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GliderGuider

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145. Sorry, this should have gone on the OP

Reply to jeff47 (Reply #92)

Thu Jul 9, 2015, 02:15 PM

Jul 2015

Last edited Thu Jul 9, 2015, 06:45 PM - Edit history (1)

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A lot of people here seem to have no clue about what's happening in Greece..... [View all] brooklynite Jul 2015 OP

DU rec... SidDithers Jul 2015 #1

Thamks for the post. Wellstone ruled Jul 2015 #2

Nicely done. A HERETIC I AM Jul 2015 #3

A bit of a logical fallacy. zipplewrath Jul 2015 #8

When I lived there in the 60's.... A HERETIC I AM Jul 2015 #23

you realize your experience is now roughly 50 years old. zipplewrath Jul 2015 #33

Of course I do! A HERETIC I AM Jul 2015 #51

Not only 50 years old JackRiddler Jul 2015 #107

On this I agree: JDPriestly Jul 2015 #75

You know Munificence Jul 2015 #168

The banks had to know what would happen with that policy. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #178

well by that government hill2016 Jul 2015 #181

That was the Bush government -- anti-regulation. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #183

well hill2016 Jul 2015 #184

Unless they are redlining communities by racial prevalence, individual loans are and should JDPriestly Jul 2015 #185

There is a lot of maintaining of fiction to be done DFW Jul 2015 #59

Except that a healthy Greece is in Germany's interest. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #81

Some of that yes, some I disagree with DFW Jul 2015 #87

Western European and American values about good government developed JDPriestly Jul 2015 #99

Forgiveness will become involuntary and stretching out the debt is a myth DFW Jul 2015 #113

I so wish that I was not on an extended trip zipplewrath Jul 2015 #174

You could spend a week on that subject DFW Jul 2015 #189

"From the ECB? Their rules prohibit them from propping up failed banks." magical thyme Jul 2015 #88

I think you found it. timdog44 Jul 2015 #77

fair enough to point out the greece is corrupt and inefficient, but we all have problems there. unblock Jul 2015 #21

And I think most Americans would be surprised at how little income is reported in the US erronis Jul 2015 #28

The frolicking lords hate it when the sheep frolic too Fumesucker Jul 2015 #90

What is the lost tax revenue as a percent of GDP? Taitertots Jul 2015 #63

Some important economists explain: JDPriestly Jul 2015 #70

This is a great source to understand what is going on, Agnosticsherbet Jul 2015 #4

Thanks to you... quickesst Jul 2015 #5

Thanks a lot FlaGatorJD Jul 2015 #6

Why fail to mention Goldman Sachs by name since they were obviously very involved. think Jul 2015 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #10

Why does it matter which firm the Greek govt paid to do that? Recursion Jul 2015 #15

The 1st question the OP addressed was who was to blame. Doesn't Goldman Sachs share in that blame? think Jul 2015 #31

The people that caused the global economic disaster don't want to talk about lenders, just the Rex Jul 2015 #20

Robert Reich discusses it: elleng Jul 2015 #24

Thanks. Everywhere I look I see the stench of rampant capitalism erronis Jul 2015 #34

Thank you! Robert Reich's comments on GS's involvement are golden! /nt think Jul 2015 #40

Greece owes over 320 billion euros. Calista241 Jul 2015 #122

But a convenient bogeyman makes this whole thing so much easier. stevenleser Jul 2015 #123

Ah yes, when in doubt, blame a bank. Calista241 Jul 2015 #133

When a bank colludes to conceal a country's debt they shouldn't take any blame? think Jul 2015 #136

That poster asserted out that GS was involved with 2% of Greek debt. That barely warrants a mention stevenleser Jul 2015 #139

Who suggested GS is completely to blame? No one here has suggested that. think Jul 2015 #141

I didn't say that either. Calista241 Jul 2015 #140

Goldman Sachs started intervening in 2001 not 2005. And GS's role in hiding that debt allowed think Jul 2015 #144

GS has it's enablers, just because you know...the enormously wealthy need to be defended Rex Jul 2015 #124

Excellent explanation. greatauntoftriplets Jul 2015 #9

great post, though i disagree about the referendum -- unblock Jul 2015 #11

The opinion also lost me dismissing the referendum as a "huge mistake", forgetting that having Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #29

we, i understand why the *creditors* are calling it a huge mistake... unblock Jul 2015 #36

I think it is a mistake, insofar as.... Adrahil Jul 2015 #48

i don't think the greeks are expecting magic, i think they know there will be pain regardless. unblock Jul 2015 #49

In my experience, the public is not so nuanced in its thinking. Adrahil Jul 2015 #53

some austerity and righting of the ship has already happened, and there are other plans unblock Jul 2015 #54

because the OPer predicted that the vote would be 70% yes to more austerity. magical thyme Jul 2015 #115

