Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

General Discussion

In reply to the discussion: BFEE Just Us [View all]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
190. The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism
Thu Jul 9, 2015, 11:51 PM
Jul 2015




The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism

Traditional fascism is defined as a right-wing political system run by a dictator who prohibits dissent and relies on repression. But some analysts believe a new form of fascism has arisen that has a democratic façade and is based on relentless propaganda and endless war, as journalist John Pilger describes.

By John Pilger
ConsortiumNews.com, March 2, 2015

The recent 70th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz was a reminder of the great crime of fascism, whose Nazi iconography is embedded in our consciousness. Fascism is preserved as history, as flickering footage of goose-stepping blackshirts, their criminality terrible and clear. Yet in the same liberal societies, whose war-making elites urge us never to forget, the accelerating danger of a modern kind of fascism is suppressed; for it is their fascism.

“To initiate a war of aggression…,” said the Nuremberg Tribunal judges in 1946, “is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime, differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

Had the Nazis not invaded Europe, Auschwitz and the Holocaust would not have happened. Had the United States and its satellites not initiated their war of aggression in Iraq in 2003, almost a million people would be alive today; and Islamic State, or ISIS, would not have us in thrall to its savagery. They are the progeny of modern fascism, weaned by the bombs, bloodbaths and lies that are the surreal theatre known as news.

Like the fascism of the 1930s and 1940s, big lies are delivered with the precision of a metronome: thanks to an omnipresent, repetitive media and its virulent censorship by omission. Take the catastrophe in Libya.

In 2011, Nato launched 9,700 “strike sorties” against Libya, of which more than a third were aimed at civilian targets. Uranium warheads were used; the cities of Misurata and Sirte were carpet-bombed. The Red Cross identified mass graves, and Unicef reported that “most [of the children killed] were under the age of ten.”

Gaddafi’s Torture/Lynching

The public sodomizing of the Libyan president Muammar Gaddafi with a “rebel” bayonet was greeted by the then U.S. Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton, with the words: “We came, we saw, he died.” His murder, like the destruction of his country, was justified with a familiar big lie; he was planning “genocide” against his own people.

“We knew … that if we waited one more day,” said President Barack Obama, “Benghazi, a city the size of Charlotte, could suffer a massacre that would have reverberated across the region and stained the conscience of the world.”

This was the fabrication of Islamist militias facing defeat by Libyan government forces. They told Reuters there would be “a real bloodbath, a massacre like we saw in Rwanda.” Reported on March 14, 2011, the lie provided the first spark for NATO’s inferno, described by David Cameron as a “humanitarian intervention.”

Secretly supplied and trained by Britain’s SAS, many of the “rebels” would become ISIS, whose latest video offering shows the beheading of 21 Coptic Christian workers seized in Sirte, the city destroyed on their behalf by NATO bombers.

For Obama, Cameron and Hollande, Gaddafi’s true crime was Libya’s economic independence and his declared intention to stop selling Africa’s greatest oil reserves in U.S. dollars. The petrodollar is a pillar of American imperial power.

Gaddafi audaciously planned to underwrite a common African currency backed by gold, establish an all-Africa bank and promote economic union among poor countries with prized resources. Whether or not this would happen, the very notion was intolerable to the U.S. as it prepared to “enter” Africa and bribe African governments with military “partnerships.”

Following NATO’s attack under cover of a Security Council resolution, Obama, wrote Garikai Chengu, “confiscated $30 billion from Libya’s Central Bank, which Gaddafi had earmarked for the establishment of an African Central Bank and the African gold backed dinar currency.”

The Kosovo Model

The “humanitarian war” against Libya drew on a model close to western liberal hearts, especially in the media. In 1999, Bill Clinton and Tony Blair sent NATO to bomb Serbia, because, they lied, the Serbs were committing “genocide” against ethnic Albanians in the secessionist province of Kosovo.

David Scheffer, U.S. ambassador-at-large for war crimes [sic], claimed that as many as “225,000 ethnic Albanian men aged between 14 and 59″ might have been murdered. Both Clinton and Blair evoked the Holocaust and “the spirit of the Second World War.”

The West’s heroic allies were the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), whose criminal record was set aside. The British Foreign Secretary, Robin Cook, told them to call him any time on his mobile phone.

With the NATO bombing over, and much of Serbia’s infrastructure in ruins, along with schools, hospitals, monasteries and the national TV station, international forensic teams descended upon Kosovo to exhume evidence of the “holocaust.” The FBI failed to find a single mass grave and went home. The Spanish forensic team did the same, its leader angrily denouncing “a semantic pirouette by the war propaganda machines.”

A year later, a United Nations tribunal on Yugoslavia announced the final count of the dead in Kosovo: 2,788. This included combatants on both sides and Serbs and Roma murdered by the KLA. There was no genocide. The “holocaust” was a lie. The NATO attack had been fraudulent.

Expanding Markets

Behind the lie, there was serious purpose. Yugoslavia was a uniquely independent, multi-ethnic federation that had stood as a political and economic bridge in the Cold War. Most of its utilities and major manufacturing was publicly owned. This was not acceptable to the expanding European Community, especially newly united Germany, which had begun a drive east to capture its “natural market” in the Yugoslav provinces of Croatia and Slovenia.

By the time the Europeans met at Maastricht in 1991 to lay their plans for the disastrous eurozone, a secret deal had been struck; Germany would recognize Croatia. Yugoslavia was doomed.

In Washington, the U.S. saw that the struggling Yugoslav economy was denied World Bank loans. NATO, then an almost defunct Cold War relic, was reinvented as imperial enforcer. At a 1999 Kosovo “peace” conference in Rambouillet, in France, the Serbs were subjected to the enforcer’s duplicitous tactics.

