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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
74. That's the Thing.
Fri May 13, 2016, 07:13 PM
May 2016

As you observed, there is very little faith in the government today. It stems directly from that awful day more than half a century ago.

For most of the last 52 years -- from Vietnam to Afghanistan, from Somalia to El Salvador and elsewhere -- money trumps peace. The ENEMIES of JFK and Democracy now use their wealth to gain power and use power to protect their wealth and position, just like in feudal days. It is especially evident when you consider the rich, warmongers, and the traitors who lie America into war are above the law and are never held to account.



JFK was a Democrat in the New Deal tradition. He believed in using the powers of government to make life better for ALL Americans. He also believed in democracy for other countries, from Congo to Vietnam.



Dodd and Dulles vs. Kennedy in Africa

“In assessing the central character ...
Gibbon’s description of the Byzantine general
Belisarius may suggest a comparison:
‘His imperfections flowed from the contagion of the times;
his virtues were his own.’”
— Richard Mahoney on President Kennedy


By Jim DiEugenio
CTKA, From the January-February 1999 issue (Vol. 6 No. 2)

EXCERPT…

The Self-Education of John F. Kennedy

During Kennedy’s six years in the House, 1947-1952, he concentrated on domestic affairs, bread and butter issues that helped his middle class Massachusetts constituents. As Henry Gonzalez noted in his blurb for Donald Gibson’s Battling Wall Street, he met Kennedy at a housing conference in 1951 and got the impression that young Kennedy was genuinely interested in the role that government could play in helping most Americans. But when Kennedy, his father, and his advisers decided to run for the upper house in 1952, they knew that young Jack would have to educate himself in the field of foreign affairs and gain a higher cosmopolitan profile. After all, he was running against that effete, urbane, Boston Brahmin Henry Cabot Lodge. So Kennedy decided to take two seven-week-long trips. The first was to Europe. The second was a little unusual in that his itinerary consisted of places like the Middle East, India, and Indochina. (While in India, he made the acquaintance of Prime Minister Nehru who would end up being a lifelong friend and adviser.)

Another unusual thing about the second trip was his schedule after he got to his stops. In Saigon, he ditched his French military guides and sought out the names of the best reporters and State Department officials so he would not get the standard boilerplate on the French colonial predicament in Indochina. After finding these sources, he would show up at their homes and apartments unannounced. His hosts were often surprised that such a youthful looking young man could be a congressman. Kennedy would then pick their minds at length as to the true political conditions in that country.

If there is a real turning point in Kennedy’s political career it is this trip. There is little doubt that what he saw and learned deeply affected and altered his world view and he expressed his developing new ideas in a speech he made upon his return on November 14, 1951. Speaking of French Indochina he said: "This is an area of human conflict between civilizations striving to be born and those desperately trying to retain what they have held for so long." He later added that "the fires of nationalism so long dormant have been kindled and are now ablaze....Here colonialism is not a topic for tea-talk discussion; it is the daily fare of millions of men." He then criticized the U. S. State Department for its laid back and lackadaisical approach to this problem:

One finds too many of our representatives toadying to the shorter aims of other Western nations with no eagerness to understand the real hopes and desires of the people to which they are accredited.


The basic idea that Kennedy brought back from this trip was that, in the Third World, the colonial or imperial powers were bound to lose in the long run since the force of nationalism in those nascent countries was so powerful, so volcanic, that no extended empire could contain it indefinitely. This did not mean that Kennedy would back any revolutionary force fighting an imperial power. Although he understood the appeal of communism to the revolutionaries, he was against it. He wanted to establish relations and cooperate with leaders of the developing world who wished to find a "third way," one that was neither Marxist nor necessarily pro-Western. He was trying to evolve a policy that considered the particular history and circumstances of the nations now trying to break the shackles of poverty and ignorance inflicted upon them by the attachments of empire. Kennedy understood and sympathized with the temperaments of those leaders of the Third World who wished to be nonaligned with either the Russians or the Americans and this explains his relationships with men like Nehru and Sukarno of Indonesia. So, for Kennedy, Nixon’s opposition toward Ho Chi Minh’s upcoming victory over the French in Vietnam was not so much a matter of Cold War ideology, but one of cool and measured pragmatism. As he stated in 1953, the year before the French fell:

The war would never be successful ... unless large numbers of the people of Vietnam were won over from their sullen neutrality and open hostility. This could never be done ... unless they were assured beyond doubt that complete independence would be theirs at the conclusion of the war.

