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Octafish

(55,745 posts)
115. Excellent summation. FTR: Gen. LeMay lied about his whereabouts.
Thu May 19, 2016, 11:57 PM
May 2016

Gen. LeMay was airborne that awful day and not on vacation, as he said. JFK Conference: Bill Kelly introduced new evidence - adding Air Force One tape recordings...

As a Democrat, a DUer and as a citizen of the United States, I was proud to attend the Passing the Torch: An International Symposium on the 50th Anniversary of the Assassination of President John F. Kennedy at Duquesne University. One of the many important things discussed there was what historian and researcher, William E. Kelly, Jr. presented to the conference. He added new information to the historical record: a more complete record of the Air Force One radio transmissions made on Nov. 22, 1963. Now a fellow DUer, please welcome Bill Kelly, should he pop up on a thread.



In his presentation, Mr. Kelly described the provenance of the new recording -- discovered among the personal effects of Gen. Chester Clifton, an aide to President Kennedy who was aboard Air Force One on the trip to Dallas. The new tapes add content to what was on the version held by the National Archives.

To get as much information as possible from the new material, Mr. Kelly contacted Ed Primeau, the audio expert who had assisted in the analysis of 9-11 recordings in the Trayvon Martin case. Mr. Kelly and Mr. Primeau combined the tapes and created a transcript. It is available online:

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/

Interestingly, the more complete tape still does not have information that was, evidently, available in the mid-1960s when authors Theodore White, William Manchester and JFK Press Secretary Pierre Salinger quoted from them in their books. Among the points those authors made that are not on the tapes available: Sections of military personnel conversations from the plane to Washington; President Lyndon B. Johnson was concerned about Soviet involvement in the assassination; McGeorge Bundy was in charge of the Situation Room at the White House; Bundy contacted Air Force One to report Oswald arrested and there was no conspiracy.

Here's an overview of what the new Air Force One tapes:

http://vimeo.com/76173546

The new combined Air Force One tape is about an hour and half long. It still may be a small fraction of what may still be available in some archive, based on the amount of material referenced and the normal procedure to tape all transmissions between Air Force One and the various governmental and military authorities. Mr. Kelly estimates there may be as much as 8 hours of AF1 tapes from that terrible day in Dallas.

Some important background on the tapes and the history:



Chilling tape from Air Force One on day JFK shot just released.

CBS News, Jan. 31, 2012

It's been nearly a half-century since the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

EXCERPT...

The full audio of transmissions from White House Communications Agency (which captured the tapes) that day includes 42 minutes edited out of the original public version. It's likely to peak the interest of conspiracy theorists who are already asking why this material was cut out of the original.

Then-Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Curtis LeMay had been a frequent opponent of Kennedy's. His whereabouts on the day of the assassination has always been a mystery.

In the newly public audio, we learn that LeMay was airborne, even as JFK's body was being flown back to Washington. And an aide to LeMay tried urgently to reach his boss.

"General LeMay," the aide said, "is in a C 140. ... He's inbound. His code name is Grandson. And I wanna talk to him. ... If you can't work him now, it's gonna be too late, because he'll be on the ground in a half-hour."

Historian Robert Dallek suggests doubters will wonder if the aide's comments about not reaching LeMay within 30 minutes may be "too late" could have some sinister meaning. "I'd doubt these tapes will put the conspiracy theory to rest," he says. "They continue to believe it was a conspiracy and again, they just can't accept the proposition that a lone wolf, a single, and someone as dysfunctional as Lee Harvey Oswald, could have carried off this assassination of the president."

CONTINUED...

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57368696/chilling-tape-from-air-force-one-on-day-jfk-shot/



For those new to Gen. Curtis LeMay and his relationship with President Kennedy:



JFK Cuba crisis tapes released

By Jon Marcus
Associated Press

BOSTON (AP) -117 ‹ At the height of the Cuban missile crisis, one of President John F. Kennedy's top military commanders warned him that failing to invade the island would be like backing down to Hitler's initial demands in Europe.

"This is almost as bad as the appeasement at Munich," Air Force Chief of Staff Gen. Curtis LeMay told Kennedy on Oct. 19, 1962, according to newly declassified White House tape recordings released Thursday.

LeMay's comment "was an amazing thing to say to any president, but it was a particularly amazing thing to say to this president," said Sheldon Stern, historian at the John F. Kennedy Library in Boston, where the tape recordings were released. "It's a deep personal insult."