70% prediction, turning out completely wrong? That has gotta hurt! Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #117

70% sounds about right for how wrong the OP usually is on any given topic. Rex Jul 2015 #121

It's his job to defend the wealthy. On that he is 100% LondonReign2 Jul 2015 #146

Good read underpants Jul 2015 #12

K&R Glassunion Jul 2015 #13

what needs to happen is a managed withdrawal from the Euro geek tragedy Jul 2015 #14

Honestly the Eurozone is a reality show at this point Recursion Jul 2015 #17

No kidding. pretty expensive show to produce nt geek tragedy Jul 2015 #25

It brought us Eurovision. joshcryer Jul 2015 #39

It's times like these that I wish I knew enough about video editing to.., Taitertots Jul 2015 #80

I'll do the voiceover Recursion Jul 2015 #83

I feel like somehow this is going to affect us here. craigmatic Jul 2015 #16

Greek vacations will probably get really cheap. Recursion Jul 2015 #22

Greece owed (as of March) the IMF 32 Billion Euros OnlinePoker Jul 2015 #42

We're on the hook for some of the IMF loans n/t Yo_Mama Jul 2015 #79

K&R! Dr Hobbitstein Jul 2015 #18

from Robert Reich elleng Jul 2015 #19

A lot of people will ignore that post, because it is negative about teh 1% and we cannot have that. Rex Jul 2015 #27

yeah so hill2016 Jul 2015 #100

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #102

why not hill2016 Jul 2015 #106

LOL! Notice their tiny dig at Grayson? Rex Jul 2015 #116

"But it was totally leeee-gal" LondonReign2 Jul 2015 #148

Lloyd Blankfein called, said this is a great article. Explains it perfecly. Wants his money. n/t jtuck004 Jul 2015 #26

+1000 nt abelenkpe Jul 2015 #85

Nailed it! magical thyme Jul 2015 #118

+++ LondonReign2 Jul 2015 #150

Lol! neverforget Jul 2015 #155

What I want to know is... joshcryer Jul 2015 #30

Greece could have asked for that 50/50 deal, they wouldn't have gotten it geek tragedy Jul 2015 #38

One very good reason DFW Jul 2015 #44

knr! retrowire Jul 2015 #32

If you bought this explanation abelenkpe Jul 2015 #84

no no no retrowire Jul 2015 #86

WHOA, HOLD ON THERE!! ellennelle Jul 2015 #35

In order to jump start their economy, they have to go deeper into recession? Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #37

+1 Enthusiast Jul 2015 #67

EDIT: they can eat stray olive leaves...at their salons LondonReign2 Jul 2015 #151

Thank you, thank you Brooklynite...and a big "thanks" to your wife, too. Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #41

oh good grief!!! ellennelle Jul 2015 #47

Beg pardon? To what might you be referring? Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #50

Don't worry. If someone alerts and it is shot down 7-0, Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #62

Well, that does mollify me somewhat, Nye. Thanks for the soothing message... Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #69

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #97

That wasn't the point of that post. Renew Deal Jul 2015 #64

But, it WAS the point of a post addressed personally to me in my OP by the same poster, Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #72

it's a simple problem to avoid Surya. Reply to facts with facts, not bigotry and name calling. magical thyme Jul 2015 #126

To conflate a sovereign nation's democratically elected government Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #128

bs. Just replacing one group of people being smeared with another group of people. magical thyme Jul 2015 #129

And, congratulations on beating your Trojan Horse Surya Gayatri Jul 2015 #130

you raised the subject, not me. magical thyme Jul 2015 #131

An interesting take on the Greek crisis and IMF: Saviolo Jul 2015 #43

was just about to add this link ellennelle Jul 2015 #46

I still believe Greece should default. WDIM Jul 2015 #45

Going without imports would include going without most medicines Yo_Mama Jul 2015 #78

Well, if they are such a tiny insignificant country dumbcat Jul 2015 #95

I sure don't. cwydro Jul 2015 #52

Thanks brooklynite. (nt) pinto Jul 2015 #55

pensions have already been cut by 44%. magical thyme Jul 2015 #56

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2015 #61

that prediction was off a little neverforget Jul 2015 #98

So you attack him personally upthread and here you attack his wife. What do you have for an encore? stevenleser Jul 2015 #135

Actually we don't have kids... brooklynite Jul 2015 #175

I alerted on both posts and found others had previously alerted but they were upheld 4-3 stevenleser Jul 2015 #176

Anyone buying the OP's explanation needs to read your post. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2015 #94

That is the point of the 1%, the reason they exist, ME! ME! ME! MINE!!! LeftOfWest Jul 2015 #179

I agree on this! JDPriestly Jul 2015 #57

Excellent post, thank you! BlueEye Jul 2015 #58

4. Greece needs to leave the euro and default on all their foreign debt Taitertots Jul 2015 #60

would you feel the same way hill2016 Jul 2015 #105

Would a better referendum question have been as follows? Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #65

