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loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
35. This was a he said she said
Tue Nov 21, 2017, 04:54 PM
Nov 2017

We'll never know the truth. It's tricky, but the liberal position is to believe the woman

"There is a crucial tension between "believe survivors" and the "Juanita Broaddrick is lying" position of some Clinton defenders, lacking further information. When Hillary Clinton tweeted during the campaign that "Every survivor of sexual assault deserves to be heard, believed, and supported," it’s reasonable to ask if that’s true of Juanita Broaddrick, too."

A more balanced position is to admit that it's he said she an acceptable truth could only be possible if they both shared the same story. It's not going to happen. We don't know.

Yes, the GOP was relentless in trying to dig up as much dirt as possible. In the end, that there was something to find is his own fault. His denial resulted in a horrifying rounds of questioning where Monica Lewinsky had to confirm her voice listening to hours and hours of recordings that she described as her worst self. If that humiliation weren't enough she had to walk through a world where people who saw or talked with her knew embarrassing details that noone would want the public to know. He could have prevented that. Lewinsky takes full responsibility for her part in the relationship. And points out that the victimization came when she was scapegoated and humiliated as she listened to those tapes, and publicly. She had to stand in check out lines where the sold tabloids with her face on the front page. Imagine applying for a job knowing that the HR dept. knows the story. She had no choice but to tell her story and she had to navigate a world that condemned her, while he had a team of supporters who ignored the possibility that it might be a painful ordeal for her, while he went on to be impeached but never lost support of a partisan team.

It's possible to take a second look now that we are beginning to see the frequency of sexual advances and and discomforting suggestive actions without bringing politics into the discussion. The women who are coming forward voluntarily are revealing the protective mechanisms that have permitted powerful men to sexually abuse women. Giving some thought to how system has protected sexual abusers includes re-evaluating our public response to various incidents because it has been accepted as a fact of life.

Bill Clinton could contribute significantly to the challenge to the system that accepted his own behaviors when a woman (who I assume he cared about on some level) contributed to the kind of humiliation he knew she experienced and she still has to live with.

His vague apology didn't mention the women who were dragged into the disaster of his own making. Recognizing that would go a long way towards dismantling to patriarchal arrangement that oppressses women economically and socially.

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My instinctive reaction to people's body language, responses, and reactions have rarely hlthe2b Nov 2017 #1
I disagree, Big Blue Marble Nov 2017 #4
I have doubt in both directions... Generally speaking I default to believing the victims. hlthe2b Nov 2017 #10
There should be no *default* into believing anyone. Just a good faith duty to investigate. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #12
Stop adding to what I said. I said my default was to believe them, but that does not preclude a hlthe2b Nov 2017 #15
A default position is a default position. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #16
No position is to discount the accuser. Benefit of the doubt is to believe them until the facts, hlthe2b Nov 2017 #17
And Trump's stunt with these women at the second debate... maddiemom Nov 2017 #23
"There should be no *default* into believing anyone. Just a good faith duty to investigate." LenaBaby61 Nov 2017 #30
The tragedy of Broaddrick Big Blue Marble Nov 2017 #22
I've read that she did MichMary Nov 2017 #7
That is not what I said at all. Very disingenous of you to say that MichMary hlthe2b Nov 2017 #9
There's no hard evidence she told anyone contemperaneously. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #11
I never believed her or Kathleen Wiley. Dawson Leery Nov 2017 #18
What about when Hillary said thank you Nevernose Nov 2017 #2
"Bannon is working on it. Good things are coming." Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #3
Again. Why should I believe this woman? LenaBaby61 Nov 2017 #27
Come on now. It's not like Steve Bannon has ever been accused of any violence towards wom-- Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #28
"Come on now. It's not like Steve Bannon has ever been accused of any violence towards women." LenaBaby61 Nov 2017 #31
She also doesn't believe any other victim RockaFowler Nov 2017 #5
Or perhaps her lawyer says that. nt Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #6
Yep. It's a trap. kcr Nov 2017 #8
I always figured that Monica had a plan... Wounded Bear Nov 2017 #13
I have no idea what Monica wanted. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #14
I think she was like a groupie. She should have been allowed to keep it a secret JI7 Nov 2017 #19
My issue with Broaddrick and Bill Clinton's other women. politicaljunkie41910 Nov 2017 #20
I totally agree with you.. rainlillie Nov 2017 #21
if i remember correctly.... freddyvh Nov 2017 #24
This woman has made Clinton's rape allegation her friggin CAREER. ENOUGH SAID. Kirk Lover Nov 2017 #25
Yup. Was she lying then or is she lying now? N/t TexasBushwhacker Nov 2017 #29
The Dalai Lama??? guillaumeb Nov 2017 #26
If Ken Starr didn't find her credible Bettie Nov 2017 #32
He didn't find Kathleen Willey credible, either. kskiska Nov 2017 #34
And he was looking for something, Bettie Nov 2017 #37
And I'll just add this for good measure. Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #33
This was a he said she said loyalsister Nov 2017 #35
I have never believed her Skittles Nov 2017 #36
If it happened, is it so far fetched that she would gravitate to his political enemies? Baconator Nov 2017 #38
Perhaps but it's her cavalier dismissal of allegations of abuse against other people that stands out Tommy_Carcetti Nov 2017 #39
Depends on the motive I suppose... Baconator Nov 2017 #40
Neither of the Clinton holds public office anymore standingtall Nov 2017 #41
If she's motivated by revenge... Baconator Nov 2017 #42
She's a discredited liar. Hope karma catches up to her real soon. beaglelover Nov 2017 #43
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