General Discussion

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)

31. Already did in #21. But here it is again,

Thu Mar 19, 2015, 04:44 PM

Mar 2015

If you were the Vietnamese or Japanese government, or one of the other countries involved, would you offer your best deal on trade, environmental issues, or workers' rights, if you thought our Congress -- with its recent track record -- were going to hash through and politicize every aspect of any agreement that might be endorsed by Obama, from font size to policy. I think not.

Assuming Obama even gets fast-track, the agreement will still be available to review and Congress must approve it. The difference is, Congress can't nit-pick it to death for political reasons.

No other country is going to get serious about such an agreement think our Congress will take 20 years to decide on the font size, blame Obama and the Democrats for selling us down-the-river, and worse. Nor, will we offer our best efforts if we think other countries are going to nit-pick it to death.

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'Progressive' Coalition for Fast Track and TPP Appears from Nowhere [View all] Octafish Mar 2015 OP

"Progressive Coalition to Lie About Being Progressive" MannyGoldstein Mar 2015 #1

I wonder how many progressives this will fool. Had me going for a minute. I just about rhett o rick Mar 2015 #15

sickening. progressives will not be fooled by these asswipes. cali Mar 2015 #2

The pic says it all DonCoquixote Mar 2015 #3

We need to create a new term to call us progressives and then PATENT it! cascadiance Mar 2015 #4

"Liberal" is simply a word Conservatives use to demonize Democrats. Maedhros Mar 2015 #5

I wouldn't say simply... I'm damn proud of calling myself liberal. I know the rw wants it to be cui bono Mar 2015 #30

They are like Humpty Dumpty in Alice in Wonderland... Maedhros Mar 2015 #45

Reagan's PR people made ''Liberal'' the target. Octafish Mar 2015 #52

I do not think Obama will endorse a bad trade agreement. Further, Hoyt Mar 2015 #6

Obama prefers to negotiate with business people than with workers. liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #8

Yep. The people were shut out from the get go hifiguy Mar 2015 #12

He's negotiating with government representatives from each country. Hoyt Mar 2015 #13

The American workers' wages have been on the decline for decades now. Just how is international liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #16

Doing nothing -- and letting other countries capture trade agreements -- ain't gonna help. Hoyt Mar 2015 #22

The only people these trade agreements help are wealthy business owners. Thanks but no thanks. liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #25

Do you really think that international trade is bad for American workers? Why pampango Mar 2015 #36

+1 Hoyt Mar 2015 #40

Corporations know they can get away with treating Americans workers worse than other countries. liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #44

So, let's do nothing and let the other countries band together to trade. Hoyt Mar 2015 #70

We will see it... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #78

If this was a "positive" bill to fix things, it wouldn't need Fast Track! cascadiance Mar 2015 #9

It probably won't get fast-track. But tell me something -- If you were the Japanese government or Hoyt Mar 2015 #21

If I were the Japanese government, Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #96

You obviously haven't read how dispute resolution work. They only affect trade disputes, like Hoyt Mar 2015 #102

I watched the televised debates in the Japanese parliament Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #103

If there is enough opposition among Japanese government, they won't ratify it. I bet they do. Hoyt Mar 2015 #104

The Japanese government is controlled by a right-wing coalition Art_from_Ark Mar 2015 #105

Obama wouldn't have negotiated in secret or pushed fast track Divernan Mar 2015 #10

Already did in #21. But here it is again, Hoyt Mar 2015 #31

Your "belief" that the final draft will contain some positive aspects is based on what? rhett o rick Mar 2015 #24

Obama has indicated why he's involved in these talks. I believe it could be in our best interest. Hoyt Mar 2015 #35

If your argument is that the TPP will help American industries, I agree. But it won't help workers. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #47

I didn't say TPP is all that needed. Sorry, we can't solve all the issues in one post. Hoyt Mar 2015 #73

That's like all the critics of TPP who say "it could" hurt......... Hoyt Mar 2015 #74

It's up to the person selling the product to convince the consumer (the 99%) that the product rhett o rick Mar 2015 #84

Nope, he's saying he is doing what all the countries are doing. Hoyt Mar 2015 #86

It doesn't pass the logic test to say that although those portions leaked or revealed rhett o rick Mar 2015 #89

It's your opinion it's damaging. As another poster pointed out, European countries have been Hoyt Mar 2015 #93

What good has come out of NAFTA for the American people? cui bono Mar 2015 #32

You have no idea of how bad things might be without NAFTA. I believe Paul Krugman, when he said Hoyt Mar 2015 #38

So, what good has come from NAFTA for the American people? n/t cui bono Mar 2015 #39

It's solidified our relations with our neighbors and Hoyt Mar 2015 #43

Yeah, it would be good for those business owners. Doubtful it would good for the workers of that liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #46

Now that is short-sighted. If the business isn't doing relatively well, you sure aren't Hoyt Mar 2015 #57

I'm so tired of hearing the argument that if business owners don't get want they want there liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #60

