34,845 posts)

62. Sorry, I disagree that Democratic principles have changed.

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 11:18 AM

Mar 2015

I especially think your list of the 'new' principles reflects anger and not objectivity on your part.

What has changed is the influence of the Libertarian mindset that views all the original principles as absolutes despite the imprecise wording: "Safeguarding the constitutional protections..." That doesn't mean something you can point to, it means different things to different people.

The NSA spying is way overblown, IMO. That's what spy agencies do. They spy on foreign targets. Even Bob Woodward said it appeared to him they have sufficient safeguards in place to prevent abuse. I suppose he is no longer a 'true' Democrat.

But I agree we need a new firebrand to take care of the things you listed, especially equality and reigning in corporations. It won't be Clinton but until someone better steps up to the plate, it's unbecoming to tear down our own.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

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Democrats used to stand for principles [View all] whereisjustice Mar 2015 OP

Principals run schools. MADem Mar 2015 #1

Sounds like you are telling us to leave and vote for another political party. Is that what you think whereisjustice Mar 2015 #4

They apparently don't need the Left. So the Left has taken them at their word and started selecting sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #8

Sooner or later... malokvale77 Mar 2015 #31

IMO, most Democratic politicians in office at this point are centrists. merrily Mar 2015 #52

Run candidates! Adrahil Mar 2015 #49

Really? That easy? bvar22 Mar 2015 #101

Yep-- every once in awhile the curtain has to be removed to save some Marr Mar 2015 #104

What's your alternative? Adrahil Mar 2015 #112

Simple. bvar22 Mar 2015 #114

Thank you. The meme that finding good candidates is my job is a fucking joke, anyway. merrily Mar 2015 #133

You've STARTED selecting and supporting your own Democrats? brooklynite Mar 2015 #63

Well, that's what we LEARNED. Who picked Christie for Governor of NJ, a BLUE STATE v the Dem sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #72

Buono was a bad candidate brooklynite Mar 2015 #75

Same goes for Florida...or ANY state. bvar22 Mar 2015 #117

"Third Wayers will be primaried" Oilwellian Mar 2015 #65

Obviously reading isn't your strong suit, either. It sounds like nothing of the sort. MADem Mar 2015 #10

Well, in Arkansas we found a great candidate for governor last year-- Bill Halter, Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #34

Well, you, and others like you, need to work your way up into the "fat cat" leadership. MADem Mar 2015 #35

You should take this up with my fellow Arkansan, Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #42

My point still stands. If your guy had critical mass, they couldn't pull any rug out from under him MADem Mar 2015 #43

The guy had been lieutenant governor, for crying out loud! Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #46

IMO, the Party should remain neutral in primaries. No thumbs on the scale. merrily Mar 2015 #54

Apparently, pre-primaries are just for weeding out candidates Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #110

I know, right? That talking point makes no sense. merrily Mar 2015 #132

I'm with you guys. bvar22 Mar 2015 #138

Where were his donors? MADem Mar 2015 #91

The objective is to get money OUT of politics, to STOP the buying of candidates, not to pour MORE sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #55

Have you not been reading what I write? MADem Mar 2015 #90

I've been reading what you wrote, bvar22 Mar 2015 #120

The "innocent" here is you. MADem Mar 2015 #131

Continuing an above "conversation". bvar22 Mar 2015 #139

Right back atcha. nt MADem Mar 2015 #143

"you need to work your way up into the "fat cat" leadership" bvar22 Mar 2015 #123

Oh really? Do you think Liz Warren was born a multi-millionaire? MADem Mar 2015 #130

That sounds exactly like how we got Mary Burke as our candidate Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #51

Kansas has been run like this too, MuseRider Mar 2015 #53

It seems as if the Arkansas Democratic Party just pushed the self-destruct button Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #60

Serious question ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #79

Probably by refusing to give him any backing if he did win Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #92

Then what's your answer? Adrahil Mar 2015 #113

Post removed Post removed Mar 2015 #29

Wow--nasty accusation, that. And blatantly false. Nice smear job, though. MADem Mar 2015 #36