You Make It Sound Like the ECB, EC, and the IMF are Honest Brokers mckara Jul 2015 #66

It really is a colossal mess. EEO Jul 2015 #68

Sorry, no. There is fault aplenty to go around . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #71

by your argument hill2016 Jul 2015 #104

Of course not . . . markpkessinger Jul 2015 #109

does anyone remember when du became overrun with posts that could have come Doctor_J Jul 2015 #73

Should working-class Germans pay taxes to subsidize working-class Greeks? Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #74

Should working-class New Yorkers pay taxes to subsidize working-class Kansans? Fumesucker Jul 2015 #91

Yep. And in a federalized Europe, this would not be an issue. Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #96

I suppose they should hang on to those subs though,...right? Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #76

Hey brooklynite - thanks for this! calimary Jul 2015 #82

That doesn't mean they shouldn't proclaim their opinions. MineralMan Jul 2015 #89

You're missing something in your "blame" section. jeff47 Jul 2015 #92

did you know hill2016 Jul 2015 #101

Did you know that isn't actually true? jeff47 Jul 2015 #114

Actually, it is true. 90% of private debt contributed to the writedown. stevenleser Jul 2015 #134

That was after the Greeks had nationalized much of the debt. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2015 #152

I thought hill2016 Jul 2015 #182

It was. And then a large part of it was paid to private banks. jeff47 Jul 2015 #186

sorry hill2016 Jul 2015 #187

Yes. Greece had a housing bubble similar to Florida. jeff47 Jul 2015 #188

Sorry, this should have gone on the OP GliderGuider Jul 2015 #145

rec.. it is complicated. thx for summary Liberal_in_LA Jul 2015 #93

I heard something on Charlie Rose from an American correspondent in Greece frazzled Jul 2015 #103

If Greece decides to go on its own, they better beg to get in on theTPP. Hoyt Jul 2015 #108

Seriously? Move Greece from the Mediterranean and Aegean magical thyme Jul 2015 #127

Knew some folks wouldn't get it. Hoyt Jul 2015 #132

care to explain how or why Greece should try to join the Trans Pacific Partnership? magical thyme Jul 2015 #153

Because they need to be in every trade agreement they can get into. I don't think Hoyt Jul 2015 #154

well if you had a clue you might have suggested they try to join TTIP magical thyme Jul 2015 #156

Greece needs the one that is closest to being finalized, if you had a clue. Hoyt Jul 2015 #161

they're not a member of the Asia Pacific Economic Cooperative, and never will be magical thyme Jul 2015 #165

Look, my point was Greece needs as many damn trade deals as they can get. No more living off Hoyt Jul 2015 #167

I gave you an obvious way out. you could have just said "the ttip instead of tpp" magical thyme Jul 2015 #172

I don't think that's the problem... brooklynite Jul 2015 #159

They could use some investment from foreign companies, but who is going to go there unless Hoyt Jul 2015 #162

What? MFrohike Jul 2015 #110

well hill2016 Jul 2015 #111

Answers MFrohike Jul 2015 #171

Regarding the consequences of #3, going back to the drachma bhikkhu Jul 2015 #112

Thank you for answering these questions! Miserable state of affairs for all. n/t freshwest Jul 2015 #119

You mean that 70% were going to vote Yes to Moar Austerity Please? magical thyme Jul 2015 #120

Nobody here buys anything the OP is selling. Rex Jul 2015 #125

Observation 1: You chose to attack me rather than my analysis brooklynite Jul 2015 #157

Both cuts to austerity and a debt write-off are required. magical thyme Jul 2015 #163

NOBODY buys it. Thank you. LeftOfWest Jul 2015 #180

Apparently then, neither does the Greek Government brooklynite Jul 2015 #158

neither does the Troika...what? magical thyme Jul 2015 #160

Oh how sad, the OP says I attack them when I just point out the obvious everyone else notices. Rex Jul 2015 #164

Perhaps instead of insulting me... brooklynite Jul 2015 #170

Why is everyone thanking your wife? whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #137

She's the tax/finance expert who explained a lot of the details to me brooklynite Jul 2015 #142

Dig. I just reread your post whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #147

No idea, I guess people will just about believe anything they read on the Internets. Rex Jul 2015 #166

kick... Blue_Tires Jul 2015 #138

We bailed out the crooks from Wall Street who caused our recession fadedrose Jul 2015 #143

The people and government of Greece have no idea whats going on. CK_John Jul 2015 #149

-1 GliderGuider Jul 2015 #169

Yep, if only they would arrest Lloyd Blankfein, Nye Bevan Jul 2015 #173

Thanks for the information architect359 Jul 2015 #177