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Showing Original Post only (View all)What is Southern Heritage? [View all]
This OP was inspired by CTyankee's question.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026961256
If the Confederate battle flag is not about slavery but about Southern "heritage"
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can anyone tell us what that is? Is it George Washington and Thomas Jefferson?
Is there such a thing as "Northern heritage"? Would that be Lincoln, the Adams', Paul Revere, etc?
We hear so much about Southern heritage as if it is something distinct from slavery so is it related but yet not related to slavery?
The short answer is Southern Heritage is about shared suffering.
No region in the nation has experienced trauma to the extent laid upon the South, not just from the Civil War but for at least 70 years after that conflict, as it continuously trailed the rest of the nation from an economic standpoint living with major poverty, while also dealing with the largest percentage in the nation of having more than one race.
To experience what the South went through, only taking into account the deaths attributed to the Civil War
the modern day United States, would have to experience a war whereupon 30% of all males between the ages of 18 and 40 were to die, using the 2010 census and we're talking approximately 30 million men dying as a result. Towns and counties across the South were wiped out for at least a generation.
Now to be sure the North suffered from that conflict as well, they did have 10% of their 20-45 age male population dying as a result, however the vast majority of the battles took place in the South, and for the most part its already mediocre at best infrastructure was devastated as a result.
Another intangible is the psychological difference between "winning a war" and "losing it," we as a nation had some of our most tumultuous, societal divisions and upheavals while losing the relatively minor war in Vietnam.
Also while many in the South felt as an unwanted step-child to the nation from continuous slurs, put downs, innuendos, across the less than 1%'s corporate media's programming even to late night comedians, this only served to further magnify or solidify their common Southern Identity, in more than a few cases this has even crossed racial lines. Not only has this mass programming fed "Southern Heritage" but it also programmed far too many people in other regions of the nation in reinforcing their misconceptions on what the South is. In many ways we've become a nation of Pavlov Dogs.
To many Southerners, U.S. History as written by the victor and (it is) tends to whitewash the sins of the nation by passing it all on to the South's for its' major transgressions and of course they're very real as well. But how many people in school read that U.S. Grant owned a slave for two years, or that (heroic march to the sea) Sherman was pro-slavery and sympathized with the South prior to the Civil War, or even read about Lincoln's racists views? Perhaps things have changed in schools' history as of late but back in my day that was never mentioned.
Most people love to focus on Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, the Gettysburg's Address but I couldn't buy a rec here at D.U. by posting Honest Abe's Second Inaugural Address when he surmised that both sides were to blame for that conflict as punishment from an almighty God for tolerating slavery for hundreds of years.
I have no doubt it's because most people like to view their world as black and white, good versus evil with no shades of gray and simple answers to complex problems or questions and it's far easier to remove the mote from someone's eye other than your own.
I'm believe in two things for sure regionalism is racism's sibling and the former can and will aggravate or magnify the latter, to actually judge a person by the "content of their character," means looking past the color of their skin and their flag; to the very heart or motivation for them doing such a thing whether you agree with their motives or not. But to simply cast a person as being ignorant or racist for flying the Confederate Flag doesn't honor the spirit of MLK.
This scares the piss out of the less than 1%
I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit together at the table of brotherhood.
Martin Luther King, Jr.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/martinluth115055.html#sr0lV1D5ejIfEIv0.99
And this is their American Utopia
No one is more enslaved than a slave who doesn't think they're enslaved.
Kate Beckinsale
245 replies
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That was when everything for White people was Utopian, freedom from judgment, pride of
orpupilofnature57
Jul 2015
#7
If a flag does symbolize mainly "heritage", 60% heritage versus 40% racism, for example, that is 40% too much.
Fred Sanders
Jul 2015
#2
I have strong memories of that song, in High School we studied it, I don't recall
AuntPatsy
Jul 2015
#33
Believe it or not, there are many good fictional movies out there written by white men.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#69
Yes it was fiction, but might that movie have had many real life similarities,
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#74
It's weird that slavery and African Americans were pretty much ignored regardless n/t
gollygee
Jul 2015
#145
Yes I did, I thought it was an interesting movie, I think what some people get upset about
AuntPatsy
Jul 2015
#83
The equivalent of 30 million Americans killed in a four year war and you think that's absurd?
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#27
Touché. That a failed racist nation had to be forcibly made to end racism is no reason to pity
Fred Sanders
Jul 2015
#61
Meanwhile, the successful racist nation continued to kill "red savages" after the Civil War
Art_from_Ark
Jul 2015
#91
After one racist nation was defeated the nation that emerged was not as racist as it was imperialistic.
Fred Sanders
Jul 2015
#103
Indeed. Seems like a lot of folks on the thread are not shocked by the history because they do not know it.