"...us liberals..." randome Mar 2015 #67

One thing I've noticed is that 99% of the folks here that are always breaking their arms patting Number23 Mar 2015 #93

I think you've hit it out of the park. MADem Mar 2015 #96

You did too, my friend! Number23 Mar 2015 #97

Youf last sentence nearly cost me a keyboard!! MADem Mar 2015 #98

Great point Andy823 Mar 2015 #99

Mmmm hmmmm! MADem Mar 2015 #95

We did that, in the mid terms. Didn't you notice, Liberal groups and orgs and supporters across the sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #6

Whining about Clinton isn't "doing it." MADem Mar 2015 #9

Progressive WON in the last election. Now if the leadership again refuses to hear the voters, sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #13

There's no way you can call the midterms a win. MADem Mar 2015 #16

You just don't see it. And that's what voters are talking about. It's like banging your head against sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #19

Who's 'blaming the voters?' MADem Mar 2015 #26

Doesn't see it, doesn't choose to see it, doesn't admit seeing it. Doesn't much matter which. merrily Mar 2015 #57

By your argument we ought to just abandon the election system Scootaloo Mar 2015 #24

No. I think people should fight FOR their candidates, rather than against the candidates of others. MADem Mar 2015 #25

Third Way, Bluedogs got hammered. malokvale77 Mar 2015 #33

Lots of candidates got hammered. MADem Mar 2015 #37

For someone chiding someone else on a grammatical error, you should realize that cui bono Mar 2015 #17

Sorry--you're wrong. There are "undeclared candidates" in this race, and you know it. MADem Mar 2015 #18

In a political race, once you declare you become a candidate, until then you are not one. cui bono Mar 2015 #27

Yeah, that's why Gallup and others do polls to find out how these "undeclared candidates" might MADem Mar 2015 #38

If all the Democratic Party has is HRC then they have nothing but fear of a Republican who is worse anotojefiremnesuka Mar 2015 #39

Not sure what your point was, there. Primary season is a ways away. Have a nice day. nt MADem Mar 2015 #40

I know you don’t otherwise I would not have responded in the first place. Enjoy your day! anotojefiremnesuka Mar 2015 #41

We do find our own candidates.. and are promptly told "they can't win" SomethingFishy Mar 2015 #102

PASSIVE. "Are promptly told..." -- and what do you do? Tug your forelock and say Yessir? MADem Mar 2015 #107

Even better than your first foray in this thread!! Number23 Mar 2015 #108

Well thanks--it's how I sincerely feel. I would love to see some "platform talk." MADem Mar 2015 #109

Thanks princiPLEs cilla4progress Mar 2015 #2

Thanks and yikes, fixed it. whereisjustice Mar 2015 #3

No worries cilla4progress Mar 2015 #66

Sounds like you listed some RW platform items. Thinkingabout Mar 2015 #5

Lots and lots of Democrats for those things you first listed... Drunken Irishman Mar 2015 #7

The Sanders Agenda for America nationalize the fed Mar 2015 #11

A great agenda...that he can't implement if he can't win... brooklynite Mar 2015 #119

The good old days that never were. nt geek tragedy Mar 2015 #12

Yeah sure except for FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson and Carter and thousands of local and federal whereisjustice Mar 2015 #14

FDR had a terrible civil liberties record. geek tragedy Mar 2015 #71

So what are you doing on your local level, then? Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #105

You wouldn't believe how different things were before Nov. 22, 1963. Octafish Mar 2015 #23

That may be a matter of one's perception. merrily Mar 2015 #85

That is the big picture. That's also why I'm a Kennedy Democrat. Octafish Mar 2015 #89

Thanks. I never heard of that memo, either. merrily Mar 2015 #137

I find your historical whitewashing not just inaccurate, but deeply offensive YoungDemCA Mar 2015 #124

Do you remember Nov. 22, 1963? If not, how do you know what it was like to be ''deeply'' offended? Octafish Mar 2015 #128

