General Discussion

JonLP24

(29,703 posts)

182. Your intentions & motivations maybe noble

Sun Jul 12, 2015, 03:53 AM

Jul 2015

in good faith but the use of "color blind" is problematic because it could be a view of being blind to the racism & bigotry that occurs. Plus it is illogical to claim blindness for colors because unless you're are literally blind you're not blind so people do see color it exists, I see Al Gore in your avatar, I see he is also white I don't care if he is or not but I do see his 'color'. I was formerly in an interracial marriage and divorce had nothing to do with differences in skin color but her family could 'see' I was white and vice versa. I wish society at large didn't hate if that is what you mean, I noticed a lot of hate I wasn't aware of how common it was because I could see.

Treat people based on fairness & equality with only their qualifications certainly but colorblind or those who infamously say "I don't see color" are often controversial talking points and best should be avoided.

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What is Southern Heritage? [View all] Uncle Joe Jul 2015 OP

Antebellum orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #1

Thanks for the rec, orpupilofnature, but would you care to elaborate? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #3

That was when everything for White people was Utopian, freedom from judgment, pride of orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #7

The less than 1% dominated both regions and as is the case with most wars Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #8

If a flag does symbolize mainly "heritage", 60% heritage versus 40% racism, for example, that is 40% too much. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #2

I agree, Fred Sanders, for that matter 10% racism is too much. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #4

The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #5

Thanks for the addition, AuntPatsy, here is Joan Baez's version. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #6

I have strong memories of that song, in High School we studied it, I don't recall AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #33

Have you seen the movie "Cold Mountain?" Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #36

The fictional movie? gollygee Jul 2015 #48

Believe it or not, there are many good fictional movies out there written by white men. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #69

Yes gollygee Jul 2015 #70

Yes it was fiction, but might that movie have had many real life similarities, Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #74

It certainly wasn't pro-war. gollygee Jul 2015 #75

In relation to a story in some instances, they may just not have been there. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #87

Do a quick google search "Population of North Carolina in 1860" gollygee Jul 2015 #100

There weren't as many in the hill country as in the more level areas, Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #124

It's weird that slavery and African Americans were pretty much ignored regardless n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #145

Yes I did, I thought it was an interesting movie, I think what some people get upset about AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #83

I believe it's the eternal battle between emotion and intellect. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #88

A great performance by Joan Baez goldent Jul 2015 #108

Disgusting song. BillZBubb Jul 2015 #17

Listen to the song again, I don't see it the same... AuntPatsy Jul 2015 #34

Try this one . . . . hatrack Jul 2015 #105

So, you wish to take pride in suffering? kwassa Jul 2015 #9

When you have nothing else, you take pride in suffering. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #11

Comparing the suffering of white to black southerners is absurd kwassa Jul 2015 #23

The equivalent of 30 million Americans killed in a four year war and you think that's absurd? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #27

Slavery was far, far worse gollygee Jul 2015 #53

Touché. That a failed racist nation had to be forcibly made to end racism is no reason to pity Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #61

Meanwhile, the successful racist nation continued to kill "red savages" after the Civil War Art_from_Ark Jul 2015 #91

After one racist nation was defeated the nation that emerged was not as racist as it was imperialistic. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #103

The north and the post-civil war US as a whole don't get off either gollygee Jul 2015 #104

Indeed. Seems like a lot of folks on the thread are not shocked by the history because they do not know it. Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #106

We too often write the history that is easiest for us to read gollygee Jul 2015 #107

Oh, please Art_from_Ark Jul 2015 #204

not pure, but they didn't have slavery as an institution treestar Jul 2015 #116

No, they just had child labor and horrible working conditions in factories Art_from_Ark Jul 2015 #203

I'm not suggesting that slavery wasn't an evil and ongoing atrocitiy, a major travesty Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #76

I'm sure some people were drafted gollygee Jul 2015 #78

I as a Southerner don't, this OP is my attempt at explaining what "heritage not hatred" Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #84

I'll point you back to post #45 gollygee Jul 2015 #85

MLK said much more, which is extremely difficult for many people to accept. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #127

He did not think "color blind" was an ideal. n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #144

I disagree. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #147

Have you read the articles in post #45 gollygee Jul 2015 #148

Yes I have and my point still stands. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #156

No, it doesn't mean people will be blind to people's color gollygee Jul 2015 #157

Yes we are visual and I'm not speaking of being literallly color blind Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #161

Color blind is 'la la la, I can't see you', a way to dismiss someone... Spazito Jul 2015 #112

That to me is being color blind, from a pyschological standpoint. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #126