Fred Sanders
Jul 2015
#106
No, they just had child labor and horrible working conditions in factories
Art_from_Ark
Jul 2015
#203
I'm not suggesting that slavery wasn't an evil and ongoing atrocitiy, a major travesty
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#76
I as a Southerner don't, this OP is my attempt at explaining what "heritage not hatred"
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#84
No doubt it's atrocious, but that isn't the question posed that I was trying to answer
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#129
People can still feel an emotional connection to a region, nation or historical event without
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#244
Color blind in the sense that race is no longer a grounds for pre-concieved notions.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#67
What I mean by color blind as being an ideal in that skin color means nothing more to the
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#184
I believe we're in agreement on the broad issue but I remember for the longest time
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#191
"Liberal" became the adjective for giving federal handouts to people that didn't earn
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#195
No he was not color blind. He was anti-racist and supported affirmative action
LostOne4Ever
Jul 2015
#43
That's precisely because society isn't colorblind or for that matter gender blind if it were such
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#54
A little light reading for you. (Hint: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was not "colorblind")
gollygee
Jul 2015
#45
Any word can be misused or co-opted the word "liberal" being a prime example.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#63
Do white people make pre-concieved assumptions about you because you're black or do black people
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#79
I know that, gollygee, it will take tremendous amounts of faith, patience, compassion, empathy,
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#86
That has nothing to do with whether MLK or they believe "color blind" is an ideal n/t
gollygee
Jul 2015
#142
The flag isn't the prism, each person has their own prism, reality or perception and within
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#158
No, you don't seem to understand MLK and substitute memes for real understanding.
bettyellen
Jul 2015
#199
You are too caught up in the Republican codeword and surrendered its true meaning.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#200
Oh bullshit. I'm too caught up in real life. The colorblind meme is a way of dismissing reality.
bettyellen
Jul 2015
#201
My colorblind meme and MLK's dream are both in sync, a utopian vision of the future.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#202
Don't you think with the qoute used MLK imagined a confederate flag over that table
Person 2713
Jul 2015
#22
I never said that MLK would imagine or envision a Confederate Flag at the table of brotherhood, what
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#25
And being SC was the first to succeed, it's fit they're first to join the 21st century .
orpupilofnature57
Jul 2015
#24
Except for a microscopic few, these flag-flyers' ancestors never wrote the articles of secession.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#29
Common sense should tell you, the average white Southerner; quite a few of which were illiterate
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#39
You answered your own question? All you have to do is google the total numbers of
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#52
Like I started ,,Antebellum was enjoyed by not only the 1%, but All White people,,
orpupilofnature57
Jul 2015
#98
Well here's a Georgia County; that's 92% white, flies the Confederate Flag, its high school
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#28
It is what it is and if they didn't believe in "heritage not hate," I highly doubt
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#38
Profound post that explains why the Civil War still shapes the American character
Octafish
Jul 2015
#66
When you say 'shared suffering' who are you talking about? Whites and blacks suffered equally?
freshwest
Jul 2015
#73
If you read the OP, you would know that it was answering a specific question from CTyankee
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#90
I am really amazed by this thread. It's like watching toddlers with parallel play.
FourScore
Jul 2015
#164
Prussia/Germany has one major intangible advantage, they're an ancient nation.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#138
Modern day Germany, but not the Germanic Peoples, they fought against Ancient Rome.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#165
I'm of the mind that economics and easy politics has a play in this as well.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#174
What is 'heritage'? What is the meaning of the word of choice here? Does 'heritage' mean 'history'?
Bluenorthwest
Jul 2015
#123
"Southern Heritage" = "I'm white and that makes me superior by default"
I_Like_Hammers
Jul 2015
#125
I have posted many times on this thread, that slavery was an absolute travesty.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#162
Again, that was the question that I was answering, I will repost and bold the key words, take
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#209
And what of your guilt? I doubt you even read all of my OP and ensuing thread.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#215
Well it's good that you're not buying something that I'm not trying to sell.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#219
Thank you, frustrated_lefty the most profound lesson that I learned long after school
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#180
Sorry. I live in the south, but this is a view through rose-colored glasses
Adenoid_Hynkel
Jul 2015
#192
I lived in the South. I can tell you what it is. It's music, food, religion and social politeness.
ancianita
Jul 2015
#212
I agree, ancianita, the South is rich and diverse in many ways and I suspect over time
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#217
That's not the heritage the Confederate flag wavers are "celebrating" though.
Arugula Latte
Jul 2015
#222
But that's my answer to the OP's question.The sickening, white "right order of things" is dying out.
ancianita
Jul 2015
#225
Yeah, I love it. It's part of an Atlanta exhibit, I believe. So much lovely Southern art!
ancianita
Jul 2015
#227
I couldn't agree more, annabanana wanting to break up the USA was a bad idea.
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#234
'while also dealing with the largest percentage in the nation of having more than one race. '
La Lioness Priyanka
Jul 2015
#224
Personally, I find it enriching, the South's culture and its expanded influence
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#232
That's where you're wrong, I may have fought for the Union if I had been alive 150 years ago,
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#236
General Sherman warned the South not to secede and he was prescient in his prediction
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#238
So in other words you're suggesting a person shouldn't have expressed their disapproval
Uncle Joe
Jul 2015
#242