The Rambouillet accord included a secret Annex B, which the U.S. delegation inserted on the last day. This demanded the military occupation of the whole of Yugoslavia — a country with bitter memories of the Nazi occupation — and the implementation of a “free-market economy” and the privatization of all government assets. No sovereign state could sign this. Punishment followed swiftly; NATO bombs fell on a defenseless country. It was the precursor to the catastrophes in Afghanistan and Iraq, Syria and Libya, and Ukraine.

American Interventions

Since 1945, more than a third of the membership of the United Nations – 69 countries – have suffered some or all of the following at the hands of America’s modern fascism. They have been invaded, their governments overthrown, their popular movements suppressed, their elections subverted, their people bombed and their economies stripped of all protection, their societies subjected to a crippling siege known as “sanctions.” The British historian Mark Curtis estimates the death toll in the millions. In every case, a big lie was deployed.

“Tonight, for the first time since 9/11, our combat mission in Afghanistan is over.” These were opening words of Obama’s 2015 State of the Union address. In fact, some 10,000 troops and 20,000 military contractors (mercenaries) remain in Afghanistan on indefinite assignment.

“The longest war in American history is coming to a responsible conclusion,” said Obama. In fact, more civilians were killed in Afghanistan in 2014 than in any year since the UN took records. The majority have been killed — civilians and soldiers — during Obama’s time as president.

The tragedy of Afghanistan rivals the epic crime in Indochina. In his lauded and much quoted book, The Grand Chessboard: American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives, Zbigniew Brzezinski, the godfather of U.S. policies from Afghanistan to the present day, writes that if America is to control Eurasia and dominate the world, it cannot sustain a popular democracy, because “the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion. . . . Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization.” He is right.

As WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden have revealed, a surveillance and police state is usurping democracy. In 1976, Brzezinski, then President Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor, demonstrated his point by dealing a death blow to Afghanistan’s first and only democracy. Who knows this vital history?

Afghan’s Shining Moment

In the 1960s, a popular revolution swept Afghanistan, the poorest country on earth, eventually overthrowing the vestiges of the aristocratic regime in 1978. The People’s Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA) formed a government and declared a reform program that included the abolition of feudalism, freedom for all religions, equal rights for women and social justice for the ethnic minorities. More than 13,000 political prisoners were freed and police files publicly burned.

The new government introduced free medical care for the poorest; peonage was abolished, a mass literacy programme was launched. For women, the gains were unheard of. By the late 1980s, half the university students were women, and women made up almost half of Afghanistan’s doctors, a third of civil servants and the majority of teachers.

“Every girl,” recalled Saira Noorani, a female surgeon, “could go to high school and university. We could go where we wanted and wear what we liked. We used to go to cafes and the cinema to see the latest Indian film on a Friday and listen to the latest music. It all started to go wrong when the mujaheddin started winning. They used to kill teachers and burn schools. We were terrified. It was funny and sad to think these were the people the West supported.”

The PDPA government was backed by the Soviet Union, even though, as former Secretary of State Cyrus Vance later admitted, “there was no evidence of any Soviet complicity [in the revolution].” Alarmed by the growing confidence of liberation movements throughout the world, Brzezinski decided that if Afghanistan was to succeed under the PDPA, its independence and progress would offer the “threat of a promising example.”

On July 3, 1979, the White House secretly authorized support for tribal “fundamentalist” groups known as the mujaheddin, a program that grew to over $500 million a year in U.S. arms and other assistance. The aim was the overthrow of Afghanistan’s first secular, reformist government.

In August 1979, the U.S. Embassy in Kabul reported that “the United States’ larger interests … would be served by the demise of [the PDPA government], despite whatever setbacks this might mean for future social and economic reforms in Afghanistan.” The italics are mine.

The mujaheddin were the forebears of al-Qaeda and Islamic State. They included Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who received tens of millions of dollars in cash from the CIA. Hekmatyar’s specialty was trafficking in opium and throwing acid in the faces of women who refused to wear the veil. Invited to London, he was lauded by Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher as a “freedom fighter.”

Such fanatics might have remained in their tribal world had Brzezinski not launched an international movement to promote Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and so undermine secular political liberation and “destabilize” the Soviet Union, creating, as he wrote in his autobiography, “a few stirred up Muslims.”

His grand plan coincided with the ambitions of the Pakistani dictator, General Zia ul-Haq, to dominate the region. In 1986, the CIA and Pakistan’s intelligence agency, the ISI, began to recruit people from around the world to join the Afghan jihad. The Saudi multi-millionaire Osama bin Laden was one of them.

Operatives who would eventually join the Taliban and al-Qaeda, were recruited at an Islamic college in Brooklyn, New York, and given paramilitary training at a CIA camp in Virginia. This was called “Operation Cyclone.” Its success was celebrated in 1996 when the last PDPA president of Afghanistan, Mohammed Najibullah — who had gone before the UN General Assembly to plead for help — was hanged from a streetlight by the Taliban.

The “blowback” of Operation Cyclone and its “few stirred up Muslims” was September 11, 2001. Operation Cyclone became the “war on terror,” in which countless men, women and children would lose their lives across the Muslim world, from Afghanistan to Iraq, Yemen, Somalia and Syria. The enforcer’s message was and remains: “You are with us or against us.”

Threads of Fascism

The common thread in fascism, past and present, is mass murder. The American invasion of Vietnam had its “free fire zones,” “body counts” and “collateral damage.” In the province of Quang Ngai, where I reported from, many thousands of civilians (“gooks”) were murdered by the U.S.; yet only one massacre, at My Lai, is remembered.

In Laos and Cambodia, the greatest aerial bombardment in history produced an epoch of terror marked today by the spectacle of joined-up bomb craters which, from the air, resemble monstrous necklaces. The bombing gave Cambodia its own ISIS, led by Pol Pot.

