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In reply to the discussion: Ralph Nader: 'Cowering' Democrats face defeat [View all]morningfog
(18,115 posts)149. BULLSHIT! Nader did not "single handedly" get Bush elected. Shame on you for
giving Harris and the SC a pass. WHy would you do that? Do you think Gore v. Bush was correctly decided? Answer that before you dish out single handedly.
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Why isn't he helping now? Instead of just shooting his mouth off? He could be financially
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#201
He doesn't ever support Dems; he criticizes them. And who does this benefit? The Rethugs.
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#232
No one loves Wall Street more than Ralph--he has a very UNPROGRESSIVE stock portfolio.
MADem
Jul 2012
#237
Condemning Nader for something Kerry did as well isn't particularly fair.
mattclearing
Jul 2012
#322
I am condemning Nader for herding idealists away from the Democratic ticket, to benefit his stock
MADem
Jul 2012
#323
When a candidate has to fight a battle on TWO fronts, they have a harder time making gains.
MADem
Jul 2012
#333
If you really want to do that, then start your own thread on the topic and have at it.
MADem
Jul 2012
#359
My only point here is that you don't subject anyone else to the same scrutiny/standards. n/t
mattclearing
Jul 2012
#369
If you want to talk about someone else, fire up a thread about them and let's have at it.
MADem
Jul 2012
#395
Ah yes, "you knew some," so therefore your experience is controlling across the depth and breadth of
MADem
Jul 2012
#428
Why can't you admit that the Democratic ticket helped cause those idealists to go away
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#465
No one is making anyone stay. If you don't like the party--leave. See if you can get a better
MADem
Jul 2012
#473
Name them. Everyone I've talked to -- and I mean face-to-face--talks a great game of complaints,
MADem
Jul 2012
#477
Sometimes it's necessary, when more than one point in your posts needs to be responded to.
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#506
This isn't about Ralph's personal character. It's about the point he's making here
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#467
Sorry, it IS about his personal character, because when you understand his personal character, you
MADem
Jul 2012
#472
Yup, grabbing their ankles whilst accepting the hot beef injection of Wall Street
this is unreal.
Jul 2012
#299
Only in a narrow sense. And he has done precious little to support the case against the
yellowcanine
Jul 2012
#417
They never talked like Nader and invested like Bush, though. Nadar did exactly that. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#344
So, you're saying "Bullshit the stooges with progressive talk/invest like a Republican" is better?
MADem
Jul 2012
#362
Ralph Nader is not a politician. He's a tool of the GOP. Politicians win the occasional contest.
MADem
Jul 2012
#402
They're bound and determined to avoid learning this lesson, it doesn't fit their internal
Egalitarian Thug
Jul 2012
#463
To be fair to Pat Buchanan, he was the first person to sound the alarm and say that he KNEW that
MADem
Jul 2012
#54
Not about his "right." He has every "right." It's all about his shitty, selfish JUDGMENT. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#207
I was in the Middle East and I'd never heard of it before today--it didn't make it over that way ...
MADem
Jul 2012
#295
Didn't he take GOP money, as well? And wasn't there a GOP campaign to funnel money to him to keep
MADem
Jul 2012
#218
Why the focus on Nader, that is my question? We KNOW all the dirty tricks that
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#214
It's not my job to tell a VOTER what to do. There are plenty of "Reagan Democrats" who have been
MADem
Jul 2012
#224
Ralph Nader took money from Republicans so that Republicans could defeat Democrats.
MADem
Jul 2012
#282
Nadar was a big problem--he gave us President Bush, and I don't think we should EVER stop blaming
MADem
Jul 2012
#391
so much vitriol for nader, so little effort put into fighting bush's election theft.
HiPointDem
Jul 2012
#559
Your second image is a laugh riot....since Nader made his millions off of union-busting CISCO. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#225
And Raytheon...and McDonald's. Yeah, Ralph is a real "champion of the people." A con artist. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#233
No it isn't--it's a friendly notice to someone who is new, so they don't get PPR'd.
MADem
Jul 2012
#427
I love how you are concerned with being fair to Pat Buchanan. Comical. n/t
mattclearing
Jul 2012
#337
What's comical is your insistence that Ralph Nader's POV is progressive, when his conduct and
MADem
Jul 2012
#345
With Al Gore, we knew what we were getting--a corporate (if not friendly, not unfriendly) Democrat.
MADem
Jul 2012
#381
Gore didn't even win his own home state, FFS. Is that Nader's fault too? The
coalition_unwilling
Jul 2012
#84
It's amazing how some people forget that Al Gore won the presidential election.
