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In reply to the discussion: BFEE Just Us [View all]

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
203. BFEE judge Silberman compared people who say ''Bush lied America into war'' to NAZIs.
Fri Jul 10, 2015, 11:11 AM
Jul 2015


The history shows the guy got a nice career as reward for service to the rightwing, rather than a trial he so richly deserved for treason.



Federal Appeals Judge Compares People Who Say Bush Lied To Rise Of Nazis

A federal appeals judge wrote in a column published on Sunday that people who accuse former President George W. Bush of lying about the Iraq War are peddling myths like those that led to the rise of Hitler.

Laurence H. Silberman, a federal appellate judge appointed by President Ronald Reagan, wrote in the Wall Street Journal that the idea the Bush administration "lied us into Iraq" has gone from "antiwar slogan to journalistic fact."

"It is one thing to assert, then or now, that the Iraq war was ill-advised," he wrote. "It is quite another to make the horrendous charge that President Bush lied to or deceived the American people about the threat from Saddam."

After re-litigating the case for invading Iraq, Silberman wrote that the charge could have "potentially dire consequences."

"I am reminded of a similarly baseless accusation that helped the Nazis come to power in Germany: that the German army had not really lost World War I, that the soldiers instead had been 'stabbed in the back' by politicians," he wrote.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/laurence-silberman-bush-lied-nazis

via kpete: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6201723



Robert Parry in 2009:



Neocon Judge's History of Cover-ups

Laurence Silberman, a U.S. Appeals Court judge and a longtime neoconservative operative – part of what the Iran-Contra special prosecutor called “the strategic reserves” for convicted Reagan administration operatives in the 1980s – is back playing a similar role for the Bush-43 administration.

by Robert Parry
ConsortiumNews.com, September 23, 2009

On Sept. 11, the eighth anniversary of the terror attacks on New York and Washington, Silberman issued a 2-to-1 opinion dismissing a lawsuit against the private security firm, CACI International, brought by Iraqi victims of torture and other abuse at Abu Ghraib prison.

Silberman declared that CACI was immune from prosecution because its employees were responding to U.S. military commands. The immunity ruling blocked legal efforts by 212 Iraqis, who suffered directly at Abu Ghraib or were the widows of men who died, to exact some accountability from CACI employees who allegedly assisted in the torture of prisoners.

"During wartime, where a private service contractor is integrated into combatant activities over which the military retains command authority, a tort claim arising out of the contractor's engagement in such activities shall be preempted," Silberman wrote.

But Silberman is not a dispassionate judge when it comes to the crimes of Republicans committed to advance the neocon cause.

In the 1980s, Silberman played behind-the-scenes roles in helping Ronald Reagan gain the White House; he helped formulate hard-line intelligence policies; he encouraged right-wing media attacks on liberals; and he protected the flanks of Reagan’s operatives who were caught breaking the law.

Iran-Contra special prosecutor Lawrence Walsh, a Republican himself, counted Silberman as one of "a powerful band of Republican [judicial] appointees [who] waited like the strategic reserves of an embattled army," determined to prevent any judgments against Reagan’s operatives who broke the law in the arms-for-hostage scandal.

In his 1997 memoir, Firewall, Walsh depicted Silberman as a leader of that partisan band, even recalling how Silberman had berated Judge George MacKinnon, also a Republican, who led the panel which had picked Walsh to be the special prosecutor.

"At a D.C. circuit conference, he [Silberman] had gotten into a shouting match about independent counsel with Judge George MacKinnon," Walsh wrote. "Silberman not only had hostile views but seemed to hold them in anger."

In 1990, after Walsh had secured a difficult conviction of former White House aide Oliver North for offenses stemming from the Iran-Contra scandal, Silberman teamed up with another right-wing judge, David Sentelle, to overturn North’s conviction in a sudden outburst of sympathy for defendant rights.

Trashing Anita Hill

Less publicly, in 1991, Silberman also went to bat for the U.S. Supreme Court nomination of Clarence Thomas, working with right-wing operatives to destroy the reputation of Anita Hill, a former Thomas employee who testified about his crude sexual harassment.

Author David Brock, then a well-paid right-wing hatchet man who published what he later admitted were scurrilous attacks on Hill, described the support and encouragement he received from Silberman and Silberman’s wife, Ricky. Even after Thomas had won Senate confirmation, Silberman still was pushing attack lines against Hill, Brock wrote in his book, Blinded by the Right.

While George H.W. Bush’s White House slipped Brock a psychiatric opinion that Hill suffered from “erotomania,” Silberman met with Brock to suggest even more colorful criticism of Hill.

“Silberman speculated that Hill was a lesbian ‘acting out’,” Brock wrote. “Besides, Silberman confided, Thomas would never have asked Hill for dates: She had bad breath.”

After Brock published a book-length assault on Hill, called The Real Anita Hill, the Silbermans and other prominent conservatives joined a celebration at the Embassy Row Ritz-Carlton, Brock wrote, noting that also in attendance was Judge Sentelle.

But Silberman’s anything-goes approach to promoting – and protecting – right-wing control of the government dated back even further, to his key role as a foreign-policy and intelligence adviser to Ronald Reagan’s 1980 campaign.

During Campaign 1980, Silberman was a senior figure in what was then a fast-rising neoconservative faction that saw Reagan’s victory – and the defeat of President Jimmy Carter – as vital to expand U.S. military power, to confront the Soviet Union aggressively and to relieve pressure on Israel for a peace deal with the Palestinians.

More than a decade later, congressional investigators discovered that Silberman was assigned to secretive Reagan campaign operations collecting intelligence on what President Carter was doing to secure the release of 52 American hostages then held in Iran.