Kennedy's father, Joseph P. Kennedy, served as U.S. ambassador to Britain at the time of the 1938 Munich conference, where the British and French agreed to let Nazi Germany take land from Czechoslovakia in exch ange for a short-lived promise of peace. The elder Kennedy's support of appeasement later was strongly criticized and may have cost him any hope of running for national office.

LeMay, like other military leaders, advocated immediate military intervention to destroy the Soviet missiles and unfinished silos that had been detected by aerial reconnaissance in Cuba. He said blockading ships bound for Cuba, as other presidential advisers urged, would lead to war anyway.

President Kennedy, who privately called LeMay "field marshal," did not respond to the remark and the meeting went on to cover other military and diplomatic issues.

CONTINUED...

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl/1996_1373492/tapes-from-cuban-missile-crisis-reveal-insult-by-k.html



The tapes show that Col. Dorman wanted desperately to reach Gen. Curtis LeMay to know before he landed. The tapes also show Gen. LeMay disobeyed an order from Air Force Secretary Zuckert to return to Andrews Air Force Base on Nov. 22, 1963, choosing instead to fly to Washington National Airport. Mr. Kelly explains why this is important:



WAS GENERAL LEMAY AT CAMP X ON 11/22/63?

Where was General Curtis LeMay at the time president Kennedy was assassinated?

by Bill Kelly
JFK Countercoup, June 4, 2012

Was he on vacation hunting and fishing in upstate Michigan, as his official biographies attest, or was he at Camp X or at a secret command & control bunker overseeing the Dealey Plaza operation?

An official biography of Air Force General Curtis LeMay reports that at the time President Kennedy was assassinated he was on vacation, hunting and fishing with family members in upstate Michigan.

"Iron Eagle: The Turbulent Life of General Curtis LeMay," by Thomas M. Coffey (p.430) reports that LeMay's wife was from Michigan and he had apparently told his biographer he was in Michigan on vacation and "hurried back to Washington in time for the funeral."

But an Andrews Air Force base log book, that was salvaged from the trash and almost destroyed, indicates that LeMay ordered a special Air Force jet to pick him up in Canada shortly after news of the assassination was widely broadcast, which indicated to some that he wasn’t hunting and fishing in Michigan.

Exploring the possibility that Gen. LeMay attended JFK’s autopsy at Bethesda, as Navy medical corpsman Paul O’Conner attests, Doug Horne, the Chief Analyst for Military Records for the Assassination Records Review Board, made note of LeMay’s presence in Canada rather than Michigan, as his official biography reports.

And Larry Hancock, author of “Someone Would Have Talked” and “Nexus,” also thought it significant and notes: "I was struck by the fact that it (LeMay’s bio) made a big deal of his being so remote that he was out of contact and was not even able to make it back to Washington until the funeral. I don't see that as a minor thing, the book definitely creates the impression that he was not back in Washington that weekend. This really is an important point, if Doug is right and can be verified it looks pretty certain that LeMay was handing out disinformation and there would need to be a good reason for that. After all, it would not be unusual for him to rush back to DC or to some other AF base where he could achieve command and control capability. What seems to me not at all understandable is why he would go to Bethesda, and then lie about it."

From the salvaged Andrews Air Force Base Log Book for 11/22/63, it is officially noted that a special order to pick up LeMay in Toronto was requested at 1:20 PM CST (2:20 PM EST, 1420 GMT) and a special SAM – Special Air Mission C-140 jet took off Andrews at 1446 (1:46 PM CST 2:46 PM EST) to pick him up in Toronto, but after the plane took off (1:50 PM CST 2:50 PM EST) it was redirected to Wiarton, a Canadian Air Force base north of Toronto.

The official internet web site for Wiarton includes a photo of the Air Force base, but also makes tantalizing references to Camp X, the secret training camp for spies used by the British and Americans during World War II, and used as a hideaway for a prominent Soviet defector during the Cold War.

CONTINUED...

http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/search?q=lemay+whereabouts



Why it matters.

Democracy depends on Truth. The Republic depends on Justice. That is, the reality that ours is a nation under law.

Once a criminal is, or criminals are, allowed to go free, Justice has been denied. We find ourselves operating under a falsehood, we are living a Big Lie.

We as a Nation have been on the criminal path since November 22, 1963.

DUers know you don’t need to read a history book or watch a tee vee special to know: It shows. Since 1964 and the Gulf of Tonkin, it’s been a series of wars without end for profit. And in the process, the rich became super-rich -- the richest and most powerful people in history.