Today, the world’s greatest single campaign of terror entails the execution of entire families, guests at weddings, mourners at funerals. These are Obama’s victims. According to the New York Times, Obama makes his selection from a CIA “kill list” presented to him every Tuesday in the White House Situation Room. He then decides, without a shred of legal justification, who will live and who will die. His execution weapon is the Hellfire missile carried by a pilotless aircraft known as a drone; these roast their victims and festoon the area with their remains. Each “hit” is registered on a faraway console screen as a “bugsplat.”

“For goose-steppers,” wrote the historian Norman Pollock, “substitute the seemingly more innocuous militarization of the total culture. And for the bombastic leader, we have the reformer manque, blithely at work, planning and executing assassination, smiling all the while.”

American Exceptionalism

Uniting fascism old and new is the cult of superiority. “I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of my being,” said Obama, evoking declarations of national fetishism from the 1930s.

As the historian Alfred W. McCoy has pointed out, it was the Hitler devotee, Carl Schmitt, who said, “The sovereign is he who decides the exception.” This sums up Americanism, the world’s dominant ideology. That it remains unrecognized as a predatory ideology is the achievement of an equally unrecognized brainwashing. Insidious, undeclared, presented wittily as enlightenment on the march, its conceit insinuates western culture.

I grew up on a cinematic diet of American glory, almost all of it a distortion. I had no idea that it was the Red Army that had destroyed most of the Nazi war machine, at a cost of as many as 13 million soldiers. By contrast, U.S. losses, including in the Pacific, were 400,000. Hollywood reversed this.

The difference now is that cinema audiences are invited to wring their hands at the “tragedy” of American psychopaths having to kill people in distant places — just as the President himself kills them. The embodiment of Hollywood’s violence, the actor and director Clint Eastwood, was nominated for an Oscar this year for his movie, American Sniper, which is about a licensed murderer and nutcase. The New York Times described it as a “patriotic, pro-family picture which broke all attendance records in its opening days.”

There are no heroic movies about America’s embrace of fascism. During the Second World War, America (and Britain) went to war against Greeks who had fought heroically against Nazism and were resisting the rise of Greek fascism. In 1967, the CIA helped bring to power a fascist military junta in Athens — as it did in Brazil and most of Latin America.

Germans and east Europeans who had colluded with Nazi aggression and crimes against humanity were given safe haven in the U.S.; many were pampered and their talents rewarded. Wernher von Braun was the “father” of both the Nazi V-2 terror bomb and the U.S. space program.

In the 1990s, as former Soviet republics, eastern Europe and the Balkans became military outposts of NATO, the heirs to a Nazi movement in Ukraine were given their opportunity. Responsible for the deaths of thousands of Jews, Poles and Russians during the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, Ukrainian fascism was rehabilitated and its “new wave” hailed by the enforcer as “nationalists.”

The Ukraine Coup

This reached its apogee in 2014 when the Obama administration splashed out $5 billion on a coup against the elected government. The shock troops were neo-Nazis known as the Right Sector and Svoboda. Their leaders include Oleh Tyahnybok, who has called for a purge of the “Moscow-Jewish mafia” and “other scum,” including gays, feminists and those on the political left.

These fascists are now integrated into the Kiev coup government. The first deputy speaker of the Ukrainian parliament, Andriy Parubiy, a leader of the governing party, is co-founder of Svoboda. On Feb. 14, Parubiy announced he was flying to Washington to get “the USA to give us highly precise modern weaponry.” If he succeeds, it will be seen as an act of war by Russia.

No western leader has spoken up about the revival of fascism in the heart of Europe — with the exception of Vladimir Putin, whose people lost 22 million to a Nazi invasion that came through the borderland of Ukraine. At the recent Munich Security Conference, Obama’s Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs, Victoria Nuland, ranted abuse about European leaders for opposing the U.S. arming of the Kiev regime. She referred to the German Defense Minister as “the minister for defeatism.”

It was Nuland who masterminded the coup in Kiev. The wife of Robert Kagan, a leading “neo-con” luminary who was a co-founder of the Project for the New American Century, which began pushing for the invasion of Iraq in 1998. She was a foreign policy adviser to Vice President Dick Cheney.

Nuland’s coup in Ukraine did not go to plan. NATO was prevented from seizing Russia’s historic, legitimate, warm-water naval base in Crimea. The mostly Russian population of Crimea — illegally annexed to Ukraine by Nikita Krushchev in 1954 — voted overwhelmingly to return to Russia, as they had done in the 1990s. The referendum was voluntary, popular and internationally observed. There was no invasion.

At the same time, the Kiev regime turned on the ethnic Russian population in the east with the ferocity of ethnic cleaning. Deploying neo-Nazi militias in the manner of the Waffen-SS, they bombed and laid to siege cities and towns. They used mass starvation as a weapon, cutting off electricity, freezing bank accounts, stopping social security and pensions.

More than a million refugees fled across the border into Russia. In the western media, they became unpeople escaping “the violence” caused by the “Russian invasion.” The NATO commander, General Breedlove — whose name and actions might have been inspired by Stanley Kubrick’s Dr. Strangelove — announced that 40,000 Russian troops were “massing.” In the age of forensic satellite evidence, he offered none.

Repressing Ethnic Russians

These Russian-speaking and bilingual people of Ukraine – a third of the population – have long sought a federation that reflects the country’s ethnic diversity and is both autonomous and independent of Moscow. Most are not “separatists” but citizens who want to live securely in their homeland and oppose the power grab in Kiev. Their revolt and establishment of autonomous “states” are a reaction to Kiev’s attacks on them. Little of this has been explained to western audiences.

On May 2, 2014, in Odessa, 41 ethnic Russians were burned alive in the trade union headquarters with police standing by. The Right Sector leader Dmytro Yarosh hailed the massacre as “another bright day in our national history.” In the American and British media, this was reported as a “murky tragedy” resulting from “clashes” between “nationalists” (neo-Nazis) and “separatists” (people collecting signatures for a referendum on a federal Ukraine).