On April 20, 1980, the Reagan campaign created a group of foreign policy experts known as the Iran Working Group. The operation was run by Richard Allen, Fred Ikle and Silberman, the congressional investigators discovered.

After Reagan’s nomination in July, his campaign merged with that of his vice presidential running mate, George H.W. Bush, who had enlisted many ex-CIA officers who were loyal to Bush as a former CIA director.

October Surprise Obsession

The general election campaign assembled a strategy team, known as the “October Surprise Group,” which was ordered to prepare for “any last-minute foreign policy or defense-related event, including the release of the hostages, that might favorably impact President Carter in the November election,” according to a House Task Force that in 1992 investigated allegations of Republican interference in Carter’s hostage negotiations.

“Originally referred to as the ‘Gang of Ten,’” the Task Force report said the “October Surprise Group” consisted of Allen, Ikle, Charles M. Kupperman, Thomas H. Moorer, Eugene V. Rostow, William R. Van Cleave, John R. Lehman Jr., Robert G. Neumann, Seymour Weiss – and Silberman.

While that reference made it into the Task Force’s final report in January 1993, another part was deleted, which said: “According to members of the ‘October Surprise’ group, the following individuals also participated in meetings although they were not considered ‘members’ of the group: Michael Ledeen, Richard Stillwell, William Middendorf, Richard Perle, General Louis Walt and Admiral James Holloway.”

Deleted from the final report also was a section of the draft describing how the ex-CIA personnel who had worked for Bush’s campaign became the nucleus of the Republican intelligence operation that monitored Carter’s Iran-hostage negotiations for the Reagan-Bush team.

“The Reagan-Bush campaign maintained a 24-hour Operations Center, which monitored press wires and reports, gave daily press briefings and maintained telephone and telefax contact with the candidate’s plane,” the draft report read. “Many of the staff members were former CIA employees who had previously worked on the Bush campaign or were otherwise loyal to George Bush.” (I discovered the unpublished portions of Task Force’s report when I gain access to its files in late 1994.)

Another deletion involved a Sept. 16, 1980, meeting ordered by Reagan’s campaign director William Casey, who had become obsessed over the possibility of Carter pulling off an October Surprise release of the hostages.

On that date, Casey met with senior campaign officials Edwin Meese, Bill Timmons and Richard Allen about the “Persian Gulf Project,” according to an unpublished section of the House Task Force report and Allen’s notes. Two other participants at the meeting, according to Allen’s notes, were Michael Ledeen and Noel Koch.

That same day, Iran’s acting foreign minister Sadegh Ghotbzadeh was quoted as citing Republican interference on the hostages. “Reagan, supported by [former Secretary of State Henry] Kissinger and others, has no intention of resolving the problem,” Ghotbzadeh said. “They will do everything in their power to block it.”

Exactly what the Reagan-Bush “October Surprise” team did remains something of a historical mystery.

About two dozen witnesses – including former Iranian officials and international intelligence figures – have claimed the Republican contacts undercut Carter’s hostage negotiations, though others insist that the initiatives were simply ways to gather information about Carter’s desperate bid to free the hostages before the election. [For the most thorough account of the “October Surprise” case, see Robert Parry’s Secrecy & Privilege.]

The L’Enfant Plaza Mystery

One of the many unanswered questions about the October Surprise mystery revolved around a meeting involving Laurence Silberman and an Iranian emissary at the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel in Washington in September or early October 1980.

Years later, an Iranian arms dealer named Houshang Lavi claimed to be the emissary who met with Silberman, Allen and Robert McFarlane, who was then an aide to Sen. John Tower, R-Texas. Lavi said the meeting on Oct. 2 dealt with the possibility of trading arms to Iran for release of the hostages – and was arranged by Silberman.

Silberman, Allen and McFarlane acknowledged that a meeting happened, but they insisted they had no recollection of the emissary’s name nor who he was.

In 1990, I interviewed a testy Richard Allen about the meeting for a PBS Frontline documentary. Allen said he reluctantly went to the meeting, which he said was proposed by McFarlane. Allen said he took along Silberman as a witness.

“So Larry Silberman and I got on the subway and we went down to the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel where I met McFarlane and there were many people milling about. We sat at a table in the lobby. It was around the lunch hour. I was introduced to this very obscure character whose name I cannot recall. …

“The individual who was either an Egyptian or an Iranian or could have been an Iranian living in Egypt – and his idea was that he had the capacity to intervene, to deliver the hostages to the Reagan forces. Now, I took that at first to mean that he was able to deliver the hostages to Ronald Reagan, candidate for the presidency of the United States, which was absolutely lunatic. And I said so. I believe I said, or Larry did, ‘we have one President at a time. That’s the way it is.’

“So this fellow continued with his conversation. I was incredulous that McFarlane would have ever brought a guy like this or placed any credibility in a guy like this. Just absolutely incredulous, and so was Larry Silberman. This meeting lasted maybe 20 minutes, 25 minutes. So that’s it. There’s no need to continue this meeting. …

“Larry and I walked out. And I remember Larry saying, ‘Boy, you better write a memorandum about this. This is really spaceship stuff.’ And it, of course, set my opinion very firmly about Bud McFarlane for having brought this person to me in the first place.”

‘Swarthy’ Emissary

Allen described the emissary as “stocky and swarthy, dark-complected,” but otherwise “non-descript.” Allen added that the man looked like a “person from somewhere on the Mediterranean littoral. How about that?”

Allen said this Egyptian or Iranian “must have given a name at the time, must have.” But Allen couldn’t recall it. He also said he made no effort to check out the man’s position or background before agreeing to the meeting.

“Did you ask McFarlane, who is this guy?” I asked Allen.

“I don’t recall having asked him, no,” Allen responded.

