General Discussion

Bonobo

(29,257 posts) Thu Apr 16, 2015, 02:23 AM Apr 2015

A million people killed. Damn. How do you live with it? [View all]

A million killed in the most recent war in Iraq.

500,000 kids under 5 died as a result of Clinton's embargoes in Iraq.

Probably another 100,000 in Bush Sr.'s war there...

I knew the numbers already, but it is the kind of thing that leaves your mind for a while but when it comes back, it overwhelms you and eats away at you...

How do you live with it, as Americans (I am one too although I will never again live there). How does it not grow to be such a monstrous blot on your minds that you can no longer handle the hypocrisy of pointing the fingers at nations, like Japan, whose sins were done over 70 years ago, probably before your parents were even born? Or Israel who takes the lives of far, far fewer despite facing a threat that is far, far greater?

It is staggering, monstrous, a genocide... I wish it were not treated as "just another thing".

I guess I am just venting here, but I don't ever want to get to the point where it doesn't stagger me. I don't want to forget or let my children forget.

143 replies

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A million people killed. Damn. How do you live with it? [View all] Bonobo Apr 2015 OP

Just hold your nose and forget the dead, the tortured, the maimed. It was "smart" politics. Tierra_y_Libertad Apr 2015 #1

God forbid the smart thing to do would have been to avoid all that carnage and spending. merrily Apr 2015 #15

Yep. Martin Eden Apr 2015 #103

"One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic." - J. Stalin Spider Jerusalem Apr 2015 #2

One death is a tragedy. A million creates jobs. merrily Apr 2015 #17

Bang on! nt GliderGuider Apr 2015 #129

Thanks. I try. merrily Apr 2015 #130

But Bush and Cheney presented convincing evidence! Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #3

That even Susan Sarandon didn't buy, nor any Dem I know personally. merrily Apr 2015 #16

Even my Japanese boss didn't buy that heaping pile of happy horse manure Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #20

We know the Japanese PM did because Japan is totally independent of us and politicians never fudge. merrily Apr 2015 #25

Yeah, that was pretty funny, all right Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #65

As was her plain speak meter. merrily Apr 2015 #68

A bunch of Dems in congress bought it. Nt hughee99 Apr 2015 #82

Thing is, I am as sure as I humanly can be that they did not. merrily Apr 2015 #94

I agree, and in my opinion, that makes it hughee99 Apr 2015 #96

exactly. "unless I let loose the horrific dogs of war, my image might suffer." merrily Apr 2015 #97

Some may have bought it, which means they weren't fit for that office, others though imo, supported sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #110

Who is less fit for office, the person who hughee99 Apr 2015 #117

Thank you for this thread LittleBlue Apr 2015 #4

Does Our Species Yallow Apr 2015 #5

The thing is that other "civilized" nations are not doing it with impunity. Bonobo Apr 2015 #7

didn't england and poland join the war in iraq ? JI7 Apr 2015 #8

Yes, true. But they wouldn't have done it without us pulling them in. nt Bonobo Apr 2015 #10

That is an excuse? Sounds like the "I was only following orders" excuse still_one Apr 2015 #55

Thank you..No, the Euros don't get a pass. n/t whathehell Apr 2015 #76

No it is not an excuse at all. Tony Blair is as much of a war criminal as our own criminals. sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #111

That is fine, though bush/cheney WOULD have invaded Iraq regardless. They said so. However, my still_one Apr 2015 #119

The history of Europe is one of brutal Imperial Colonialism. And now we are taking over where they sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #120

We are on the same page still_one Apr 2015 #131

Got that right. bvf Apr 2015 #11

This may be the hardest thing to reconcile... Surya Gayatri Apr 2015 #14

I don't know who "we" is, but I have whathehell Apr 2015 #77

In a lot of ways, bvf Apr 2015 #12

We have. We've gone from fisticuffs and throwing stones to nuclear weapons and killer drones. merrily Apr 2015 #18

How Many Children Would You Kill Yallow Apr 2015 #6

Remind me: how many barrels of oil did we get from invading Iraq? merrily Apr 2015 #23

The argument made here is that it wasn't so much about 'getting' the oil, as it had to do with Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #27