To say the least, this is not what the Dulles brothers John Foster and Allen had in mind. Once the French empire fell, they tried to urge upon Eisenhower an overt American intervention in the area. When Eisenhower said no, Allen Dulles sent in a massive CIA covert operation headed by Air Force officer Edward Lansdale. In other words, the French form of foreign domination was replaced by the American version.

CONTINUED…

http://www.ctka.net/pr199-africa.html



Jim DiEugenio also is a DUer.

PS: Welcome to DU, rperlberg. Hope to read more of your thoughts on matters of interest and import. If Americans don't underrstand how much things have changed since the assassination of President Kennedy, they need to read more. Television isn't bringing it up, nor do the trolls online.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Interesting life. His role in Jonestown is certainly eye opening. nt hack89 May 2016 #1
Mark Lane was a Social Justice Warrior before there was such a term. Octafish May 2016 #14
He was also crazy as a loon, at least in regards to his role in Jonestown. hack89 May 2016 #19
The CIA instructed its ''Media Assets'' to demonize Mark Lane in 1967. Octafish May 2016 #31
Not according to your link hack89 May 2016 #33
Links go to the document. Octafish May 2016 #39
I don't know if it it illegal or not. hack89 May 2016 #40
Yes. CIA by law was limited to overseas operations, no domestic operations. Octafish May 2016 #41
Ok. Mark Lane was still a loon however. nt hack89 May 2016 #44
That's what you and CIA wrote. That's not what history shows. Octafish May 2016 #46
Take a close look at his role in Jonestown. Pure batshit crazy to put it mildly. hack89 May 2016 #47
Please show how. Octafish May 2016 #49
Sure hack89 May 2016 #50
Doesn't seem loony, considering CIA works its magic on Wikipedia. Octafish May 2016 #56
So working with a mad man in the jungles to brainwash a bunch of people hack89 May 2016 #60
But Lane didn't do any of that, did he? Octafish May 2016 #61
ok. nt hack89 May 2016 #62
You don't know what you're talking about. milestogo May 2016 #67
He was a genuine conspiracy theory peddling nut case. hack89 May 2016 #69
Not at all. Ask Robert K. Tanenbaum. Octafish May 2016 #84
How about the establishment documents of the CIA. It expressly prohibits operations inside the US. Zen Democrat May 2016 #51
Did he die under "mysterious circumstances?" nt firebrand80 May 2016 #2
It was the BFEE, obviously. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #3
George H.W. Bush should be considered a suspect, based on what he told the FBI. Octafish May 2016 #6
TL;DR Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #7
Nothing says, ''I don't have a clue'' as your post. Octafish May 2016 #8
The BFEE made me do it. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #9
Those are FBI documents. Octafish May 2016 #11
Cool story. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #12
Learn then: JFK had to order Hoover to integrate the FBI. Octafish May 2016 #17
"Important parts of history" Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #18
I'll take Dick Gregory over Dr Hobbitstein of DU any day. Octafish May 2016 #20
We also know you love some Paul Craig Roberts. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #21
I've never called him a douche, if that's what you mean. Octafish May 2016 #22
Confidence in the government? rperlberg May 2016 #73
That's the Thing. Octafish May 2016 #74
So you come in here and crap in the thread...stay classy. Rex May 2016 #35
You are the most clueless CS poster on this board. Almost a parody of CS everywhere. nt Logical May 2016 #99
Personal attacks are so you, Logical. Octafish May 2016 #102
oh for god's sake... how pathetic Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #24
There are very pathetic people that post here and support the Bush family. Rex May 2016 #36
Pure unmitigated ignorance. Zen Democrat May 2016 #55
ALCOA! NuclearDem May 2016 #30
He suffered a heart attack. Octafish May 2016 #15
I Never Actually Thought RobinA May 2016 #23
With all respect, I do have a problem with the lone loser theory. Octafish May 2016 #28
I Think RobinA May 2016 #25
This I will tell you: Your life is better for Mark Lane having lived. Octafish May 2016 #94
"expert"? FLPanhandle May 2016 #4
Bertrand Russell respected Mark Lane. Octafish May 2016 #16
Damn. They finally got him. (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #5
Did you hear about Cheney and CIA Assassination cover-up? Octafish May 2016 #29
Hmmmm. Gidney N Cloyd May 2016 #10
Truman criticized CIA after the assassination of JFK. Fired CIA boss Dulles demanded retraction. Octafish May 2016 #45
RIP Mark Lane GreatGazoo May 2016 #13