“I guess I don’t understand why you wouldn’t say, ‘Is this guy an Iranian, is he someone you’ve known for a while?’” I pressed.

“Well, gee, I’m sorry that you don’t understand,” Allen lashed back. “I really feel badly for you. It’s really too bad you don’t understand. But that’s your problem, not mine.”

“But wouldn’t you normally ask that kind of background question?”

“Not necessarily,” Allen said. “McFarlane wanted me to meet a guy and this guy was going to talk about the hostages. I met plenty of people during that period of time who wanted to talk to me about the hostages. … This was no different from anybody else I would meet on this subject.”

“It obviously turned out to be different from most people you’ve met on the subject,” I interjected.

“”Oh, it turned out to be because this guy is the centerpiece of some sort of great conspiracy web that has been spun,” Allen snapped.

“Well, were there many people who offered to deliver the hostages to Ronald Reagan?” I asked.

“No, this one was particularly different, but I didn’t know that before I went to the meeting, you understand.”

“Did you ask McFarlane what on earth this guy was going to propose?”

“I don’t think I did in advance, no.”

What also was unusual about this meeting was what Allen and Silberman did not do afterwards. Though Allen said that he and Silberman recognized the sensitivity of the approach, neither of Reagan’s foreign policy advisers contacted the Carter administration or reported the offer to law enforcement.

Defying Logic

It also defied logic that seasoned operatives like Allen and Silberman would have agreed to a meeting with an emissary from a hostile power without having done some due-diligence about who the person was and what his bona fides were.

Iranian arms dealer Lavi later claimed to be the mysterious emissary. And government documents revealed that Lavi made a similar approach to the independent presidential campaign of John Anderson, although Anderson’s campaign – unlike Allen and Silberman – promptly informed the CIA and State Department.

For his part, Silberman denied any substantive discussion with the mysterious emissary but refused to discuss the meeting in any detail. He did insist that he was out of town on Oct. 2, the date cited by Lavi, but Silberman wouldn’t provide a list of dates when he was in Washington during the fall of 1980.

Though purportedly having arranged the meeting, McFarlare also insisted that he couldn’t recall the identity of the emissary.

Later, when a Senate panel conducted a brief inquiry into whether the Republicans interfered with Carter’s hostage negotiations, a truculent Allen testified – and brought along a memo that he claimed represented his contemporaneous recollections of the L’Enfant Plaza meeting.

However, the memo, dated Sept. 10, 1980, flatly contradicted the previous accounts from Allen, Silberman and McFarlane. It described a meeting arranged by Mike Butler, another Tower aide, with McFarlane only joining in later as the pair told Allen about a meeting they had had with a Mr. A.A. Mohammed, a Malaysian who operated out of Singapore.

“This afternoon, by mutual agreement, I met with Messrs. Mohammed, Butler and McFarlane. I also took Larry Silberman along to the meeting,” Allen wrote in the memo.

According to the memo, Mohammed presented a scheme for returning the Shah of Iran’s son to the country as “a figurehead monarch” which would be accompanied by a release of the U.S. hostages. Though skeptical of the plan, “both Larry and I indicated that we would be pleased to hear whatever additional news Mr. Mohammed might be able to turn up, and I suggested that that information be communicated via a secure channel,” the memo read.

Nearly every important detail was different both in how the meeting was arranged and its contents. Gone was the proposal to release the hostages to candidate Reagan, gone was the abrupt cutoff, gone was the Iranian or Egyptian – some guy from the “Mediterranean littoral” – replaced by a Malaysian businessman whose comments were welcomed along with future contacts “via a secure channel.” The memo didn’t even mention the L’Enfant Plaza Hotel, nor was McFarlane the organizer.

A reasonable conclusion might be that Allen’s memo was about an entirely different meeting, which would suggest that Republican contacts with Iranian emissaries were more numerous than previously admitted and that Silberman was more of a regular player.

Also, Silberman, McFarlane and Butler – when questioned by the House Task Force investigating the issue in 1992 – disputed Allen’s new version of the L’Enfant Plaza tale. They claimed no recollection of the A.A. Mohammed discussion.

Nevertheless, the House Task Force, in its determination to turn the page on the complex October Surprise issue, accepted Allen’s memo as the final answer to the L’Enfant Plaza question and pressed ahead with a broader rejection of any wrongdoing by Republicans – even though that required concealing a host of incriminating documents. [See Secrecy & Privilege.]

Tantalizing Clue

The House Task Force also turned a blind eye to another tantalizing clue related to the L’Enfant Plaza mystery. Lavi’s lawyer, former CIA counsel Mitchell Rogovin, provided me a page of his notes from that time period.

Rogovin, who was an adviser to the John Anderson campaign, wrote on his calendar entry for Sept. 29, 1980, a summary of Lavi’s plan to trade weapons for the hostages. After that, Rogovin recorded a telephone contact with senior CIA official John McMahon to discuss Lavi’s plan and to schedule a face-to-face meeting with a CIA representative on Oct. 2.

The next entry, however, was stunning. It read, “Larry Silberman – still very nervous/will recommend … against us this P.M. I said $250,000 – he said why even bother.”

When I called Rogovin about this notation, he said it related to a loan that the Anderson campaign was seeking from Crocker National Bank where Silberman served as legal counsel. The note meant that Silberman was planning to advise the bank officers against the loan, Rogovin said.

I asked Rogovin if he might have mentioned Lavi’s hostage plan to Silberman, who was in the curious position of being a senior Reagan adviser and weighing in on a loan to an independent campaign that was viewed as siphoning off votes from Carter. (Crocker did extend a line of credit to Anderson.)