When you pull out one statement from a lifetime of work... Spazito Jul 2015 #128

I'm not just pulling one statement, MLK said much more. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #131

There is nothing in those quotes on the subject of 'color blindness'... Spazito Jul 2015 #135

I have read MLK's works and listened to his speeches. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #136

Using Brainy quotes illustrates nothing of substance, imo... Spazito Jul 2015 #137

You have your opinion and I have mine. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #139

and that much worse suffering was due to this evil "heritage" treestar Jul 2015 #117

What is the "equivalent" in the number of slaves? Fred Sanders Jul 2015 #65

No doubt it's atrocious, but that isn't the question posed that I was trying to answer Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #129

It was a war they started. Adrahil Jul 2015 #241

People can still feel an emotional connection to a region, nation or historical event without Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #244

+1000 sheshe2 Jul 2015 #82

In addition, your misuse of MLK is ridiculous. kwassa Jul 2015 #10

MLK was colorblind, he had the ability to look past superficial constructs. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #14

MLK was not colorblind. kwassa Jul 2015 #19

He was as close as you can get, especially for his time. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #21

You've made two errors kwassa Jul 2015 #30

That's illogical, color blind is the ulimate goal for our society to reach Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #32

No, it isn't. kwassa Jul 2015 #37

Does it bother you when you're out in public Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #40

You miss this concept, too. kwassa Jul 2015 #50

Colorblind in that sense SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #55

Color blind in the sense that race is no longer a grounds for pre-concieved notions. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #67

It would be pretty to think so. nt SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #68

the confederate flag represents heaven05 Jul 2015 #177

Your intentions & motivations maybe noble JonLP24 Jul 2015 #182

What I mean by color blind as being an ideal in that skin color means nothing more to the Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #184

liberal to me simply means left of center on the political compass JonLP24 Jul 2015 #190

I believe we're in agreement on the broad issue but I remember for the longest time Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #191

Certainly aware of the effort JonLP24 Jul 2015 #193

"Liberal" became the adjective for giving federal handouts to people that didn't earn Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #195

That is why I think a lot of people here look back fondly to the Reagan days JonLP24 Jul 2015 #197

P.S. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #185

Al Gore was just the first example I could think of JonLP24 Jul 2015 #187

I know you weren't, I just wanted to make my position clear. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #189

I actually tried to look him up recently JonLP24 Jul 2015 #198

Al Gore was just the first example I could think of JonLP24 Jul 2015 #188

No he was not color blind. He was anti-racist and supported affirmative action LostOne4Ever Jul 2015 #43

That's precisely because society isn't colorblind or for that matter gender blind if it were such Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #54

No it wouldn't LostOne4Ever Jul 2015 #56

A little light reading for you. (Hint: Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was not "colorblind") gollygee Jul 2015 #45

Any word can be misused or co-opted the word "liberal" being a prime example. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #63

No, it is not an ideal gollygee Jul 2015 #64

Do white people make pre-concieved assumptions about you because you're black or do black people Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #79

We can't erase people's history gollygee Jul 2015 #80

I know that, gollygee, it will take tremendous amounts of faith, patience, compassion, empathy, Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #86

Don't co-opt their tragedy either gollygee Jul 2015 #101

Do you believe their murderer was uttering a truth? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #132

That has nothing to do with whether MLK or they believe "color blind" is an ideal n/t gollygee Jul 2015 #142

but a flag of all things is a collective prism treestar Jul 2015 #118

The flag isn't the prism, each person has their own prism, reality or perception and within Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #158

well most people are going to see the confederate battle flag treestar Jul 2015 #168

I believe that statement is true. n/t Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #169

No, you don't seem to understand MLK and substitute memes for real understanding. bettyellen Jul 2015 #199

You are too caught up in the Republican codeword and surrendered its true meaning. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #200

Oh bullshit. I'm too caught up in real life. The colorblind meme is a way of dismissing reality. bettyellen Jul 2015 #201

My colorblind meme and MLK's dream are both in sync, a utopian vision of the future. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #202

Don't you think with the qoute used MLK imagined a confederate flag over that table Person 2713 Jul 2015 #22

I never said that MLK would imagine or envision a Confederate Flag at the table of brotherhood, what Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #25

This message was self-deleted by its author liberaltrucker Jul 2015 #12

But then their heritage is due to their fighting for slavery treestar Jul 2015 #13

Like art, the value or non-value of any symbol is determined Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #15

These flag-flyers don't know real history. kwassa Jul 2015 #20

And being SC was the first to succeed, it's fit they're first to join the 21st century . orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #24