BlueCaliDem
Jul 2012
#234
And Nader took away enough votes to make it be closer than it should have been.
uppityperson
Jul 2012
#188
well they cant stop fox from lying to the public so idk how they LET boner cand cantor peddle
leftyohiolib
Jul 2012
#5
And the candidate nominated against him was undoubtedly the most right-wing Dem available
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#561
What is the point of saying that? And are you blaming liberals for Jindal for some reason?
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#567
Yes, it's true. If all the miscast votes were allowed to stand, but the Nader voters
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#79
If all of the miscast votes for Buchanan had rightfully gone to Gore, Gore would have won
morningfog
Jul 2012
#85
So? That was a drop in the bucket compared to Nader's 95,000 votes, which he won by lying.
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#129
It isn't lazy to claim that. It's practical, common sense. Nader and many of his followers were
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#226
I don't give SCOTUS a free pass. What those 5 did was despicable. But that's what
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#293
He did nothing illegal. Katherine Harris purging black voters was a far greater offense.
Selatius
Jul 2012
#223
He LEGALLY helped Bush. Does that really make you feel better? That a so-called
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#228
A "progressive" who owned stock in Raytheon, McDonald's and union busting CISCO, for starters!
MADem
Jul 2012
#235
With all due respect, I see no moral equivalence here. One intentionally disenfranchised thousands.
Selatius
Jul 2012
#469
Ralph invested in war stocks, Walmart stocks, McDonald's stocks, Big Oil stocks,
MADem
Jul 2012
#365
So if Nader was only in it to get Bush elected, who was he trying to get
A Simple Game
Jul 2012
#118
BULLSHIT! Nader did not "single handedly" get Bush elected. Shame on you for
morningfog
Jul 2012
#149
There could be said to be many deciding factors; but the only PROGRESSIVE who helped Bush
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#81
So, why place the blame on the "only progressive", when Harris and the SC were the
morningfog
Jul 2012
#151
Because, in this situation, only the progressive can be said to have betrayed his own cause.
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#184
He is no progressive--he made sure the "winners" of the elections where he fouled the waters were
MADem
Jul 2012
#321
President Obama is not an idiot. He has voiced his objection and acknowledges he has to play in the
MADem
Jul 2012
#373
What a total misinterpretation of Bvar's post. Your rage is becoming disturbing, frankly.
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#411
I am challenging anyone who believes that Ralph Nader, Right Wing Tool, represents "working class,
MADem
Jul 2012
#439
Well said. The only thing that keeps me in the Dem Party right now, are the people I know
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#410
Agreed. The vitriol expressed towards Nader seems to be unmatched by the same posters re Republicans
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#503
Then why are you on DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND? If you're not a Democrat, then leave!
Liberal_Stalwart71
Jul 2012
#450
Maybe if extremest fuckwads weren't constantly dividing our party we would
Motown_Johnny
Jul 2012
#10
Precisely. It's not like he needs the money, he's a one percenter and a hypocrite about the source
MADem
Jul 2012
#294
Nader's own post shows that he wants Republicans, not Democrats, to be defeated
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#18
I always ask, would you rather have the Blue Dogs and a Speaker Pelosi right now,
Ikonoklast
Jul 2012
#36
That's a pretty simple concept that too many of the puritopians fail to grasp...nt
SidDithers
Jul 2012
#44
hey, it's Christmas in July.. doddering 'ol ralph has provided a day's worth of fun for the resident
dionysus
Jul 2012
#64
how is the estate these days? wadsworth is spending a fortune keeping the grounds green lately.
dionysus
Jul 2012
#96
You're defending a 1 percenter who's all about himself, and using an offensive reference to do so.
MADem
Jul 2012
#297
The OP is all about Ralph conning the sheep-masses. I suggest you take your own advice.
MADem
Jul 2012
#312
Keep supporting Ralph. By so doing, you are supporting a GOP candidate and making Ralph rich.
MADem
Jul 2012
#351
.? What does that mean? Here's some light reading for you re: Progressive Ralph...
MADem
Jul 2012
#401
Anti-Union Ralph Nader fools the gullible sooo easily. They keep his little family-run empire in
Ikonoklast
Jul 2012
#34
And on the other hand, he's whining at CISCO because his stock has fallen in value; he wants a
MADem
Jul 2012
#239
nader is the one who aided the fascists, making him the vichey progressive
arely staircase
Jul 2012
#48
no im saying ralph nader deserves much of the credit for the dystopia that was the cheney years
arely staircase
Jul 2012
#130
Well, Ralph had stock in Halliburton, General Dynamics, and Raytheon, for starters.