“There was no discussion of the Lavi proposal,” Rogovin insisted. But Rogovin acknowledged that Silberman was a friend from the Ford administration where both men had worked on intelligence issues, Rogovin from the CIA and Silberman at the Justice Department. Later, Rogovin and Silberman became next-door neighbors and bought a boat together.

In a normal investigation, such coincidences would strain credulity, especially given Lavi’s claim that he took part in a meeting with Republicans at the L’Enfant Plaza on Oct. 2, the same day that he talked with a CIA representative. Lavi also claimed that Silberman had arranged the meeting, which would make sense given Rogovin’s personal ties to Silberman.

However, as on a host of other compelling leads, the House Task Force chose to look the other way.

Reagan’s Victory

On Nov. 4, 1980, with Carter unable to free the hostages and Americans humiliated by the year-long ordeal with Iran, Ronald Reagan won the presidency in a landslide.

For his loyal service in the campaign, the neoconservative Silberman was put in charge of the transition team’s intelligence section. The team prepared a report attacking the CIA’s analytical division for noting growing weaknesses in the Soviet Union, a position despised by the neocons because it undercut their case for a costly expansion of the Pentagon’s budget.

Silberman’s transition team accused the CIA’s Directorate of Intelligence of “an abject failure” to foresee a supposedly massive Soviet buildup of strategic weapons and “the wholesale failure” to comprehend the sophistication of Soviet propaganda.

“These failures are of such enormity,” the transition report said, “that they cannot help but suggest to any objective observer that the agency itself is compromised to an unprecedented extent and that its paralysis is attributable to causes more sinister than incompetence.”

In other words, Silberman’s transition team was implying that CIA analysts who didn’t toe the neoconservative line must be Soviet agents. Even anti-Soviet hardliners like the CIA’s Robert Gates recognized the impact that the incoming administration’s hostility had on the CIA analysts.

“That the Reaganites saw their arrival as a hostile takeover was apparent in the most extraordinary transition period of my career,” Gates wrote in his memoir, From the Shadows. “The reaction inside the Agency to this litany of failure and incompetence” from the transition team “was a mix of resentment and anger, dread and personal insecurity.”

Amid rumors that the transition team wanted to purge several hundred top analysts, career officials feared for their jobs, especially those considered responsible for assessing the Soviet Union as a declining power rapidly falling behind the West in technology and economics.

According to some intelligence sources, Silberman expected to get the job of CIA director and flew into a rage when Reagan gave the job to his campaign director William Casey, who also was tied to the October Surprise operations. (The U.S. hostages in Iran were released immediately upon Ronald Reagan taking the oath of office on Jan. 20, 1981.)

Silberman’s consolation prize was to be named a judge on the powerful U.S. Court of Appeals in Washington, where he helped frustrate the Iran-Contra investigation by overturning Oliver North’s conviction in 1990 and to this day is a defender of the neocons’ foreign policy -- as witnessed by his Sept. 11, 2009, ruling blocking civil lawsuits against U.S. government contractors implicated in torturing Iraqis.

Robert Parry broke many of the Iran-Contra stories in the 1980s for the Associated Press and Newsweek. His latest book, Neck Deep: The Disastrous Presidency of George W. Bush, was written with two of his sons, Sam and Nat, and can be ordered at neckdeepbook.com. His two previous books, Secrecy & Privilege: The Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq and Lost History: Contras, Cocaine, the Press & 'Project Truth' are also available there. Or go to Amazon.com.

To comment at Consortiumblog, click here. (To make a blog comment about this or other stories, you can use your normal e-mail address and password. Ignore the prompt for a Google account.) To comment to us by e-mail, click here. To donate so we can continue reporting and publishing stories like the one you just read, click here.


SOURCE w.links: https://consortiumnews.com/2009/092209.html



PS: You honor me, rwsanders. Thank you!