So true. The OP demonstrates treestar Mar 2015 #69

This ^ ^ ^ Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Mar 2015 #142

K&R thank you for this tread ... Dragonfli Mar 2015 #15

K&R ReRe Mar 2015 #20

And now they stand for the 1% ... blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #21

K&R. JDPriestly Mar 2015 #22

There are tons of D's in Congress Jamaal510 Mar 2015 #28

Don't confuse an instant in time with the momentum for progress. Over the course of recent history whereisjustice Mar 2015 #30

The Congressional Progressive Caucus is the largest Democratic caucus within the Congress Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #48

Yet without the kind that folds and spins you got jack shit TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #50

And yet you think you need to explain to me that I also need money? What towering arrogance. Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #56

I didn't pirate shit from you and don't know what this "community" of mine is. TheKentuckian Mar 2015 #59

You are preaching to me that people need jobs even as you argue that those of us who seek equal Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #64

I never said any such thing. You are putting your words into my mouth. I've spit them out. whereisjustice Mar 2015 #61

You: "There would be no need for a special caucus if the Democratic Party hadn't steered away from Bluenorthwest Mar 2015 #70

+1.n/t 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #83

"You say there is no need for them. " - show me where I said this? Retract your misquote. You hijack whereisjustice Mar 2015 #84

+1 ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #82

It's easier to romanticize the Party of olden days ... that appeared to work ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #81

The Party may have "worked" back then.... YoungDemCA Mar 2015 #125

Some did, but... TreasonousBastard Mar 2015 #32

There you go again, introducing facts into an attempt to whitewash history YoungDemCA Mar 2015 #122

This is why all the emails just say "The Republicans did something awful. Send cash." Policy? Ha! Scuba Mar 2015 #44

I'm so sick of those emails. RiverLover Mar 2015 #45

Keep unsubscribing. Eventually, it works. merrily Mar 2015 #141

So true. They should find popular policies like raising the minimum wage lovemydog Mar 2015 #136

Ageed. 99Forever Mar 2015 #47

Who needs principles? Android3.14 Mar 2015 #58

With little else, the half-wit pretends a bumper-sticker is someone's premise, and argues against th LanternWaste Mar 2015 #116

Sorry, I disagree that Democratic principles have changed. randome Mar 2015 #62

Woodward never was a Democrat MFrohike Mar 2015 #111

A party is a cobbling together of like minded treestar Mar 2015 #68

cobbling together of like minded people...that implies shared values HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #73

You are creating a division between people treestar Mar 2015 #74

Yes HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #78

Make these people more famous the masses need to know their names. Instead treestar Mar 2015 #86

I don't think the party's principals have changed. hrmjustin Mar 2015 #76

Principles become inconvienent incumbrances to ambitious politicians. Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #77

Holding to principle -seriously- interferes with triangulation HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #87

"Don't let the principled be the enemy of the expedient." Maedhros Mar 2015 #126

How about honesty and transparency?...nt SidDithers Mar 2015 #80

It isn't just Hillary Jim Beard Mar 2015 #88

So quit crying if you don't want Hillary, and Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #94

lmfao - Let me translate your tough guy sound bite to what you really mean: whereisjustice Mar 2015 #100

ok...fine...you win Blue_Tires Mar 2015 #103

Very good Jim Beard Mar 2015 #106

I'm satisfied with the Democratic Party platform. LanternWaste Mar 2015 #115

Hillary... uhm err hmm ...Oligarchy 2016. L0oniX Mar 2015 #118

You mean like these principles? YoungDemCA Mar 2015 #121

Here's what I've observed about how the process works in the USA Dyedinthewoolliberal Mar 2015 #127

Well, that was before the DLC brigade sold the party to Wall $treet hifiguy Mar 2015 #129

DLC, Third Way, Progressive Policy Institute, Century for American Progress, No Labels, all merrily Mar 2015 #134

+1 bvar22 Mar 2015 #140

Hillary isn't our only option ... Lots of words ... No alternative mentioned. JoePhilly Mar 2015 #135