The New York Times buried the story, having dismissed as Russian propaganda warnings about the fascist and anti-Semitic policies of Washington’s new clients. The Wall Street Journal damned the victims – “Deadly Ukraine Fire Likely Sparked by Rebels, Government Says.” Obama congratulated the junta for its “restraint.”

If Putin can be provoked into coming to their aid, his pre-ordained “pariah” role in the West will justify the lie that Russia is invading Ukraine. On Jan. 29, Ukraine’s top military commander, General Viktor Muzhemko, almost inadvertently dismissed the very basis for U.S. and EU sanctions on Russia when he told a news conference emphatically: “The Ukrainian army is not fighting with the regular units of the Russian Army.” There were “individual citizens” who were members of “illegal armed groups,” but there was no Russian invasion. This was not news.

Vadym Prystaiko, Kiev’s Deputy Foreign Minister, has called for “full scale war” with nuclear-armed Russia.

On Feb. 21, U.S. Sen. James Inhofe, a Republican from Oklahoma, introduced a bill that would authorize American arms for the Kiev regime. In his Senate presentation, Inhofe used photographs he claimed were of Russian troops crossing into Ukraine, which have long been exposed as fakes. It was reminiscent of Ronald Reagan’s fake pictures of a Soviet installation in Nicaragua, and Colin Powell’s fake evidence to the UN of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

The intensity of the smear campaign against Russia and the portrayal of its president as a pantomime villain is unlike anything I have known as a reporter. Robert Parry, one of America’s most distinguished investigative journalists, who revealed the Iran-Contra scandal, wrote recently, “No European government, since Adolf Hitler’s Germany, has seen fit to dispatch Nazi storm troopers to wage war on a domestic population, but the Kiev regime has and has done so knowingly. Yet across the West’s media/political spectrum, there has been a studious effort to cover up this reality even to the point of ignoring facts that have been well established. …

“If you wonder how the world could stumble into world war three – much as it did into world war one a century ago – all you need to do is look at the madness over Ukraine that has proved impervious to facts or reason.”

Nuremberg Lessons

In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal prosecutor said of the German media: “The use made by Nazi conspirators of psychological warfare is well known. Before each major aggression, with some few exceptions based on expediency, they initiated a press campaign calculated to weaken their victims and to prepare the German people psychologically for the attack. …

“In the propaganda system of the Hitler State it was the daily press and the radio that were the most important weapons.”

In the Guardian on Feb. 2, Timothy Garton-Ash, an Oxford professor, called, in effect, for a world war. “Putin must be stopped,” said the headline. “And sometimes only guns can stop guns.” He conceded that the threat of war might “nourish a Russian paranoia of encirclement”; but that was fine. He name-checked the military equipment needed for the job and advised his readers that “America has the best kit.”

In 2003, Garton-Ash repeated the propaganda that led to the slaughter in Iraq. Saddam Hussein, he wrote, “has, as [Colin] Powell documented, stockpiled large quantities of horrifying chemical and biological weapons, and is hiding what remains of them. He is still trying to get nuclear ones.” He lauded Blair as a “Gladstonian, Christian liberal interventionist.” In 2006, he wrote, “Now we face the next big test of the West after Iraq: Iran.”

The outbursts — or as Garton-Ash prefers, his “tortured liberal ambivalence” — are not untypical of those in the transatlantic liberal elite who have struck a Faustian deal. The war criminal Blair is their lost leader.

The Guardian, in which Garton-Ash’s piece appeared, published a full-page advertisement for an American Stealth bomber. On a menacing image of the Lockheed Martin monster were the words: “The F-35. GREAT For Britain.” This American “kit” will cost British taxpayers £1.3 billion, its F-model predecessors having slaughtered across the world. In tune with its advertiser, a Guardian editorial has demanded an increase in military spending.

Once again, there is serious purpose. The rulers of the world want Ukraine not only as a missile base; they want its economy. Kiev’s new Finance Minister, Natalie Jaresko, is a former senior U.S. State Department official who was hurriedly given Ukrainian citizenship.

They want Ukraine for its abundant gas; Vice President Joe Biden’s son is on the board of Ukraine’s biggest oil, gas and fracking company. The manufacturers of GM seeds, companies such as the infamous Monsanto, want Ukraine’s rich farming soil.

Above all, they want Ukraine’s mighty neighbor, Russia. They want to Balkanize or dismember Russia and exploit the greatest source of natural gas on earth. As the Arctic ice melts, they want control of the Arctic Ocean and its energy riches, and Russia’s long Arctic land border.

Their man in Moscow used to be Boris Yeltsin, a drunk, who handed his country’s economy to the West. His successor, Putin, has re-established Russia as a sovereign nation; that is his crime.

The responsibility of the rest of us is clear. It is to identify and expose the reckless lies of warmongers and never to collude with them. It is to re-awaken the great popular movements that brought a fragile civilization to modern imperial states. Most important, it is to prevent the conquest of ourselves: our minds, our humanity, our self respect. If we remain silent, victory over us is assured, and a holocaust beckons.

John Pilger is an Australian-British journalist based in London. Pilger’s Web site is: www.johnpilger.com

SOURCE: https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/02/the-rise-of-a-democratic-fascism/

NOTE: Robert Parry and ConsortiumNews allow DUers to post articles in their entirety. This excellent read is an example of why that kindness makes sense for those interested in democracy.



PS: Thank you for the encouraging words, jalan48! You grokking the situation means Justice and Democracy have a fighting chance!