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

BFEE Just Us [View all] Octafish Jul 2015 OP
Sick bastards! Kicking AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #1
It's been a long, long run of helping the Have-Mores become the Have-Most. Octafish Jul 2015 #5
I may not always reply madokie Jul 2015 #7
+1 think Jul 2015 #9
Abso-fvcking-lutely. blm Jul 2015 #85
yes G_j Jul 2015 #241
I tried to warn those around me of these sleezy low grade criminals, I was ridiculed AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #14
your MS Word files must be sorted by greatness snooper2 Jul 2015 #2
Key Word Octafish Jul 2015 #8
k&r questionseverything Jul 2015 #104
You keep on telling it like it is. I'll have your back. shraby Jul 2015 #3
Online Covert Actions Octafish Jul 2015 #16
I'm sorry marym625 Jul 2015 #4
He is one of the folks defending Cosby on the basis of "never convicted" stevenleser Jul 2015 #22
I defended the right to be innocent until proven guilty. Octafish Jul 2015 #29
And in fact one of the things I have noticed on MSNBC is that they are doing exactly that. If they jwirr Jul 2015 #98
Um, if Cosby hsn't been proven guilty, then why... Nitram Jul 2015 #102
Uh, because I think even the worst of the BFEE also deserve a fair trial. Octafish Jul 2015 #208
I don't think anyone has said Cosby doesn't deserve a trial. Nitram Jul 2015 #211
You are trying to smear him for defending justice. He clearly is not defending Mr. Cosby. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #57
Smear him? His hypocrisy on Cosby versus pronouncing the BFEE guilty is staggering stevenleser Jul 2015 #62
I thought Foley was never convicted? Isn't he as innocent as a lamb too? bettyellen Jul 2015 #166
I'll bet if we did searches we would find hundreds of examples when he accused folks of things stevenleser Jul 2015 #192
Then GOOGLE and show, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #205
How many more do you need? We have already mentioned Bush, Cheney and the BFEE. Isn't that enough? stevenleser Jul 2015 #210
So, you've got nothing. Octafish Jul 2015 #217
This is the kind of debater you are. Half a dozen to a dozen of us have provided you several stevenleser Jul 2015 #218
It's a simple question: ''Show where I am wrong.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #236
He is NOT defending Cosby, Steven tkmorris Jul 2015 #90
Oh yes, he is, and he is asserting a standard he never applies elsewhere. It's obvious. stevenleser Jul 2015 #91
he applied a whole other standard of judgment toward Cosby..... bettyellen Jul 2015 #169
Thank you, marym625. Looking back, I admire the overall work as a most splendid smear. Octafish Jul 2015 #26
Well said sir. You, and those that speak the truth will always be a target. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #67
yep nt G_j Jul 2015 #209
Mocking is a tactic used rhett o rick Jul 2015 #68
this post cannot be heaven05 Jul 2015 #113
Hail Bartcop Hail Octafish If the world was fair Joni Ernst would be folding breadbags this summer. IADEMO2004 Jul 2015 #6
The Tea Party's Endgame Octafish Jul 2015 #58
Don't sweat it Octa whatchamacallit Jul 2015 #10
Jury results.......... nc4bo Jul 2015 #20
hahaha` grasswire Jul 2015 #24
This session has been called to resolve a troubling matter. Marty McGraw Jul 2015 #36
well done jury!!! navarth Jul 2015 #42
Thanks to the alerter for the explanation and the indication of a big problem rhett o rick Jul 2015 #54
At this point Nevernose Jul 2015 #153
A 3-4. I see. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #61
Democracy needs treat all the same under the law. What group gets ahead? Octafish Jul 2015 #65
Kick in solidarity nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #11
The CIA Role in the Savings & Loan Crisis Octafish Jul 2015 #69
The whole S&L crisis and Neil Bush's role in it has been allowed to drop into the memory hole! LongTomH Jul 2015 #116
JEB's own role in the S&L thing was overshadowed, if possible, by SILVERADO Neil. Octafish Jul 2015 #139
Kick. madfloridian Jul 2015 #12
The CIA: Banking on Intelligence Octafish Jul 2015 #71
And recommend nadinbrzezinski Jul 2015 #13
Pete Brewton: The Mafia, CIA & George Bush Octafish Jul 2015 #86
K & huge fucking R CrawlingChaos Jul 2015 #15
NSA docs contradict Bush Jr 9/11 claims Octafish Jul 2015 #100
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #131
Excellent. Thank you Octafish CrawlingChaos Jul 2015 #140
I think the point was that serial rapists are also disdainful BainsBane Jul 2015 #17
Yep. And the analogy is a good one. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #23
Yeah, pretty simple. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #43
And he didn't directly address the issue that this OP is really about. The OP is manipulation stevenleser Jul 2015 #56
Yup... SidDithers Jul 2015 #66
I've asked you over the years to show where I'm wrong about the BFEE. Octafish Jul 2015 #77
The criticism is about your response to Bill Cosby, not Bush BainsBane Jul 2015 #106
No, not really, BainsBane. Octafish Jul 2015 #119
What was the topic of the thread you were in where it was raised? BainsBane Jul 2015 #121
''Whoopi is still saying Cosby innocent until proven guilty'' Octafish Jul 2015 #124
You are correct that he LEGALLLY has not been found guilty BainsBane Jul 2015 #132
Then why make a big deal of what I didn't say? Octafish Jul 2015 #137
You chose to write an OP BainsBane Jul 2015 #151
You claim Foley is guilty- but that statute of limitations ran out too. Same shit, different story bettyellen Jul 2015 #170
And with his response to you, down you go down the rabbit hole. He's even telling you what you stevenleser Jul 2015 #120
Please show where I wrote any of that. Octafish Jul 2015 #123
I am genuinely puzzled by the double standard. Starry Messenger Jul 2015 #73
This is what I have come to expect from discussions with that person stevenleser Jul 2015 #75
OMG, and he did it to Sid just above. Exactly the kind of crap I said he does. stevenleser Jul 2015 #81
