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In reply to the discussion: The President's Unseemly Attacks On Progressives DEFY LOGIC [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)165. Only the Senate Resolution of the draft is available. It's in a link in this article:
Elizabeth Warren is Not Telling the Truth About The Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal
...When Senator Warren calls TPP a top secret deal, shes not telling you the truth. Any member of Congress can see it now, and before Congress votes on it, the final deal will be posted online for 60 days. What we can see now is the USTR summary of the deal, which, granted, isnt the deal, but it isnt nothing.
Finally, when Senator Warren says that the TPA bill leaves us virtually no ability to stop it from the Senate or the House, or concern-trolls about fixing a final deal through an amendments process that TPA shuts off, shes not telling you the truth. The final deal, after its 60-day public review period, will receive an up-or-down vote, which means Congress can quite easily stop the deal. It just means that a minority in Congress cant obstruct the deal. Ditto the amendments, which would not be a way to fix a final deal since the other 11 nations involved would also insist on that authority, irreparably gumming up the negotiations. Amendments, in this case, are a way to obstruct a final deal. See nuclear deal, Iran once again.
So, Elizabeth Warren may be right, TPP could end up being a horrible deal, and shes right not to trust Republican majorities in both chambers to put a stop to a bad deal, but what shes doing right now is eroding any trust Democrats ought to have in her. President Obama, on the other hand, has been open and honest about what he expects to be in the final deal, which we will all get to see and verify before anyone votes on it.
In the end, though, it boils down to trust. There will be a TPP with or without us*, and if youre going to trust anyone to get us a good deal, it should be the person who is telling you the truth now, not the one who is nakedly deceiving you.
When ones goes to the link I underlined in the first paragraph I posted here, USTR summary of the deal it automatically uploads a 113 page PDF to your computer. Don't worry, it's not a virus or anything:
http://thedailybanter.com/2015/04/elizabeth-warren-is-not-telling-the-truth-about-the-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal/
*Because the other nations have been working on this for dozen years. It's like the Iran treaty the GOP tried to scuttle, where the UK, China, Russia, France and the rest were going to have that deal no matter what. And make us look like idiots.
It also goes into the start of the bogus little 'he's a sexist meme' going around and since being expanded upon. It comes from MSM, owned by billionaires, and RFing, like Death, never takes a holiday.
Hey, there an election to steal, and 'manufactured consent' by putting out outrages, one after another, gives the GOP an alternative reality to push that whoever our candidates in 2016, Democrats hated them, so that means the GOP really will win the presidency in 2016.
Hasn't Obama invaded Texas yet? That one didn't have much staying power. But it was cool while it lasted.
Crashed the Economy? Well, not yet, but you know he wants to.
Declared WW3 or declared thermonuclear war on Russia? Well, apparently not.
Deported all the Muslims or jailed all the Patriots? Sure he'll get around to it.
Signed KXL? Well, no, and after stalling for his entire term of office under grave political threats, he vetoed it when it came up to his dek, but don't let that get in the way of a damned good shit storm. Go, drama!
Thrown grandma off a cliff? Uh, no, that's Paul Ryan's gig.
Stolen the right to vote? Uh, that's not his deal, either.
Made being gay and owning guns illegal? Any day now, folks, any day. It's a-coming.
And privatized Social Security? Well no, and hell no.
Let the entire government shut down just for the hell of it? See Cruz, Paul, Cornyn. Even if you make a scrabble word of their names, still won't spell Obama.
Oh, well, there's always the next poutrage du jour!
(BTW, thanks for the update, I am just blown away. I bow to you, Sir, I bow! And you know I say that sincerely.)
...When Senator Warren calls TPP a top secret deal, shes not telling you the truth. Any member of Congress can see it now, and before Congress votes on it, the final deal will be posted online for 60 days. What we can see now is the USTR summary of the deal, which, granted, isnt the deal, but it isnt nothing.
Finally, when Senator Warren says that the TPA bill leaves us virtually no ability to stop it from the Senate or the House, or concern-trolls about fixing a final deal through an amendments process that TPA shuts off, shes not telling you the truth. The final deal, after its 60-day public review period, will receive an up-or-down vote, which means Congress can quite easily stop the deal. It just means that a minority in Congress cant obstruct the deal. Ditto the amendments, which would not be a way to fix a final deal since the other 11 nations involved would also insist on that authority, irreparably gumming up the negotiations. Amendments, in this case, are a way to obstruct a final deal. See nuclear deal, Iran once again.
So, Elizabeth Warren may be right, TPP could end up being a horrible deal, and shes right not to trust Republican majorities in both chambers to put a stop to a bad deal, but what shes doing right now is eroding any trust Democrats ought to have in her. President Obama, on the other hand, has been open and honest about what he expects to be in the final deal, which we will all get to see and verify before anyone votes on it.
In the end, though, it boils down to trust. There will be a TPP with or without us*, and if youre going to trust anyone to get us a good deal, it should be the person who is telling you the truth now, not the one who is nakedly deceiving you.
When ones goes to the link I underlined in the first paragraph I posted here, USTR summary of the deal it automatically uploads a 113 page PDF to your computer. Don't worry, it's not a virus or anything:
http://thedailybanter.com/2015/04/elizabeth-warren-is-not-telling-the-truth-about-the-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal/
*Because the other nations have been working on this for dozen years. It's like the Iran treaty the GOP tried to scuttle, where the UK, China, Russia, France and the rest were going to have that deal no matter what. And make us look like idiots.
It also goes into the start of the bogus little 'he's a sexist meme' going around and since being expanded upon. It comes from MSM, owned by billionaires, and RFing, like Death, never takes a holiday.