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

BFEE Just Us [View all] Octafish Jul 2015 OP
Sick bastards! Kicking AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #1
It's been a long, long run of helping the Have-Mores become the Have-Most. Octafish Jul 2015 #5
I may not always reply madokie Jul 2015 #7
+1 think Jul 2015 #9
Abso-fvcking-lutely. blm Jul 2015 #85
yes G_j Jul 2015 #241
I tried to warn those around me of these sleezy low grade criminals, I was ridiculed AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #14
your MS Word files must be sorted by greatness snooper2 Jul 2015 #2
Key Word Octafish Jul 2015 #8
k&r questionseverything Jul 2015 #104
You keep on telling it like it is. I'll have your back. shraby Jul 2015 #3
Online Covert Actions Octafish Jul 2015 #16
I'm sorry marym625 Jul 2015 #4
He is one of the folks defending Cosby on the basis of "never convicted" stevenleser Jul 2015 #22
I defended the right to be innocent until proven guilty. Octafish Jul 2015 #29
And in fact one of the things I have noticed on MSNBC is that they are doing exactly that. If they jwirr Jul 2015 #98
Um, if Cosby hsn't been proven guilty, then why... Nitram Jul 2015 #102
Uh, because I think even the worst of the BFEE also deserve a fair trial. Octafish Jul 2015 #208
I don't think anyone has said Cosby doesn't deserve a trial. Nitram Jul 2015 #211
You are trying to smear him for defending justice. He clearly is not defending Mr. Cosby. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #57
Smear him? His hypocrisy on Cosby versus pronouncing the BFEE guilty is staggering stevenleser Jul 2015 #62
I thought Foley was never convicted? Isn't he as innocent as a lamb too? bettyellen Jul 2015 #166
I'll bet if we did searches we would find hundreds of examples when he accused folks of things stevenleser Jul 2015 #192
Then GOOGLE and show, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #205
How many more do you need? We have already mentioned Bush, Cheney and the BFEE. Isn't that enough? stevenleser Jul 2015 #210
So, you've got nothing. Octafish Jul 2015 #217
This is the kind of debater you are. Half a dozen to a dozen of us have provided you several stevenleser Jul 2015 #218
It's a simple question: ''Show where I am wrong.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #236
He is NOT defending Cosby, Steven tkmorris Jul 2015 #90
Oh yes, he is, and he is asserting a standard he never applies elsewhere. It's obvious. stevenleser Jul 2015 #91
he applied a whole other standard of judgment toward Cosby..... bettyellen Jul 2015 #169
Thank you, marym625. Looking back, I admire the overall work as a most splendid smear. Octafish Jul 2015 #26
Well said sir. You, and those that speak the truth will always be a target. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #67
yep nt G_j Jul 2015 #209
Mocking is a tactic used rhett o rick Jul 2015 #68
this post cannot be heaven05 Jul 2015 #113
Hail Bartcop Hail Octafish If the world was fair Joni Ernst would be folding breadbags this summer. IADEMO2004 Jul 2015 #6
The Tea Party's Endgame Octafish Jul 2015 #58
Don't sweat it Octa whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #10
Jury results.......... nc4bo Jul 2015 #20
hahaha` grasswire Jul 2015 #24
This session has been called to resolve a troubling matter. Marty McGraw Jul 2015 #36
well done jury!!! navarth Jul 2015 #42
Thanks to the alerter for the explanation and the indication of a big problem rhett o rick Jul 2015 #54
At this point Nevernose Jul 2015 #153
A 3-4. I see. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #61
Democracy needs treat all the same under the law. What group gets ahead? Octafish Jul 2015 #65
Kick in solidarity nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #11
The CIA Role in the Savings & Loan Crisis Octafish Jul 2015 #69
The whole S&L crisis and Neil Bush's role in it has been allowed to drop into the memory hole! LongTomH Jul 2015 #116
JEB's own role in the S&L thing was overshadowed, if possible, by SILVERADO Neil. Octafish Jul 2015 #139
Kick. madfloridian Jul 2015 #12
The CIA: Banking on Intelligence Octafish Jul 2015 #71
And recommend nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #13
Pete Brewton: The Mafia, CIA & George Bush Octafish Jul 2015 #86
K & huge fucking R CrawlingChaos Jul 2015 #15
NSA docs contradict Bush Jr 9/11 claims Octafish Jul 2015 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #131
Excellent. Thank you Octafish CrawlingChaos Jul 2015 #140
I think the point was that serial rapists are also disdainful BainsBane Jul 2015 #17
Yep. And the analogy is a good one. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #23
Yeah, pretty simple. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #43
And he didn't directly address the issue that this OP is really about. The OP is manipulation stevenleser Jul 2015 #56
Yup... SidDithers Jul 2015 #66
I've asked you over the years to show where I'm wrong about the BFEE. Octafish Jul 2015 #77
The criticism is about your response to Bill Cosby, not Bush BainsBane Jul 2015 #106
No, not really, BainsBane. Octafish Jul 2015 #119
What was the topic of the thread you were in where it was raised? BainsBane Jul 2015 #121
''Whoopi is still saying Cosby innocent until proven guilty'' Octafish Jul 2015 #124
You are correct that he LEGALLLY has not been found guilty BainsBane Jul 2015 #132
Then why make a big deal of what I didn't say? Octafish Jul 2015 #137
You chose to write an OP BainsBane Jul 2015 #151
You claim Foley is guilty- but that statute of limitations ran out too. Same shit, different story bettyellen Jul 2015 #170
And with his response to you, down you go down the rabbit hole. He's even telling you what you stevenleser Jul 2015 #120
Please show where I wrote any of that. Octafish Jul 2015 #123
I am genuinely puzzled by the double standard. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #73
This is what I have come to expect from discussions with that person stevenleser Jul 2015 #75
OMG, and he did it to Sid just above. Exactly the kind of crap I said he does. stevenleser Jul 2015 #81
So now I can't reply on my own thread? Octafish Jul 2015 #82