So now I can't reply on my own thread? Octafish Jul 2015 #82
Yes, of course that's what my comment means. Strawman much? Actually calling that a strawman is stevenleser Jul 2015 #83
Right. Like 'taking some piece of what the person actually said and twisting it' isn't what you did. Octafish Jul 2015 #88
Nope, and several other folks agreed that is the upshot of what you wrote. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #89
'Make the comparison between his positions on Cosby and the BFEE and he accuses you of supporting... Octafish Jul 2015 #92
Here, you accused me of supporting the BFEE. "Stick with the BFEE Stevenleser" stevenleser Jul 2015 #94
Because that was the subject of the post? Octafish Jul 2015 #97
Explain to me why you think a serial rapist with 48 complaints BainsBane Jul 2015 #108
Hoist on his own whatchamacallit! bettyellen Jul 2015 #173
Over 24 hours later and the response to you is <crickets> stevenleser Jul 2015 #252
Yeah. Like where I've asked you up and down this thread to show where I'm wrong. Octafish Jul 2015 #274
I've shown you. Bainsbane has shown you, BettyEllen has shown you stevenleser Jul 2015 #275
Yup. zappaman Jul 2015 #277
Repeating the same strawman over and over doesn't make it correct, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #78
This OP and the links I provided where folks can read the other comments is all the evidence I need. stevenleser Jul 2015 #79
No. The Point Is JUSTICE. Octafish Jul 2015 #148
Justice indeed BainsBane Jul 2015 #152
I didn't know I had to write what you wanted me to write. Octafish Jul 2015 #154
I asked you questions, which you consistently refuse to answer BainsBane Jul 2015 #155
Not really, when you look at what I wrote and what you asked. Octafish Jul 2015 #157
Interested in discussion? BainsBane Jul 2015 #158
Dude... OnyxCollie Jul 2015 #18
How VP Poppy Bush of CIA got real big when Pruneface Raygun was ''Head Honcho'' Octafish Jul 2015 #95
You're one of the most right-on DU'ers of all. I treasure your posts, and the knowlege behind them. NBachers Jul 2015 #19
One Morn' in Sherwood Forest... Octafish Jul 2015 #115
The all American fascist family. n/t PowerToThePeople Jul 2015 #21
Experts Agree! Octafish Jul 2015 #122
K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #25
Is David Petraeus Dirty? Ted Westhusing Said So, and Then He Shot Himself. Octafish Jul 2015 #130
Yes She Does... Thank You For That !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #136
Ha I have connections to both Bushes and Smedly Butler (my Grandfather met and admired him). gordianot Jul 2015 #27
Smedley Butler is STILL considered a real hero to jomin41 Jul 2015 #87
My kids never heard of Butler from school before 2004, I made sure they did. gordianot Jul 2015 #103
Glad you are. Great family and a great family name, Bush. Octafish Jul 2015 #161
Odd my relative met his cousin Bush on his Grandfathers oil field in Kansas. gordianot Jul 2015 #183
k and r and bookmarking for later reading. niyad Jul 2015 #28
Remember how Rove really liked to fire and promote US Attorneys? Octafish Jul 2015 #168
oh, how well I remember (and wish I could forget) old turd blossom. niyad Jul 2015 #171
Too many don't know what they've done to the country and to Don Siegelman. Octafish Jul 2015 #177
there are days I don't think we can ever set things right. niyad Jul 2015 #180
The way the playing field is currently laid out, no. Octafish Jul 2015 #184
Octafish, you're one of the reasons I still send people to DU. canoeist52 Jul 2015 #30
The Bush dynasty and the Cuban criminals Octafish Jul 2015 #188
I would never mock you for your post. SoapBox Jul 2015 #31
Mark Lombardi knew Bush-Bath-bin-Laden connection in 1999. Octafish Jul 2015 #189
Keep it up. Too many want to whitewash the past and "move-on". jalan48 Jul 2015 #32
The Rise of a ‘Democratic’ Fascism Octafish Jul 2015 #190
The day you get drummed out of here, is the day this Cleita Jul 2015 #33
+100000000 nashville_brook Jul 2015 #39
I think Cosby is a creepy rapist Hydra Jul 2015 #34
Some never get the opportunity. Remember GOP US Attorney John David R. Atchison? Octafish Jul 2015 #141
I remember the case being posted here, and the Repubs being upset about it being their team again Hydra Jul 2015 #187
A lot of them settled in Huntsville, helping the Army build rockets, boosters, and what-all. Octafish Jul 2015 #194
Keep 'em coming!!! malaise Jul 2015 #35
NONE of this is old news, malaise. Especially to those touched by BFEE. Octafish Jul 2015 #197
There's a lot of child preadators and serial adulterers popping up in the GOP lately. Initech Jul 2015 #37
What to those who kill millions for oil and gold is abusing a child? Octafish Jul 2015 #198
I remember when the Sandusky scandal broke. Initech Jul 2015 #204
Strange how quickly the 'media' forget. Remember that nice juvie Judge in business with the prisons? Octafish Jul 2015 #206
K&R 2naSalit Jul 2015 #38
Poppy Bush Strikes Gold! Octafish Jul 2015 #199
You're quite welcome Octafish... 2naSalit Jul 2015 #300
strange days. thank you for the work you do! nashville_brook Jul 2015 #40
The Machine: Taking the Risk out of Democracy, Corporate Propaganda vs Freedom & Liberty Octafish Jul 2015 #200
You're one of the few out there always worth reading. rwsanders Jul 2015 #41
BFEE judge Silberman compared people who say ''Bush lied America into war'' to NAZIs. Octafish Jul 2015 #203
K&R&bookmark. JEB Jul 2015 #44
Banksters plus secret inside information is Wall Street on the Potomac. Octafish Jul 2015 #242
Same here RobertEarl Jul 2015 #45
That is all I want. Octafish Jul 2015 #256
Thanks, Octafish. Love your posts, and this one was no exception. JDPriestly Jul 2015 #46
BFEE think they're above the law, which is different than just breaking it. Octafish Jul 2015 #257
Well done! Duppers Jul 2015 #47
You made my day, 5-4. Octafish Jul 2015 #258
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Jul 2015 #48
You gotta go BFEE to get along in Iraq. Look who they sent to run the war. Octafish Jul 2015 #259
I only wish we could get justice. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #270