Except for a microscopic few, these flag-flyers' ancestors never wrote the articles of secession. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #29

You don't know this. kwassa Jul 2015 #31

Common sense should tell you, the average white Southerner; quite a few of which were illiterate Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #39

So, you made up this statistic. kwassa Jul 2015 #44

You answered your own question? All you have to do is google the total numbers of Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #52

Your argument makes no sense. kwassa Jul 2015 #62

Widespread sentiments kicked up by newspapers in towns that had them and who Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #92

I'll agree the majority of them likely did not own slaves treestar Jul 2015 #115

It was much higher than 1% gollygee Jul 2015 #120

In MS and SC in the 40s treestar Jul 2015 #122

80% of Confederate soldiers were literate. KitSileya Jul 2015 #210

I said "quite a few were illiterate" and 20% or 1 out of 5 Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #211

Like I started ,,Antebellum was enjoyed by not only the 1%, but All White people,, orpupilofnature57 Jul 2015 #98

Maybe they should think of becoming Americans first treestar Jul 2015 #114

that is the specious claim that the civil war was not about slavery. Warren Stupidity Jul 2015 #133

Southern Heritage: Slavery, Treason, and Poverty BillZBubb Jul 2015 #16

Slavery yes, but as Lincoln believed that's also an American Heritage. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #18

You are wrong about regionalism Bad Thoughts Jul 2015 #26

Well here's a Georgia County; that's 92% white, flies the Confederate Flag, its high school Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #28

And the Southern heritage view is based on a myth. kwassa Jul 2015 #35

It is what it is and if they didn't believe in "heritage not hate," I highly doubt Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #38

You missed my point. Completely. kwassa Jul 2015 #42

What is the myth that I'm peddling? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #46

Already told you. kwassa Jul 2015 #51

When I think of Southern heritage romanic Jul 2015 #41

That works as well, romanic, people have their own take on it. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #47

Thanks romanic Jul 2015 #49

One of the very great things about the South SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #57

There is southern heritage and then there is southern SHAME LostOne4Ever Jul 2015 #58

My racist dad SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #59

Let's listen to the Wailers struggle4progress Jul 2015 #60

Profound post that explains why the Civil War still shapes the American character Octafish Jul 2015 #66

Thanks for the addition, Octafish, no doubt I'm just scratching the surface, Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #72

Now I know why the other thread was started DashOneBravo Jul 2015 #71

When you say 'shared suffering' who are you talking about? Whites and blacks suffered equally? freshwest Jul 2015 #73

If you read the OP, you would know that it was answering a specific question from CTyankee Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #90

What is southern heritage? underthematrix Jul 2015 #77

. struggle4progress Jul 2015 #81

As a Southerner, I understand these complexities FourScore Jul 2015 #89

I appreciate your understandiing. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #93

I am really amazed by this thread. It's like watching toddlers with parallel play. FourScore Jul 2015 #164

I do wish more than anything that people could understand Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #183

As a Northerner ann--- Jul 2015 #110

thank you for supporting my comment with such a prime example. n/t FourScore Jul 2015 #113

I'm from a border state and so cannot understand treestar Jul 2015 #119

My only comment pertaining to race was that the Civil War had an impact FourScore Jul 2015 #160

I see the impact on black people treestar Jul 2015 #166

I understand. There is so much I could say... FourScore Jul 2015 #173

Thank you for your effort. Comrade Grumpy Jul 2015 #94

Thank you, Comrade Grumpy. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #95

Victim of the Brits PATRICK Jul 2015 #96

It's a contradiction no_hypocrisy Jul 2015 #97

My dad was a 'Bama man JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #99

Excellent post! Spazito Jul 2015 #111

Thank you! treestar Jul 2015 #121

Prussia/Germany has one major intangible advantage, they're an ancient nation. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #138

Germany is younger than the US JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #159

Modern day Germany, but not the Germanic Peoples, they fought against Ancient Rome. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #165

Many of us have moved on JustAnotherGen Jul 2015 #171

I'm of the mind that economics and easy politics has a play in this as well. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #174

Everybody has a heritage... kentuck Jul 2015 #102

Secession ann--- Jul 2015 #109

What is 'heritage'? What is the meaning of the word of choice here? Does 'heritage' mean 'history'? Bluenorthwest Jul 2015 #123

"Southern Heritage" = "I'm white and that makes me superior by default" I_Like_Hammers Jul 2015 #125

What a pantload. Texasgal Jul 2015 #130

Southern Heritage includes not only slavery but Jim Crow. Warren Stupidity Jul 2015 #134