Thanks. A lot of it did get destroyed. Word was the Arabs did it. merrily Apr 2015 #33

In regards to what you're talking about and the context of the upcoming primary season Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #34

If you mean Hillary, it was addressed--just some months ago, coincidentally. merrily Apr 2015 #36

Damn, I missed that. Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #38

Yep. Finally, yet enough ahead of the primary roll out that it might not leap to mind now. merrily Apr 2015 #39

And 'mistake' can mean many things. Please note that she has never apologized KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #121

Once you vote for a needless war that explodes a region and gives rise to new terrorist groups, etc. merrily Apr 2015 #123

HRC knew better at the time but she chose to place her ambition over humanity. That's KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #124

They all knew better. merrily Apr 2015 #128

We almost never hear about it, do we. Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #9

... BeanMusical Apr 2015 #19

Which war did Barbara Bush start, again? merrily Apr 2015 #24

I never implied that she started any war. BeanMusical Apr 2015 #29

Like all those in Congress who did that when theyvoted to start the Iraq War without a clue how to merrily Apr 2015 #35

Delayed reaction: merrily Apr 2015 #69

Right, precisely. Warren DeMontague Apr 2015 #26

So many Americans don't give it a second thought. LuvNewcastle Apr 2015 #32

I asked a few right wing coworkers and their answer..... yeoman6987 Apr 2015 #78

When I ask, bvar22 Apr 2015 #132

If you want to stop this sort of thing, you'll need to stop being staggered, struggle4progress Apr 2015 #13

I have one good way to begin to stop it. Bonobo Apr 2015 #22

Maybe you should read up on the 1912 Basel Congress: the members of the Second International struggle4progress Apr 2015 #37

I can see you have worked hard to rationalize you position and I respect that. Bonobo Apr 2015 #41

In his essay, Bonhoeffer quite rightly points out that one has an obligation struggle4progress Apr 2015 #50

Yes, we do have that obligation. What are you doing to meet it, assuming you are as horrified as sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #109

I love your comments. Thank you. betsuni Apr 2015 #47

Wars against other nations don't start from the bottom up. merrily Apr 2015 #62

Yes, clearly, government does not respond quickly to public opinion, if at all, merrily Apr 2015 #28

There is no one such thing as "government" here, so it is unlikely to figure prominently struggle4progress Apr 2015 #44

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Bonobo Apr 2015 #45

There was nothing wrong with protesting the war, but it proved ineffective struggle4progress Apr 2015 #52

Ineffective in that it didn't stop the war, bvar22 Apr 2015 #98

As the war dragged on and our defeat started looming ever larger, my protest tactics KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #125

As to war, the two such things as goverment here are Congress and the President. merrily Apr 2015 #46

Congress consists of 535 distinct persons, whose views are not entirely homogeneous struggle4progress Apr 2015 #48

I know, but no idea how that relates to your suggestions for how to get merrily Apr 2015 #60

If there is no way to fight back, then how on earth are people supposed to keep that obligation to sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #112

+++ I'm with you. bvar22 Apr 2015 #133

No I didn't really notice that, though I did notice that were an awful lot of Republicans in sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #142

They count their money!! RandiFan1290 Apr 2015 #21

Evil Sith Lord Dick Cheney will go to hell. B Calm Apr 2015 #30

Oh god how I long for the days when I could tell myself it was just "him" and "them". Bonobo Apr 2015 #31

I hear that! What in hell was I thinkin'? merrily Apr 2015 #42

This message was self-deleted by its author bvf Apr 2015 #49

Yes, if we rid the world of evil people, we'll have peace jberryhill Apr 2015 #58

If we round them up into one place, it will be easier to know who they are. nt msanthrope Apr 2015 #63

How about we just prosecute our own lying war criminals and keep our noses out of other people's sabrina 1 Apr 2015 #106

I wrote this poem for Bush/Cheney when they left office: Martin Eden Apr 2015 #104

Sad, but... Mike Nelson Apr 2015 #40

You know this is a PRIMARY and no one is talking about reasons to vote Republican, right? merrily Apr 2015 #43

Whose straw man are you trying to beat up, there? FiveGoodMen Apr 2015 #99

Strawman. But it's also no reason not to vote at all. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #113