It's a two way street. You just naturally assume Nutcase is a slave driver. I don't. Hoyt Mar 2015 #63

I'm done arguing with you. I think it is pretty clear you side with business owners rather than liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #65

I think a lot more folks are satisfied with their jobs than you think. But, I agree there are Hoyt Mar 2015 #69

"Do you care about them?" awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #79

That's what I thought, you don't care about workers in other countries. Hoyt Mar 2015 #81

... liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #83

No, you sound like the 1%ers when we start talking about people in other countries. Hoyt Mar 2015 #85

Well then we have something in common because you sound like the 1%ers when it comes to liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #87

The vast majority of workers have a living wage. Agree somethingneeds to be done for those who don't Hoyt Mar 2015 #94

no, the vast majority of workers do not have a living wage. Wages have been stagnant for decades and liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #98

The economic policies of the last 40 years... awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #95

We can help both with a decent trade agreement. Hoyt Mar 2015 #97

Too bad that "a decent trade agreement" awoke_in_2003 Mar 2015 #101

You never explained how a free trade agreement - NAFTA - has helped American workers. n/t cui bono Mar 2015 #107

The person you are quoting from "Nutcase Helmets" is the founder and owner. rhett o rick Mar 2015 #49

If the head of Costco had written an article like that, would you still be posting such stuff? Hoyt Mar 2015 #58

get back when the head of Costco writes an article like that frylock Mar 2015 #71

Maybe someone from Oregon will offer some insight, before we just assume he abuses his labor force. Hoyt Mar 2015 #59

And we were doing so well to. I didn't say that he "abuses his labor force". But he didn't even say rhett o rick Mar 2015 #80

I suspect he could use Vietnam now if he wanted. That's the thing, this trend ain't gonna Hoyt Mar 2015 #82

Word of this bullshit needs to spread themaguffin Mar 2015 #106

In 2012, Obama negotiated the "Korean Free Trade Agreement" for us. bvar22 Mar 2015 #48

Trade agreements are a little more long-term than that. Hoyt Mar 2015 #75

If we lost 60,000 jobs in only 3 years to one nation NickB79 Mar 2015 #100

If there were environmentalists, unions, citizen groups negotiating, but corps only? NO!! on point Mar 2015 #51

"many were wrong about Obama gutting social security, approving the pipeline, supporting net neutr" Hissyspit Mar 2015 #56

It did not happen. You can't argue with that. Hoyt Mar 2015 #77

Not arguing with that. Hissyspit Mar 2015 #90

This post is making things clearer. cui bono Mar 2015 #108

It would be easy enough sulphurdunn Mar 2015 #72

So you have faith in Obama's ISDS clause? riobravo Mar 2015 #99

The DINOs already had started this name grab with the "Progressive" Policy Institute "Think Tank"... cascadiance Mar 2015 #7

yep . . . .n/t annabanana Mar 2015 #66

So, Third Way "Democrats" have a new moniker. They can run, but they can't hide. blkmusclmachine Mar 2015 #11

Hidden in plain sight...they KNOW that PROGRESSIVISM is MORE POPULAR HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #14

I'm not afraid of the label socialist, but I just bet Third Wayers would be. liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #20

At least as I see it, American progressives are more democrats interested in social issues HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #27

You cannot have social justice without economic justice. liberal_at_heart Mar 2015 #33

I share that view. You also can't have social progress without spending money HereSince1628 Mar 2015 #41

Arbeit macht fre Ichingcarpenter Mar 2015 #17

shape shifters grasswire Mar 2015 #18

For a moment... Oilwellian Mar 2015 #54

"Progressive" has quickly become a word of no value. mmonk Mar 2015 #19

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Mar 2015 #26

Correct. Symantics control people more than reality these days. mmonk Mar 2015 #37

Progressive my arsehole. GoneFishin Mar 2015 #23

Progressive Fascism Ichingcarpenter Mar 2015 #29

I think some people think that if you support one issue that is progressive, then rhett o rick Mar 2015 #28

They are progressively more right wing, that's about the extent of their progressivism. cui bono Mar 2015 #34

Smells like astro turf BS to con public into supporting stinky TPP on point Mar 2015 #42

If the TPP is as good a legislative idea as POTUS is hawking... nightscanner59 Mar 2015 #50

Is Will Marshall part of this "progressive" group? Jack Rabbit Mar 2015 #53

k&r Keep calling them out. AtomicKitten Mar 2015 #55

K&R DeSwiss Mar 2015 #61

Why no mention herein re the ISDS clause of TPP? riobravo Mar 2015 #62

THIS is the ONE thing that MUST be understood about this monstrosity! annabanana Mar 2015 #67

The three judge ISDS panels riobravo Mar 2015 #88

disgusting. blackspade Mar 2015 #64

Trade-Related Job Loss by State whereisjustice Mar 2015 #68

False flag operation librechik Mar 2015 #76

K & R AzDar Mar 2015 #91

Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Mar 2015 #92