MADem
Jul 2012
#300
In one or 2 sentences, please state the democrats vision/agenda for America. thank you :-) nt
msongs
Jul 2012
#28
Health care/social safety net/equality. GOP? Rich get richer, fuck you poor folks. NT
MADem
Jul 2012
#327
Think about the millions he has in union-busting CISCO stock--that'll tamp down those pangs, too. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#210
I hate to say anything good about that loser, but many of the things he says about us democrats,
demosincebirth
Jul 2012
#61
I think he suffers from an inflated-ego, but HE'S RIGHT about this. They have nothing to lose.
patrice
Jul 2012
#69
Show me a politician who does NOT have an inflated ego with narcissistic tendencies.
bvar22
Jul 2012
#302
Yep. This is why we NEED public campaign finance and instant-run-off-voting. nt
patrice
Jul 2012
#531
I have a link that will do. Ralph Nader was a war profiteer, steering votes to the war candidate.
MADem
Jul 2012
#335
Gore did not equal Bush. That was a lie. And can you tell me why Nader ran again in 2004 and
libinnyandia
Jul 2012
#357
I love seeing the clueless defenders of that Hypocritical One Percenter/GOP Corporate Tool. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#298
Why? Because Dean is trying to help. What's Nader doing to help fight the Rethugs?
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#202
"Twelve percent of Florida Democrats (over 200,000) voted for George Bush" -San Francisco Chronicle
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jul 2012
#110
Ok, and how many of those did so because "there's no difference between Bush and Gore"?
jeff47
Jul 2012
#498
So, maybe Gore should have set out to prove enough of difference and captured the Left.
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jul 2012
#505
Anybody should be allowed to run. The point is he would not have had any support.
limpyhobbler
Jul 2012
#142
Oh great. Now you're running the risk that they are going to trash Truman and Wellstone.
AnotherMcIntosh
Jul 2012
#175
He is a wealthy, secretive, lawbreaking liar who gambles with his non-profit money and doesn't pay
MADem
Jul 2012
#398
Bingo RN got it in one, If the Democratic candidates would campaign on a Progressive Populous
Vincardog
Jul 2012
#122
What Nader fails to recognize is a large demographic in this country are made up of racist right
still_one
Jul 2012
#132
I blame Nader, I also blame Gore, the supreme court, and the ballots the confused many people
still_one
Jul 2012
#173
Spoken like someone who's won a lot of elected offices. Oh, wait. He hasn't won ANY! nt
Honeycombe8
Jul 2012
#148
Do you ever criticize Repubs, Ralph, or do you just silently take their money?
great white snark
Jul 2012
#154
"Craven and cruel corporatist Republicans" sounds like it might possibly be a criticism...
Fumesucker
Jul 2012
#158
"Craven and cruel corporatist Republicans" sounds like it might possibly be a criticism...
Fumesucker
Jul 2012
#174
The guy has a point, in that it would be great to have a real liberal/progressive party in
quinnox
Jul 2012
#162
100%. One of the last that changed the world for the better, and he is reviled for it.
Egalitarian Thug
Jul 2012
#192
I'm pretty sure a lot of people just see him as a useful idiot for the right.
joshcryer
Jul 2012
#221
Useful to the GOP and no idiot--his war profiteering stocks made him wealthy. nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#343
"Real" progressives take cash from GOP donors and own stock in Raytheon, etc? Who knew?? nt
MADem
Jul 2012
#240
I started wondering about him when he stiffed a crowd of several hundred several years ago
patrice
Jul 2012
#530
Great! Tips from the "liberal" asshole who called my president an Uncle Tom.
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#183
Agree. + The words "liberal" and "conservative" are practically meaningless anymore. Reclaim them???
patrice
Jul 2012
#533
Folks like Ralph Nader have perverted the term "liberal", which is why I no longer claim it.
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#536
Why isn't Nader sending his troops to help Dems in the fight for progressive values?
pnwmom
Jul 2012
#198
Because Faux won't pay him those sweet appearance fees to tout for the left side of the equation.
MADem
Jul 2012
#227
"A democratic may be different from a republican, but both parties are the same"
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#346
Where do you get that crap? Nader is a whining spoiler who managed to fuck over progressives
MADem
Jul 2012
#274
You are deliberately being obtuse. Nader decried the government war machine, he pretended to be in
MADem
Jul 2012
#332
We LOVE us some "ex" Republicans, though. Just change your letter, Ralph--those
Romulox
Jul 2012
#261
I mean, some guy posted a long OP the other day from a guy who "converted" to an "ex" Pub--in 2007!
Romulox
Jul 2012
#262
Here ya go: "Ex" (circa 2007!) Republican calls for "purity", stifling of dissent. 108 DUers agree!