Yes, of course that's what my comment means. Strawman much? Actually calling that a strawman is stevenleser Jul 2015 #83
Right. Like 'taking some piece of what the person actually said and twisting it' isn't what you did. Octafish Jul 2015 #88
Nope, and several other folks agreed that is the upshot of what you wrote. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #89
'Make the comparison between his positions on Cosby and the BFEE and he accuses you of supporting... Octafish Jul 2015 #92
Here, you accused me of supporting the BFEE. "Stick with the BFEE Stevenleser" stevenleser Jul 2015 #94
Because that was the subject of the post? Octafish Jul 2015 #97
Explain to me why you think a serial rapist with 48 complaints BainsBane Jul 2015 #108
Hoist on his own whatchamacallit! bettyellen Jul 2015 #173
Over 24 hours later and the response to you is <crickets> stevenleser Jul 2015 #252
Yeah. Like where I've asked you up and down this thread to show where I'm wrong. Octafish Jul 2015 #274
I've shown you. Bainsbane has shown you, BettyEllen has shown you stevenleser Jul 2015 #275
Yup. zappaman Jul 2015 #277
Repeating the same strawman over and over doesn't make it correct, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #78
This OP and the links I provided where folks can read the other comments is all the evidence I need. stevenleser Jul 2015 #79
No. The Point Is JUSTICE. Octafish Jul 2015 #148
Justice indeed BainsBane Jul 2015 #152
I didn't know I had to write what you wanted me to write. Octafish Jul 2015 #154
I asked you questions, which you consistently refuse to answer BainsBane Jul 2015 #155
Not really, when you look at what I wrote and what you asked. Octafish Jul 2015 #157
Interested in discussion? BainsBane Jul 2015 #158
Dude... OnyxCollie Jul 2015 #18
How VP Poppy Bush of CIA got real big when Pruneface Raygun was ''Head Honcho'' Octafish Jul 2015 #95
You're one of the most right-on DU'ers of all. I treasure your posts, and the knowlege behind them. NBachers Jul 2015 #19
One Morn' in Sherwood Forest... Octafish Jul 2015 #115
The all American fascist family. n/t PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #21
Experts Agree! Octafish Jul 2015 #122
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #25
Is David Petraeus Dirty? Ted Westhusing Said So, and Then He Shot Himself. Octafish Jul 2015 #130
Yes She Does... Thank You For That !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #136
Ha I have connections to both Bushes and Smedly Butler (my Grandfather met and admired him). gordianot Jul 2015 #27
Smedley Butler is STILL considered a real hero to jomin41 Jul 2015 #87
My kids never heard of Butler from school before 2004, I made sure they did. gordianot Jul 2015 #103
Glad you are. Great family and a great family name, Bush. Octafish Jul 2015 #161
Odd my relative met his cousin Bush on his Grandfathers oil field in Kansas. gordianot Jul 2015 #183
k and r and bookmarking for later reading. niyad Jul 2015 #28
Remember how Rove really liked to fire and promote US Attorneys? Octafish Jul 2015 #168
oh, how well I remember (and wish I could forget) old turd blossom. niyad Jul 2015 #171
Too many don't know what they've done to the country and to Don Siegelman. Octafish Jul 2015 #177
there are days I don't think we can ever set things right. niyad Jul 2015 #180
The way the playing field is currently laid out, no. Octafish Jul 2015 #184
Octafish, you're one of the reasons I still send people to DU. canoeist52 Jul 2015 #30
The Bush dynasty and the Cuban criminals Octafish Jul 2015 #188
I would never mock you for your post. SoapBox Jul 2015 #31
Mark Lombardi knew Bush-Bath-bin-Laden connection in 1999. Octafish Jul 2015 #189
Keep it up. Too many want to whitewash the past and "move-on". jalan48 Jul 2015 #32
The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism Octafish Jul 2015 #190
The day you get drummed out of here, is the day this Cleita Jul 2015 #33
+100000000 nashville_brook Jul 2015 #39
I think Cosby is a creepy rapist Hydra Jul 2015 #34
Some never get the opportunity. Remember GOP US Attorney John David R. Atchison? Octafish Jul 2015 #141
I remember the case being posted here, and the Repubs being upset about it being their team again Hydra Jul 2015 #187
A lot of them settled in Huntsville, helping the Army build rockets, boosters, and what-all. Octafish Jul 2015 #194
Keep 'em coming!!! malaise Jul 2015 #35
NONE of this is old news, malaise. Especially to those touched by BFEE. Octafish Jul 2015 #197
There's a lot of child preadators and serial adulterers popping up in the GOP lately. Initech Jul 2015 #37
What to those who kill millions for oil and gold is abusing a child? Octafish Jul 2015 #198
I remember when the Sandusky scandal broke. Initech Jul 2015 #204
Strange how quickly the 'media' forget. Remember that nice juvie Judge in business with the prisons? Octafish Jul 2015 #206
K&R 2naSalit Jul 2015 #38
Poppy Bush Strikes Gold! Octafish Jul 2015 #199
You're quite welcome Octafish... 2naSalit Jul 2015 #300
strange days. thank you for the work you do! nashville_brook Jul 2015 #40
The Machine: Taking the Risk out of Democracy, Corporate Propaganda vs Freedom & Liberty Octafish Jul 2015 #200
You're one of the few out there always worth reading. rwsanders Jul 2015 #41
BFEE judge Silberman compared people who say ''Bush lied America into war'' to NAZIs. Octafish Jul 2015 #203
K&R&bookmark. JEB Jul 2015 #44
Banksters plus secret inside information is Wall Street on the Potomac. Octafish Jul 2015 #242
Same here RobertEarl Jul 2015 #45
That is all I want. Octafish Jul 2015 #256
Thanks, Octafish. Love your posts, and this one was no exception. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #46
BFEE think they're above the law, which is different than just breaking it. Octafish Jul 2015 #257
Well done! Duppers Jul 2015 #47
You made my day, 5-4. Octafish Jul 2015 #258
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #48
You gotta go BFEE to get along in Iraq. Look who they sent to run the war. Octafish Jul 2015 #259
I only wish we could get justice. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #270