Thanks for reading this piece from 2013. Keep spreading the Truth, DU! The next 50 years can be different -- they can be decades of peace and prosperity for ALL: They can be Democratic. Thank you for caring about Justice and Democracy and all that matters, ZenDemocrat.

Recommendations

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Interesting life. His role in Jonestown is certainly eye opening. nt hack89 May 2016 #1
Mark Lane was a Social Justice Warrior before there was such a term. Octafish May 2016 #14
He was also crazy as a loon, at least in regards to his role in Jonestown. hack89 May 2016 #19
The CIA instructed its ''Media Assets'' to demonize Mark Lane in 1967. Octafish May 2016 #31
Not according to your link hack89 May 2016 #33
Links go to the document. Octafish May 2016 #39
I don't know if it it illegal or not. hack89 May 2016 #40
Yes. CIA by law was limited to overseas operations, no domestic operations. Octafish May 2016 #41
Ok. Mark Lane was still a loon however. nt hack89 May 2016 #44
That's what you and CIA wrote. That's not what history shows. Octafish May 2016 #46
Take a close look at his role in Jonestown. Pure batshit crazy to put it mildly. hack89 May 2016 #47
Please show how. Octafish May 2016 #49
Sure hack89 May 2016 #50
Doesn't seem loony, considering CIA works its magic on Wikipedia. Octafish May 2016 #56
So working with a mad man in the jungles to brainwash a bunch of people hack89 May 2016 #60
But Lane didn't do any of that, did he? Octafish May 2016 #61
ok. nt hack89 May 2016 #62
You don't know what you're talking about. milestogo May 2016 #67
He was a genuine conspiracy theory peddling nut case. hack89 May 2016 #69
Not at all. Ask Robert K. Tanenbaum. Octafish May 2016 #84
How about the establishment documents of the CIA. It expressly prohibits operations inside the US. Zen Democrat May 2016 #51
Did he die under "mysterious circumstances?" nt firebrand80 May 2016 #2
It was the BFEE, obviously. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #3
George H.W. Bush should be considered a suspect, based on what he told the FBI. Octafish May 2016 #6
TL;DR Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #7
Nothing says, ''I don't have a clue'' as your post. Octafish May 2016 #8
The BFEE made me do it. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #9
Those are FBI documents. Octafish May 2016 #11
Cool story. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #12
Learn then: JFK had to order Hoover to integrate the FBI. Octafish May 2016 #17
"Important parts of history" Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #18
I'll take Dick Gregory over Dr Hobbitstein of DU any day. Octafish May 2016 #20
We also know you love some Paul Craig Roberts. Dr Hobbitstein May 2016 #21
I've never called him a douche, if that's what you mean. Octafish May 2016 #22
Confidence in the government? rperlberg May 2016 #73
That's the Thing. Octafish May 2016 #74
So you come in here and crap in the thread...stay classy. Rex May 2016 #35
You are the most clueless CS poster on this board. Almost a parody of CS everywhere. nt Logical May 2016 #99
Personal attacks are so you, Logical. Octafish May 2016 #102
oh for god's sake... how pathetic Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #24
There are very pathetic people that post here and support the Bush family. Rex May 2016 #36
Pure unmitigated ignorance. Zen Democrat May 2016 #55
ALCOA! NuclearDem May 2016 #30
He suffered a heart attack. Octafish May 2016 #15
I Never Actually Thought RobinA May 2016 #23
With all respect, I do have a problem with the lone loser theory. Octafish May 2016 #28
I Think RobinA May 2016 #25
This I will tell you: Your life is better for Mark Lane having lived. Octafish May 2016 #94
"expert"? FLPanhandle May 2016 #4
Bertrand Russell respected Mark Lane. Octafish May 2016 #16
Damn. They finally got him. (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #5
Did you hear about Cheney and CIA Assassination cover-up? Octafish May 2016 #29
Hmmmm. Gidney N Cloyd May 2016 #10
Truman criticized CIA after the assassination of JFK. Fired CIA boss Dulles demanded retraction. Octafish May 2016 #45
RIP Mark Lane GreatGazoo May 2016 #13
very interesting yourpaljoey May 2016 #27
They couldn't out-think him, so they had to smear Mark Lane. Octafish May 2016 #70
he lived a long and important life Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #26