Romulox
Jul 2012
#285
You know, some people do see that as prioritizing a dynamic process, not stifling, because some
patrice
Jul 2012
#534
One thing so sad about 2000 is that Al Gore seems to have learned so little from it. He still
Romulox
Jul 2012
#287
Al Gore wasn't playing the scold. Nader was scolding the Dems while holding a GOP stock portfolio.
MADem
Jul 2012
#325
Al Gore is worth $100 million, a good deal of which was made via gov't connections. nt
Romulox
Jul 2012
#413
Yes, and Al never pretended to be a po'boy, living in a rooming house with a bathroom down the hall,
MADem
Jul 2012
#432
Al is an environmental scold who uses more energy than 10 average families. He also SELLS carbon
Romulox
Jul 2012
#447
It's contemptible, hypocritical behavior that completely vitiates Al's ability to scold others. nt
Romulox
Jul 2012
#490
He has been wealthy since he started insider trading in the seventies--and maybe earlier.
MADem
Jul 2012
#399
Sorry, but the Nader hatred while interesting, still has zero to do with the theft of the
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#403
I differ as do many others. I invite your careful attention to that sourced document I provided to
MADem
Jul 2012
#404
I have read many expert analysis of the theft of the 2000 election and Nader barely
sabrina 1
Jul 2012
#405
I have all those stocks in my portfolio now also. Does that make me a bad person too.??
Hotler
Jul 2012
#380
They are very young, and/or very naive. They don't know his horrible, anti-worker, anti-union
MADem
Jul 2012
#443
that about sums it up. Dems in party leadership seem loathe to call bullshit on the GOP
yurbud
Jul 2012
#372
He's no liberal--he's an authoritarian ass who gets stock tips from his GOP pals.
MADem
Jul 2012
#393
If we used one-tenth of this energy generated by the vitriol expressed here for Ralph Nader
amb123
Jul 2012
#414
The vitriol is directed at *people who share Nader's beliefs*. The ones who say "Fuck Nader" are
Romulox
Jul 2012
#415
Is there a possibility that the revulsion is for the "framers" as opposed to the "framing"?
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#422
We wouldn't have had Bush in 2000 if Gore had run an anti-corporate domination campaign.
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#508
Regurgitated "Naderisms" and his apologists have absolutely no effect on me. Sorry.
Tarheel_Dem
Jul 2012
#525
UNREC. People who say FUCK RALPH NADER know that he was and continues to be a tool of the GOP.
MADem
Jul 2012
#442
So then Nader should be building his party of progressives that have a chance to beat
Liberal_Stalwart71
Jul 2012
#416
And that's why the Greens all but banished him from the party. Many of them realized that he was
Liberal_Stalwart71
Jul 2012
#449
It's pretty clear that there wasn't much love there, particularly when his own VP candidate was
MADem
Jul 2012
#460
Given that there doesn't even seem to be a third-party presidential campaign this year
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#454
Yes there is. The Greens just aren't having Big Mouth Ralph ruin their reputations anymore.
MADem
Jul 2012
#462
Just so you know, I actually agree with your critique of the Greens on organizational matters
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#476
I disagree with you re: Wellstone and Kennedy, but that is an argument for another day.
MADem
Jul 2012
#486
Not in my universe, and I've been at this (when I was in USA, anyway) since the Vietnam era.
MADem
Jul 2012
#548
Well, I will take you at your word, but I've seen plenty of snark--in this thread--about centrists
MADem
Jul 2012
#552
I am not "demanding" anything. I simply don't care to waste my time on a GOP corporate tool and
MADem
Jul 2012
#562
What this is "about" is a load of shit stirring by a GOP tool. There is no distinction to be made.
MADem
Jul 2012
#564
Obama just ratfucked that campaign by putting Cory Booker, the Bain apologist, on the platform comm.
Ken Burch
Jul 2012
#570
I know only that you're interested in touting a guy who has twice been a mouthpiece for the GOP.
MADem
Jul 2012
#573
Nader is like Frankenstein, they roll him out of his crypt every 4 years to try and scare everyone.
Major Hogwash
Jul 2012
#483
Hmmm...looks like it's time for Ralphie to awaken from his four year slumber
Downtown Hound
Jul 2012
#535
I think you'll find that most people here agree with Nader's positions either a lot or some
Downtown Hound
Jul 2012
#547
As a member of the Democratic Party of Wisconsin/DPW I know those of you that solely blame Nader
bobthedrummer
Jul 2012
#540
I don't blame Nader solely but there's no question that he siphoned off votes for Gore
Cary
Jul 2012
#551
Welcome to DU, Cary-it was a COUP-different from November 22, 1963--friendly fascism style. n/t
bobthedrummer
Jul 2012
#566