BRAVO! BRAVO! ........and is Bush... Hotler Jul 2015 #49
That is the fake journalist Jeff Gannon aka The Cannon, on-call 24/7. Octafish Jul 2015 #269
There is a movie out about Johnny Gosh aka Jeff Gannon. Hotler Jul 2015 #288
KnR! Looky here... Holly_Hobby Jul 2015 #50
Bush gave coin to Goldstar mother and said: ''Don't go selling it on e-Bay.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #289
The entire family reeks of Psychopathy on steroids Holly_Hobby Jul 2015 #291
* ''No WMDs here.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #292
Family and friends... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #51
I see what you did there. .... nc4bo Jul 2015 #53
Hard to tell who's spying on whom in that shot. Octafish Jul 2015 #290
Just another tool looking for their 15 minutes- sent here to distract. notadmblnd Jul 2015 #52
A missing art. Octafish Jul 2015 #293
I have learned so much from your azmom Jul 2015 #55
Key to present day: Secret Service didn't like African Americans in 1963. Ask Agent Abraham Bolden. Octafish Jul 2015 #295
k&r.. jiminey christmas!. . . . .n/t annabanana Jul 2015 #59
Corruption Touched CIA’s Covert Operations Octafish Jul 2015 #296
I wonder Octa.. annabanana Jul 2015 #299
A shot of Chinaco to Bartcop for teaching me about the BFEE corkhead Jul 2015 #60
You know who else Bartcop seemed to enjoy going after, corkhead? Pirates! Octafish Jul 2015 #297
Thank you very much. Bookmarking. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #63
Thank you, SusanCalvin. I agree 100-percent. Octafish Jul 2015 #298
Kickin'....!!!! (eom) CanSocDem Jul 2015 #64
Richard Nixon's Blueprint for the 21st Century US Octafish Jul 2015 #302
Who is mocking? PM me. lonestarnot Jul 2015 #70
Post on, My Friend, post on! The BFEE and their sycophants are endemic of the fetid rot that... Raster Jul 2015 #72
Harold Pinter - Nobel Lecture on Truth, War and the Big Lie Octafish Jul 2015 #303
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jul 2015 #74
I've learned much from this OP but better yet... chknltl Jul 2015 #76
''No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money.'' -- Dr. Samuel Johnson. Octafish Jul 2015 #304
I noticed you never got an answer to your question about Cosby. Rex Jul 2015 #80
That's a sign, an inability to focus on the point and a talent to promote the freak show. Octafish Jul 2015 #305
Salute to my compatriot, Octafish. blm Jul 2015 #84
Dude, that's a bad case of bait-and-switch. How dishonest Android3.14 Jul 2015 #93
Exactly. Par from the course with him. And debates with him are like going down the rabbit hole stevenleser Jul 2015 #101
Yep BainsBane Jul 2015 #109
K&R for one of the best. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #96
Kick. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #99
K & R SalviaBlue Jul 2015 #105
I always bookmark your threads, O-Fish arikara Jul 2015 #107
Illegitimi non carborundum Demeter Jul 2015 #110
I will NEVER mock the truth heaven05 Jul 2015 #111
Hanging's too good for them. hifiguy Jul 2015 #112
K&R Paka Jul 2015 #114
Another K&R Keep posting about the BFEE LongTomH Jul 2015 #117
And let us not forget Marvin Bush... Gumboot Jul 2015 #118
Please. YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #125
I don't want any sympathy. Octafish Jul 2015 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #129
I don't blame you. Here is my reaction... stevenleser Jul 2015 #147
When you don't have an argument, use an emoticon. Octafish Jul 2015 #149
. stevenleser Jul 2015 #150
''Unlike Octafish, I do my homework.'' -- stevenleser of DU Octafish Jul 2015 #156
See post #218 above. That will become a standard response to you. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #219
Your words, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #254
I've got your back, and I always will. A small handful of dead-enders can make lots of noise. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #127
Kick!!! haikugal Jul 2015 #128
Anywho, a reminder: YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #133
Of course it's a conspiracy, using position and power to enrich one's cronies. Octafish Jul 2015 #138
I do miss his silver hammer. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2015 #134
Keep yer mighty pen a'flowin, Octafish. seafan Jul 2015 #135
So basically ablamj Jul 2015 #142
LOL! Anything to say about what I actually wrote -- on this thread or anywhere? Octafish Jul 2015 #143
i'm trying to figure ablamj Jul 2015 #144
When you figure it out let me know. I've been down the rabbit hole with him on this for two days now stevenleser Jul 2015 #146
I'm sure you're right ablamj Jul 2015 #160
Justice demands prosecution of traitors, war criminals, mass murderers, war profiteers and thieves. Octafish Jul 2015 #162
yes(see post 160) ablamj Jul 2015 #163
Yes I do. Octafish Jul 2015 #164
But do you personally believe ablamj Jul 2015 #172
apparently serial rapists are easy to ignore- women don't rate as important enough to get justice bettyellen Jul 2015 #176
While that may be your point, bettyellen, that's not what I think or wrote. Octafish Jul 2015 #196
Why don't you ablamj Jul 2015 #264
It also demands justice of rapists. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #245
Exactly- Octafish gets to judge who is criminal- the rest of us should STFU. Unless we agree! bettyellen Jul 2015 #175
Show where I've ever posted someone ''to STFU'' bettyellen. Octafish Jul 2015 #178
you posted about Foley - crimes not found- as guilty but just cannot say it about Cosby, LOL.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #179
All sorts of crimes regarding Foley were found. Octafish Jul 2015 #182
'Florida closes Foley investigation without charges" so by your Cosby standards, also innocent. bettyellen Jul 2015 #185
Not at all. Unlike you, Hastert & Boehner, I find the evidence compelling. Octafish Jul 2015 #195
As is the much testimony against Cosby, his lies and confession of employing drugs. bettyellen Jul 2015 #201
And note he wrote "Unlike you" accusing you of not finding the evidence against Foley compelling stevenleser Jul 2015 #212