And the North had nothing to do with Jim Crow? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #141

And then there are those of us (many of us) frazzled Jul 2015 #140

I agree with the overall theme of your post, frazzled. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #143

I certainly don't know, but perhaps we each could start frazzled Jul 2015 #152

I believe that's a good answer. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #153

Awww, boo hoo, Southern whites suffered from the Civil War ... Arugula Latte Jul 2015 #146

Good argument, no one ever thought of that! Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #149

Thank you. I'm a well-known historian. Arugula Latte Jul 2015 #150

Whatever one chooses it to be. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2015 #151

In paticular, your first and last sentence nail it. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #155

So you celebrate... mentalsolstice Jul 2015 #170

I'm not celebrating here, I'm trying to explain emotional dynamics and Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #172

I understand what you're trying to say - TBF Jul 2015 #154

I have posted many times on this thread, that slavery was an absolute travesty. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #162

It doesn't seem like you answered that question though - TBF Jul 2015 #163

Because the question was aimed Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #167

It was not less than 2% gollygee Jul 2015 #175

You are correct, I was thinking more about the major slave holders. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #176

What about "the perspective" of those who were enslaved? TBF Jul 2015 #205

Again, that was the question that I was answering, I will repost and bold the key words, take Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #209

"Entire picture of human suffering" - TBF Jul 2015 #213

And what of your guilt? I doubt you even read all of my OP and ensuing thread. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #215

Sorry but I'm not buying your TBF Jul 2015 #216

Well it's good that you're not buying something that I'm not trying to sell. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #219

You are arguing that 1% were the serious owners and that TBF Jul 2015 #220

Are we all responsible for the drones that Obama launched? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #221

Ya know.... frustrated_lefty Jul 2015 #178

Thank you, frustrated_lefty the most profound lesson that I learned long after school Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #180

My friends in the Army JonLP24 Jul 2015 #179

Thanks for sharing, JonL. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #181

Thank you, Jon frustrated_lefty Jul 2015 #186

Sorry. I live in the south, but this is a view through rose-colored glasses Adenoid_Hynkel Jul 2015 #192

Rose-colored glasses? Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #194

P.S. One other little piece of historical trivia since you brought it up. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #196

A mighty smooth drink! KamaAina Jul 2015 #206

"Southern Heritage" is hate and bigotry. Cyrano Jul 2015 #207

It's treason followed by a visit from Uncle Billy XRubicon Jul 2015 #208

I lived in the South. I can tell you what it is. It's music, food, religion and social politeness. ancianita Jul 2015 #212

I agree, ancianita, the South is rich and diverse in many ways and I suspect over time Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #217

... ancianita Jul 2015 #218

When we continue to pick at our wounds via talk of secession... LanternWaste Jul 2015 #231

That's not the heritage the Confederate flag wavers are "celebrating" though. Arugula Latte Jul 2015 #222

But that's my answer to the OP's question.The sickening, white "right order of things" is dying out. ancianita Jul 2015 #225

What an interesting photo! (painting?) It's a New South. kentuck Jul 2015 #226

Yeah, I love it. It's part of an Atlanta exhibit, I believe. So much lovely Southern art! ancianita Jul 2015 #227

Yep! kentuck Jul 2015 #228

It's the "Gone With the Wind" romantic notion of the South. MatthewStLouis Jul 2015 #214

shared suffering = karma annabanana Jul 2015 #223

I couldn't agree more, annabanana wanting to break up the USA was a bad idea. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #234

'while also dealing with the largest percentage in the nation of having more than one race. ' La Lioness Priyanka Jul 2015 #224

Personally, I find it enriching, the South's culture and its expanded influence Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #232

It's all of the above. kentuck Jul 2015 #229

Watch "Django" for an editorial depiction...[n/t] Maedhros Jul 2015 #230

I've seen Django, Twelve Years a Slave and Roots, I've also seen Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #233

Have you seen this guy? XRubicon Jul 2015 #235

That's where you're wrong, I may have fought for the Union if I had been alive 150 years ago, Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #236

General Sherman Despised Treason XRubicon Jul 2015 #237

General Sherman warned the South not to secede and he was prescient in his prediction Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #238

You seem to be able to use google XRubicon Jul 2015 #239

So in other words you're suggesting a person shouldn't have expressed their disapproval Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #242

"But to simply cast a person as being ignorant or racist for flying the Confederate Flag doesn't... XRubicon Jul 2015 #243

Thanks for the post and following discussion. JEB Jul 2015 #240

Thanks for your support, JEB. Uncle Joe Jul 2015 #245