You paint and hunt sometimes shooting your hunting partner liberal N proud Apr 2015 #51

Forgive me for saying this, but Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #53

I know you don't mean this, but that seems like an attempt to hijack this thread or get it locked merrily Apr 2015 #54

I definitely don't think this thread should be locked. Not at all....but I'll say this... Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #56

IP or pms seems like the place for you to get that clarification. merrily Apr 2015 #57

You are right, it is unusual. I don't think most folks, when they read a thread go still_one Apr 2015 #61

I don't support Israel's apartheid policies. Bonobo Apr 2015 #64

During the invasion of Gaza last year, you created an OP justifying it Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #93

That has nothing to do with apartheid issues. Bonobo Apr 2015 #100

If you're opposed to apartheid, then..... Cali_Democrat Apr 2015 #107

I would be happy to discuss this with you Bonobo Apr 2015 #108

wut? JaneyVee Apr 2015 #59

we have forgotten about the millions killed in North Viet Nam... Javaman Apr 2015 #66

We are also responsible for the rise of Pol Pot in Cambodia, bvar22 Apr 2015 #135

Our leaders have to do terrifying arithmetic to avoid being portrayed as weak. Orsino Apr 2015 #67

No thanks. Democratic peons like me didn't berate anyone for being "doves," only for being merrily Apr 2015 #70

It is us, too, if to a lesser extent. Orsino Apr 2015 #73

"Our candidates feel they have to posture like hawks even when wooing Democrats." merrily Apr 2015 #74

The Third Way controls too much of the party, and has for a long time. There's your answer. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #114

Maybe, but that was a top down thing. It wasn't that hawkish Democratic voters pressured merrily Apr 2015 #116

Sorry, but some are far more concerned with how to make the rich get even richer. Rex Apr 2015 #71

You label it "collateral damage" and act like it didn't happen. ScreamingMeemie Apr 2015 #72

With the knowledge I did what little I could to stop it. raouldukelives Apr 2015 #75

cheney wears it like a badge of honor spanone Apr 2015 #79

white men ruling from oh, the beginning of time. mass murders, slavery, .... seabeyond Apr 2015 #80

is that NM_Birder Apr 2015 #83

you can figure out history, yourself. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #84

clever. and a little racist. NM_Birder Apr 2015 #86

??? you are accusing me of being racist? then explain HOW i am being racist. seabeyond Apr 2015 #88

He is the pot in this pot/kettle thing. bravenak Apr 2015 #127

Pol Pot was white ? huh, that what you figured ? NM_Birder Apr 2015 #87

in a nation that was not white, he was a man.... right? this is not rocket science shit. seabeyond Apr 2015 #89

Agreed that the narrative you are pursuing is not any kind of science. Bonx Apr 2015 #90

no. that would simply be history, lol. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #91

White men in power. Or simply men in power, more broadly. n/t nomorenomore08 Apr 2015 #115

Thank you. This OP is very curious, *especially* considering the source YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #136

excellent. yes. and thank you, back at you for dotting the i's and crossing the t's. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #137

History Lesson: bvar22 Apr 2015 #143

Money trumps peace. Octafish Apr 2015 #81

Lady Macbeth: JEB Apr 2015 #85

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Apr 2015 #92

who are "they"? seabeyond Apr 2015 #95

Post says right there, babs bush and her clan. Octafish Apr 2015 #118

No. i do not think he was referring to babs and the repugs. seabeyond Apr 2015 #141

I can't live with it, but I know why others can Scootaloo Apr 2015 #101

K&R. NO more corporatists and warmongers. woo me with science Apr 2015 #102

Please understand. There is a THIRD WAY of looking at what is important Zorra Apr 2015 #105

Iraq is a drop in the bucket. 50 years ago, we killed 2-3 KingCharlemagne Apr 2015 #122

IF I think on it much Mira Apr 2015 #126

Shit, HRC's best friend hifiguy Apr 2015 #134

Approximately 160,000 people die every day dumbcat Apr 2015 #138

How, you ask? YoungDemCA Apr 2015 #139

"A million people killed. Damn. How do you live with it?" EX500rider Apr 2015 #140