Hey, there an election to steal, and 'manufactured consent' by putting out outrages, one after another, gives the GOP an alternative reality to push that whoever our candidates in 2016, Democrats hated them, so that means the GOP really will win the presidency in 2016.
Hasn't Obama invaded Texas yet? That one didn't have much staying power. But it was cool while it lasted.
Crashed the Economy? Well, not yet, but you know he wants to.
Declared WW3 or declared thermonuclear war on Russia? Well, apparently not.
Deported all the Muslims or jailed all the Patriots? Sure he'll get around to it.
Signed KXL? Well, no, and after stalling for his entire term of office under grave political threats, he vetoed it when it came up to his dek, but don't let that get in the way of a damned good shit storm. Go, drama!
Thrown grandma off a cliff? Uh, no, that's Paul Ryan's gig.
Stolen the right to vote? Uh, that's not his deal, either.
Made being gay and owning guns illegal? Any day now, folks, any day. It's a-coming.
And privatized Social Security? Well no, and hell no.
Let the entire government shut down just for the hell of it? See Cruz, Paul, Cornyn. Even if you make a scrabble word of their names, still won't spell Obama.
Oh, well, there's always the next poutrage du jour!
(BTW, thanks for the update, I am just blown away. I bow to you, Sir, I bow! And you know I say that sincerely.)
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I have one hand clapping...Zen...and two hands clapping...not Zen. Nail, meet Head. n/t
libdem4life
May 2015
#1
So your entire political outlook could be written in 6 lines of BASIC.
DisgustipatedinCA
May 2015
#171
I hope the Democratic Left uses this OPPORTUNITY for all it is worth:
BlancheSplanchnik
May 2015
#174
Not liberal DU? Perhaps you should read the About page linked at the bottom of every DU page.
A Simple Game
May 2015
#88
When DU was back in DU 1.0 I joined...the admin said it was for Liberals AND other Progressives.
HereSince1628
May 2015
#132
You left out Nationalists and xenophobes if you oppose TPP. Also, the 44 Senate Dems and
neverforget
May 2015
#73
I never expected Obama to act like a progressive - he's a Chicago Machine Democrat, after all.
Maedhros
May 2015
#12
So calling the Senator from Massachusetts a liar and just in it for campaign contributions is truth?
BrotherIvan
May 2015
#18
The WH has been trashing Dems since liberals ran ads against Blue Dogs years ago.
polichick
May 2015
#27
Sometimes a Prez has to come out an be truthful. Our economy is going nowhere except down, without
Hoyt
May 2015
#32
You know, you have done more to convince me that I need to leave the Democratic Party than anyone
djean111
May 2015
#109
Yet there is no evidence what these "new approaches" are and if they will help anyone.
arcane1
May 2015
#117
Sometimes it's hard to convince "rank-and-file" Democrats or Republicans of anything.
Hoyt
May 2015
#119
Unfortunate reputations of Democratic "leaders:" Just enough juice to attack their own...
Eleanors38
May 2015
#35
good question. My guess is that with the internet we would have heard the second they did
rurallib
May 2015
#46
Only the Senate Resolution of the draft is available. It's in a link in this article:
freshwest
May 2015
#165
Found 4 more, online now. Problem - big words, long sentences, complex multi-level concepts. Meh!
freshwest
May 2015
#178
When the Left is critical of Obama, bingo bango, they are "bashing". Now that Obama is being
rhett o rick
May 2015
#75
Ok, but when the progressives are "disagreeing" with him, his supporters scream "bashing".
rhett o rick
May 2015
#112
I've seen rhetoric. But NO ONE has come forward to explain how this TPP can possibly help the
rhett o rick
May 2015
#128
If you have something that isn't rhetoric, I would like to see it. But it doesn't exist.
rhett o rick
May 2015
#144
Again, refusing to accept responses doesn't equal no responses proffered ...
1StrongBlackMan
May 2015
#151
Agreed but it will be contracted out to McDonalds for $10,000 per person trained. Tax
rhett o rick
May 2015
#198
Actually, Obama's actions only defy logic if you make certain assumptions
Jackpine Radical
May 2015
#63
I think the White House owes the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party an apology!
raindaddy
May 2015
#80
It does defy logic. Every time I heard him call progressives and espcially Elizabeth Warren out I
jwirr
May 2015
#67
I don't his attacks are any more unseemly than the progressive attacks against him. nt
kelliekat44
May 2015
#85
It's not the first time this President has belittled those who supposedly are on his side, who
sabrina 1
May 2015
#96
dunno, I think its going well. all the members of congress & Sen, can read the working DRAFT.
Sunlei
May 2015
#127
Honestly, it doesn't defy logic, at all. It's the way our government works.
countryjake
May 2015
#131
As the saying goes "It's going to take a Democrat to undo the New Deal"
Dont call me Shirley
May 2015
#149
Politicians should resign when they break away from what they said to get elected.
glinda
May 2015
#154
He is going to be surprised when he goes to join Bill Clinton at the Bush Table,
bvar22
May 2015
#191
Wah wah wah.. poor little "progressives" can't handle straight talk from the President.. oh wait
Cha
May 2015
#159
The lioness has spoken! Don't hold back, let me hear you roar! Love ya, Cha!
freshwest
May 2015
#161
Too true, freshwest.. Too true! Mahalo for that visual.. my son would get a huge kick out of it!
Cha
May 2015
#163
I have to say I didn't expect the comfortable shoes to be made by children. nt
raouldukelives
May 2015
#184