BRAVO! BRAVO! ........and is Bush... Hotler Jul 2015 #49
That is the fake journalist Jeff Gannon aka The Cannon, on-call 24/7. Octafish Jul 2015 #269
There is a movie out about Johnny Gosh aka Jeff Gannon. Hotler Jul 2015 #288
KnR! Looky here... Holly_Hobby Jul 2015 #50
Bush gave coin to Goldstar mother and said: ''Don't go selling it on e-Bay.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #289
The entire family reeks of Psychopathy on steroids Holly_Hobby Jul 2015 #291
* ''No WMDs here.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #292
Family and friends... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2015 #51
I see what you did there. .... nc4bo Jul 2015 #53
Hard to tell who's spying on whom in that shot. Octafish Jul 2015 #290
Just another tool looking for their 15 minutes- sent here to distract. notadmblnd Jul 2015 #52
A missing art. Octafish Jul 2015 #293
I have learned so much from your azmom Jul 2015 #55
Key to present day: Secret Service didn't like African Americans in 1963. Ask Agent Abraham Bolden. Octafish Jul 2015 #295
k&r.. jiminey christmas!. . . . .n/t annabanana Jul 2015 #59
Corruption Touched CIA’s Covert Operations Octafish Jul 2015 #296
I wonder Octa.. annabanana Jul 2015 #299
A shot of Chinaco to Bartcop for teaching me about the BFEE corkhead Jul 2015 #60
You know who else Bartcop seemed to enjoy going after, corkhead? Pirates! Octafish Jul 2015 #297
Thank you very much. Bookmarking. SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #63
Thank you, SusanCalvin. I agree 100-percent. Octafish Jul 2015 #298
Kickin'....!!!! (eom) CanSocDem Jul 2015 #64
Richard Nixon's Blueprint for the 21st Century US Octafish Jul 2015 #302
Who is mocking? PM me. lonestarnot Jul 2015 #70
Post on, My Friend, post on! The BFEE and their sycophants are endemic of the fetid rot that... Raster Jul 2015 #72
Harold Pinter - Nobel Lecture on Truth, War and the Big Lie Octafish Jul 2015 #303
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Jul 2015 #74
I've learned much from this OP but better yet... chknltl Jul 2015 #76
''No man but a blockhead ever wrote except for money.'' -- Dr. Samuel Johnson. Octafish Jul 2015 #304
I noticed you never got an answer to your question about Cosby. Rex Jul 2015 #80
That's a sign, an inability to focus on the point and a talent to promote the freak show. Octafish Jul 2015 #305
Salute to my compatriot, Octafish. blm Jul 2015 #84
Dude, that's a bad case of bait-and-switch. How dishonest Android3.14 Jul 2015 #93
Exactly. Par from the course with him. And debates with him are like going down the rabbit hole stevenleser Jul 2015 #101
Yep BainsBane Jul 2015 #109
K&R for one of the best. raouldukelives Jul 2015 #96
Kick. GoneFishin Jul 2015 #99
K & R SalviaBlue Jul 2015 #105
I always bookmark your threads, O-Fish arikara Jul 2015 #107
Illegitimi non carborundum Demeter Jul 2015 #110
I will NEVER mock the truth heaven05 Jul 2015 #111
Hanging's too good for them. hifiguy Jul 2015 #112
K&R Paka Jul 2015 #114
Another K&R Keep posting about the BFEE LongTomH Jul 2015 #117
And let us not forget Marvin Bush... Gumboot Jul 2015 #118
Please. YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #125
I don't want any sympathy. Octafish Jul 2015 #126
This message was self-deleted by its author YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #129
I don't blame you. Here is my reaction... stevenleser Jul 2015 #147
When you don't have an argument, use an emoticon. Octafish Jul 2015 #149
. stevenleser Jul 2015 #150
''Unlike Octafish, I do my homework.'' -- stevenleser of DU Octafish Jul 2015 #156
See post #218 above. That will become a standard response to you. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #219
Your words, stevenleser. Octafish Jul 2015 #254
I've got your back, and I always will. A small handful of dead-enders can make lots of noise. DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #127
Kick!!! haikugal Jul 2015 #128
Anywho, a reminder: YoungDemCA Jul 2015 #133
Of course it's a conspiracy, using position and power to enrich one's cronies. Octafish Jul 2015 #138
I do miss his silver hammer. Agnosticsherbet Jul 2015 #134
Keep yer mighty pen a'flowin, Octafish. seafan Jul 2015 #135
So basically ablamj Jul 2015 #142
LOL! Anything to say about what I actually wrote -- on this thread or anywhere? Octafish Jul 2015 #143
i'm trying to figure ablamj Jul 2015 #144
When you figure it out let me know. I've been down the rabbit hole with him on this for two days now stevenleser Jul 2015 #146
I'm sure you're right ablamj Jul 2015 #160
Justice demands prosecution of traitors, war criminals, mass murderers, war profiteers and thieves. Octafish Jul 2015 #162
yes(see post 160) ablamj Jul 2015 #163
Yes I do. Octafish Jul 2015 #164
But do you personally believe ablamj Jul 2015 #172
apparently serial rapists are easy to ignore- women don't rate as important enough to get justice bettyellen Jul 2015 #176
While that may be your point, bettyellen, that's not what I think or wrote. Octafish Jul 2015 #196
Why don't you ablamj Jul 2015 #264
It also demands justice of rapists. LanternWaste Jul 2015 #245
Exactly- Octafish gets to judge who is criminal- the rest of us should STFU. Unless we agree! bettyellen Jul 2015 #175
Show where I've ever posted someone ''to STFU'' bettyellen. Octafish Jul 2015 #178
you posted about Foley - crimes not found- as guilty but just cannot say it about Cosby, LOL.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #179
All sorts of crimes regarding Foley were found. Octafish Jul 2015 #182
'Florida closes Foley investigation without charges" so by your Cosby standards, also innocent. bettyellen Jul 2015 #185
Not at all. Unlike you, Hastert & Boehner, I find the evidence compelling. Octafish Jul 2015 #195
As is the much testimony against Cosby, his lies and confession of employing drugs. bettyellen Jul 2015 #201
And note he wrote "Unlike you" accusing you of not finding the evidence against Foley compelling stevenleser Jul 2015 #212