He did. Another important eyewitness is still with us: Abraham BOLDEN Octafish May 2016 #63
that's right-- thanks for the reminder. I heard him interviewed a few years back Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #65
His book Plausible Denial is a pretty interestin read. avebury May 2016 #32
Great book. Great case. And E. Howard Hunt was a real piece of wetwork. Octafish May 2016 #86
The funny thing about the Hunt lawsuit is that, based on Hunt's testimony, avebury May 2016 #88
Mark Lane arrives at the pearly gates Capt. Obvious May 2016 #34
Dont give up your day job HOPNOSH May 2016 #37
I thought it was pretty funny (nt) Nye Bevan May 2016 #43
LOL nt Tommy_Carcetti May 2016 #48
Now THAT is a funny joke. nt Dreamer Tatum May 2016 #58
I laughed Fast Walker 52 May 2016 #66
I see the DU children are happy he died, why are they so pathetic Octafish? Rex May 2016 #38
Their pathetic nature is due to their ignorance. Octafish May 2016 #72
Mark Lane was a kook. Archae May 2016 #42
There is NO credible evidence that Oswald shot at JFK, much less killed him. Zen Democrat May 2016 #53
I've studied the murder of JFK since I was 15 years old. Zen Democrat May 2016 #54
What do you want for your 16th birthday? nt Dreamer Tatum May 2016 #59
*snort* NuclearDem May 2016 #64
Lee Harvey Oswald killed Mark Lane!!! Fozzledick May 2016 #68
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I'm a realist and a student of history and our times. Zen Democrat May 2016 #89
You're not very good at recognizing sarcasm though. Fozzledick May 2016 #90
Lane said the only evidence linking Oswald was CE399. Octafish May 2016 #114
Excellent summation. FTR: Gen. LeMay lied about his whereabouts. Octafish May 2016 #115
You compared discussing the assassination of President Kennedy to beating a dead horse. Octafish May 2016 #71
Here. Archae May 2016 #78
Get a copy of Barry and the Boys by Daniel Hopsicker....the story lives on. ViseGrip May 2016 #52
David Ferrie, Barry Seal and Lee Oswald: Patsies or Participants? Octafish May 2016 #105
Sorry dear O-fish….. blm May 2016 #57
Thank you for your kindness, blm. Octafish May 2016 #82
((Octafish)) blm May 2016 #83
It's telling that the members of the Warren Commission are silent about his passing. Kaleva May 2016 #75
Why honor a peddler of conspiratorial BS? YoungDemCA May 2016 #96
The commissioners all have passed. Some staff are still with us. Octafish May 2016 #108
Excellent information, Octafish, thanks for posting. JonLeibowitz May 2016 #76
You are most welcome, JonLeibowitz! I very much appreciate that you understand and care. Octafish May 2016 #113
My condolences. I know from your posts, he was an important figure in your life. MerryBlooms May 2016 #77
Thank you for your kindness, MerryBlooms. Octafish May 2016 #81
K&R!!!!!! burrowowl May 2016 #79
Here's an excellent radio interview with Mr. Lane via Project CENSORED Octafish May 2016 #92
My first memories of Mark Lane was from the 1967 interview Duppers May 2016 #80
Thank you very much, Duppers. Here's what James DiEugenio wrote last week... Octafish May 2016 #110
Wow! Thanks for posting that article link and... Duppers May 2016 #112
This sounds fishy to me. I bet he's still alive. Gomez163 May 2016 #85
Condolences to you & to his family, friends & followers - PAMod May 2016 #87
Thank you, PAMod. Please know I very much appreciate your perspectives. Octafish May 2016 #111
did he say anything about Cruz's father ? Laura PourMeADrink May 2016 #91
I don't know. Do know the guy who did is dead by gunshot under suspicious circumstances. Octafish May 2016 #93
Looks like "they" got another one! YoungDemCA May 2016 #95
Donald Trump, Ted Cruz, and CIA-Cuban “Deep Politics” Octafish May 2016 #100
It's truly sad to see someone who dedicated his life to crackpot "theories" pass away YoungDemCA May 2016 #97
Now THAT is asinine. Octafish May 2016 #101
I ASSUMED MURDERED!!!!!! The truth is out there!!!! nt Logical May 2016 #98
What do you know about Mark Lane? Octafish May 2016 #103
Sounds like a good man, but that does not mean he is right about jfk. Nt Logical May 2016 #104
So why do you have to insult his memory and smear his good name? Octafish May 2016 #109
Dalton Trumbo MinM May 2016 #106
Trumbo's lesson: The Right will do anything to get its way. Octafish May 2016 #107
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