very interesting yourpaljoey May 2016 #27
They couldn't out-think him, so they had to smear Mark Lane. Octafish May 2016 #70
he lived a long and important life Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #26
He did. Another important eyewitness is still with us: Abraham BOLDEN Octafish May 2016 #63
that's right-- thanks for the reminder. I heard him interviewed a few years back Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #65
His book Plausible Denial is a pretty interestin read. avebury May 2016 #32
Great book. Great case. And E. Howard Hunt was a real piece of wetwork. Octafish May 2016 #86
The funny thing about the Hunt lawsuit is that, based on Hunt's testimony, avebury May 2016 #88
Mark Lane arrives at the pearly gates Capt. Obvious May 2016 #34
Dont give up your day job HOPNOSH May 2016 #37
I thought it was pretty funny (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #43
LOL nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #48
Now THAT is a funny joke. nt Dreamer Tatum May 2016 #58
I laughed Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #66
I see the DU children are happy he died, why are they so pathetic Octafish? Rex May 2016 #38
Their pathetic nature is due to their ignorance. Octafish May 2016 #72
Mark Lane was a kook. Archae May 2016 #42
There is NO credible evidence that Oswald shot at JFK, much less killed him. Zen Democrat May 2016 #53
I've studied the murder of JFK since I was 15 years old. Zen Democrat May 2016 #54
What do you want for your 16th birthday? nt Dreamer Tatum May 2016 #59
*snort* NuclearDem May 2016 #64
Lee Harvey Oswald killed Mark Lane!!! Fozzledick May 2016 #68
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a realist and a student of history and our times. Zen Democrat May 2016 #89
You're not very good at recognizing sarcasm though. Fozzledick May 2016 #90
Lane said the only evidence linking Oswald was CE399. Octafish May 2016 #114
Excellent summation. FTR: Gen. LeMay lied about his whereabouts. Octafish May 2016 #115
You compared discussing the assassination of President Kennedy to beating a dead horse. Octafish May 2016 #71
Here. Archae May 2016 #78
Get a copy of Barry and the Boys by Daniel Hopsicker....the story lives on. ViseGrip May 2016 #52
David Ferrie, Barry Seal and Lee Oswald: Patsies or Participants? Octafish May 2016 #105
Sorry dear O-fish….. blm May 2016 #57
Thank you for your kindness, blm. Octafish May 2016 #82
((Octafish)) blm May 2016 #83
It's telling that the members of the Warren Commission are silent about his passing. Kaleva May 2016 #75
Why honor a peddler of conspiratorial BS? YoungDemCA May 2016 #96
The commissioners all have passed. Some staff are still with us. Octafish May 2016 #108
Excellent information, Octafish, thanks for posting. JonLeibowitz May 2016 #76
You are most welcome, JonLeibowitz! I very much appreciate that you understand and care. Octafish May 2016 #113
My condolences. I know from your posts, he was an important figure in your life. MerryBlooms May 2016 #77
Thank you for your kindness, MerryBlooms. Octafish May 2016 #81
K&R!!!!!! burrowowl May 2016 #79
Here's an excellent radio interview with Mr. Lane via Project CENSORED Octafish May 2016 #92
My first memories of Mark Lane was from the 1967 interview Duppers May 2016 #80
Thank you very much, Duppers. Here's what James DiEugenio wrote last week... Octafish May 2016 #110
Wow! Thanks for posting that article link and... Duppers May 2016 #112
This sounds fishy to me. I bet he's still alive. Gomez163 May 2016 #85
Condolences to you & to his family, friends & followers - PAMod May 2016 #87
Thank you, PAMod. Please know I very much appreciate your perspectives. Octafish May 2016 #111
did he say anything about Cruz's father ? Laura PourMeADrink May 2016 #91
I don't know. Do know the guy who did is dead by gunshot under suspicious circumstances. Octafish May 2016 #93
Looks like "they" got another one! YoungDemCA May 2016 #95
Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and CIA-Cuban “Deep Politics” Octafish May 2016 #100
It's truly sad to see someone who dedicated his life to crackpot "theories" pass away YoungDemCA May 2016 #97
Now THAT is asinine. Octafish May 2016 #101
I ASSUMED MURDERED!!!!!! The truth is out there!!!! nt Logical May 2016 #98
What do you know about Mark Lane? Octafish May 2016 #103
Sounds like a good man, but that does not mean he is right about jfk. Nt Logical May 2016 #104
So why do you have to insult his memory and smear his good name? Octafish May 2016 #109
Dalton Trumbo MinM May 2016 #106
Trumbo's lesson: The Right will do anything to get its way. Octafish May 2016 #107
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