Yeah, most of his replies have nothing to do with his dislike of calling Cos a rapist. bettyellen Jul 2015 #213
And he again asked upthread to provide examples of when he has accused other people of stuff stevenleser Jul 2015 #215
Lol, anything to deflect how he is basically a traitor to womankind. Society deserves protection.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #216
So now I'm a ''traitor to womankind''? Nice smear, bettyellen. Guess that's the best you can do... Octafish Jul 2015 #229
Another reply that has nothing to do with defending Cosby, LOL. bettyellen Jul 2015 #247
Sadly it is all too common BainsBane Jul 2015 #232
And we can't get through to him. He uses all these weird defense mechanisms instead of listening. stevenleser Jul 2015 #243
''The fact is that posting on DU is not 'fighting fascism''' -- stevenleser Octafish Jul 2015 #301
Keep it up carla Jul 2015 #145
Your Links and DU Posts are a "DU Treasure"..... KoKo Jul 2015 #159
I though Foley's case had "no criminal finding" so he's no more guilty than your BFF, Cosby.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #165
Florida dropped the case on grounds of ''insufficient evidence'' meaning GOP Congress covered up. Octafish Jul 2015 #181
LOL, and no one covered for Cosby. Sounds like two innocent lambs with conspiracy theories bettyellen Jul 2015 #186
Foley was in charge of protecting 'Missing and Exploited Children' Octafish Jul 2015 #191
No one accused you or "covering it up"? WTF? He wasn't found guilty- so he's not guilty according to your bettyellen Jul 2015 #193
Octafish, I love you. You obviously care enough to dig deep and hard towards AikidoSoul Jul 2015 #167
Too many links, just give us poor bastards some drugs ... seveneyes Jul 2015 #174
So…everything you posted about BFEE is wrong because… Bill Cosby? tularetom Jul 2015 #202
nope, you have that exactly backwards. His hypocrisy on Bill Cosby is somehow OK because he hates stevenleser Jul 2015 #220
Does Roger Ailes let you talk about anything related to the BFEE on tee vee? Octafish Jul 2015 #223
I'm not a Fox employee. So I can say anything I want. And we have proved you wrong dozens of times stevenleser Jul 2015 #225
Would you be if they offered you a job? Cleita Jul 2015 #230
You want me to publicly speculate on a nonexistent job offer? Yeah, that would be a good idea. stevenleser Jul 2015 #233
Why such umbrage? Cleita Jul 2015 #239
See Bainbanes #238 below, she says it better than I could stevenleser Jul 2015 #240
Sorry, the hypocrisy isn't apparent from where I'm standing tularetom Jul 2015 #226
Nope, there are half a dozen of us pointing out the same thing, so its not me. Nice try though. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #227
What I find interesting is exactly that tkmorris Jul 2015 #276
No. NuclearDem Jul 2015 #285
Fox News Contributors MoveIt Jul 2015 #207
There are no Fox News Contributors on DU. At least none that I am aware of. There are guests stevenleser Jul 2015 #214
Guest? Octafish Jul 2015 #221
Yes, guest, just like when I have been a guest on RT and elsewhere stevenleser Jul 2015 #224
By the way, am permalinking and sending this to my journal for reference to your ad hominems stevenleser Jul 2015 #228
What ad hominem from me? That's how Fox identified you. Octafish Jul 2015 #234
Nope, they wouldn't and never have, because I am not an employee. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #235
So those screen grabs are of someone with the same name as you who looks like you 3 times? Octafish Jul 2015 #265
Whose name should they have. What part of this don't you understand? Nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #267
You got at least three different job descriptions on FOX television. Octafish Jul 2015 #280
At least you've now moved the goalposts to where you are not accusing me of being an employee stevenleser Jul 2015 #281
Where did I accuse you of anything? Octafish Jul 2015 #286
If you mean that guy from that thing, yeah. Octafish Jul 2015 #222
Oh and in other words, you are accusing me of something here, but can't accuse Cosby. stevenleser Jul 2015 #251
Thanks for the welcome! MoveIt Jul 2015 #260
Welcome to DU. zappaman Jul 2015 #261
Who do you think MoveIt was, zappaman? Octafish Jul 2015 #263
Post #108 is awaiting your response zappaman Jul 2015 #266
Thanks for the reminder. Octafish Jul 2015 #272
You're very welcome, my old friend. zappaman Jul 2015 #273
I didn't know I had to answer to anyone. I'm that way with authority. Octafish Jul 2015 #278
No one said you had to, Brad. zappaman Jul 2015 #279
My name's not Brad, zappaman. It's Octafish. Octafish Jul 2015 #282
Have a great weekend, dude! zappaman Jul 2015 #283
You never did show where I am wrong, zappaman. Octafish Jul 2015 #287
Lol, right? Jumping right into a conflict with another DUer isn't remotely suspicious stevenleser Jul 2015 #268
You noticed that? Octafish Jul 2015 #262
Like Dennis Kucinich? BainsBane Jul 2015 #231
Yes, Dennis is a contributor, a paid employee of that network. I'm just a guest. nt stevenleser Jul 2015 #237
That they know this originated from a discussion involving you BainsBane Jul 2015 #238
No. It's about Justice. You must have ''forgotten.'' Octafish Jul 2015 #244
And I and every other Democrat on this site agrees that Bush is a lying, asshole BainsBane Jul 2015 #248
Where did I ''dissemble''? I don't like being called a liar, BainsBane. Octafish Jul 2015 #255
They don't care about the women, like you said its a game to them about personalities on DU. stevenleser Jul 2015 #246
If you want to see someone treated as the enemy BainsBane Jul 2015 #249
I did a big piece on rape culture in 2013 with Marcotte and I should show you the stats on that show stevenleser Jul 2015 #250
You know you see it with coverage of the Runaways too.... bettyellen Jul 2015 #253
As should Rothschild family conspiracy theorists. NuclearDem Jul 2015 #284
Right you are. See for yourself. Octafish Jul 2015 #294
K R & B Dont call me Shirley Jul 2015 #271
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