Yeah, most of his replies have nothing to do with his dislike of calling Cos a rapist. bettyellen Jul 2015 #213
And he again asked upthread to provide examples of when he has accused other people of stuff stevenleser Jul 2015 #215
Lol, anything to deflect how he is basically a traitor to womankind. Society deserves protection.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #216
So now I'm a ''traitor to womankind''? Nice smear, bettyellen. Guess that's the best you can do... Octafish Jul 2015 #229
Another reply that has nothing to do with defending Cosby, LOL. bettyellen Jul 2015 #247
Sadly it is all too common BainsBane Jul 2015 #232
And we can't get through to him. He uses all these weird defense mechanisms instead of listening. stevenleser Jul 2015 #243
''The fact is that posting on DU is not 'fighting fascism''' -- stevenleser Octafish Jul 2015 #301
Keep it up carla Jul 2015 #145
Your Links and DU Posts are a "DU Treasure"..... KoKo Jul 2015 #159
I though Foley's case had "no criminal finding" so he's no more guilty than your BFF, Cosby.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #165
Florida dropped the case on grounds of ''insufficient evidence'' meaning GOP Congress covered up. Octafish Jul 2015 #181
LOL, and no one covered for Cosby. Sounds like two innocent lambs with conspiracy theories bettyellen Jul 2015 #186
Foley was in charge of protecting 'Missing and Exploited Children' Octafish Jul 2015 #191
No one accused you or "covering it up"? WTF? He wasn't found guilty- so he's not guilty according to your bettyellen Jul 2015 #193
Octafish, I love you. You obviously care enough to dig deep and hard towards AikidoSoul Jul 2015 #167
Too many links, just give us poor bastards some drugs ... seveneyes Jul 2015 #174
So…everything you posted about BFEE is wrong because… Bill Cosby? tularetom Jul 2015 #202
nope, you have that exactly backwards. His hypocrisy on Bill Cosby is somehow OK because he hates stevenleser Jul 2015 #220
Does Roger Ailes let you talk about anything related to the BFEE on tee vee? Octafish Jul 2015 #223
I'm not a Fox employee. So I can say anything I want. And we have proved you wrong dozens of times stevenleser Jul 2015 #225
Would you be if they offered you a job? Cleita Jul 2015 #230
You want me to publicly speculate on a nonexistent job offer? Yeah, that would be a good idea. stevenleser Jul 2015 #233
Why such umbrage? Cleita Jul 2015 #239
See Bainbanes #238 below, she says it better than I could stevenleser Jul 2015 #240
Sorry, the hypocrisy isn't apparent from where I'm standing tularetom Jul 2015 #226
Nope, there are half a dozen of us pointing out the same thing, so its not me. Nice try though. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #227
What I find interesting is exactly that tkmorris Jul 2015 #276
No. NuclearDem Jul 2015 #285
Fox News Contributors MoveIt Jul 2015 #207
There are no Fox News Contributors on DU. At least none that I am aware of. There are guests stevenleser Jul 2015 #214
Guest? Octafish Jul 2015 #221
Yes, guest, just like when I have been a guest on RT and elsewhere stevenleser Jul 2015 #224
By the way, am permalinking and sending this to my journal for reference to your ad hominems stevenleser Jul 2015 #228
What ad hominem from me? That's how Fox identified you. Octafish Jul 2015 #234
Nope, they wouldn't and never have, because I am not an employee. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #235
So those screen grabs are of someone with the same name as you who looks like you 3 times? Octafish Jul 2015 #265
Whose name should they have. What part of this don't you understand? Nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #267
You got at least three different job descriptions on FOX television. Octafish Jul 2015 #280
At least you've now moved the goalposts to where you are not accusing me of being an employee stevenleser Jul 2015 #281
Where did I accuse you of anything? Octafish Jul 2015 #286
If you mean that guy from that thing, yeah. Octafish Jul 2015 #222
Oh and in other words, you are accusing me of something here, but can't accuse Cosby. stevenleser Jul 2015 #251
Thanks for the welcome! MoveIt Jul 2015 #260
Welcome to DU. zappaman Jul 2015 #261
Who do you think MoveIt was, zappaman? Octafish Jul 2015 #263
Post #108 is awaiting your response zappaman Jul 2015 #266
Thanks for the reminder. Octafish Jul 2015 #272
You're very welcome, my old friend. zappaman Jul 2015 #273
I didn't know I had to answer to anyone. I'm that way with authority. Octafish Jul 2015 #278
No one said you had to, Brad. zappaman Jul 2015 #279
My name's not Brad, zappaman. It's Octafish. Octafish Jul 2015 #282
Have a great weekend, dude! zappaman Jul 2015 #283
You never did show where I am wrong, zappaman. Octafish Jul 2015 #287
Lol, right? Jumping right into a conflict with another DUer isn't remotely suspicious stevenleser Jul 2015 #268
You noticed that? Octafish Jul 2015 #262
Like Dennis Kucinich? BainsBane Jul 2015 #231
Yes, Dennis is a contributor, a paid employee of that network. I'm just a guest. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #237
That they know this originated from a discussion involving you BainsBane Jul 2015 #238
No. It's about Justice. You must have ''forgotten.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #244
And I and every other Democrat on this site agrees that Bush is a lying, asshole BainsBane Jul 2015 #248
Where did I ''dissemble''? I don't like being called a liar, BainsBane. Octafish Jul 2015 #255
They don't care about the women, like you said its a game to them about personalities on DU. stevenleser Jul 2015 #246
If you want to see someone treated as the enemy BainsBane Jul 2015 #249
I did a big piece on rape culture in 2013 with Marcotte and I should show you the stats on that show stevenleser Jul 2015 #250
You know you see it with coverage of the Runaways too.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #253
As should Rothschild family conspiracy theorists. NuclearDem Jul 2015 #284
Right you are. See for yourself. Octafish Jul 2015 #294
K R & B Dont call me Shirley Jul 2015 #271
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»BFEE Just Us»Reply #190